Warrantless search

The way I understand it, if the Warden is operating in the capacity of game management, he can access personal property without permission or a warrant and doesn't need probable cause of a crime being committed to do so. That can be to check hunting licenses, access adjoining property or run a check station. Once he has access to your property and he finds a law has been violated, he can either fine you or arrest you. It doesn't even have to be hunting related.

Now, if he's operating as a law enforcement officer and there's a suspicion you're running an illegal poaching and game processing operation and he wants to raid your place, he would need a judge to issue a warrant for that.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I've know it to be for decades.

Anyone posting hereon ever hear the term "under color of law"?

For the record, I am a three decade plus LEO/CLEO. And I am here to tell you that less "exigent circumstance" exists you NEED a warrant to enter into someones' abode.........-No game warden/city officer/deputy or even an FBI agent has license to do otherwise.......oh yeah, you can, but then it gets dicey........you have just opened yourself and your agency to a wealth of action..........none of which you will like. For your edification I suggest you google and read up on chapters 1983 and 84 of the USC............That civil rights violation action that the Justice Dept. has undertaken in the recent unpleasantries in Minneapolis is a salient example..............and illegally entering a home under 'color of law' would result in an officer putting himself (possibly his agency as well) in similar circumstances And to top it off any evidence seized illicitly cannot be used in a prosecution.

I am not an attorney but Folks I have been thru the fire, I have been sued as well as have had to testify in at least one USC case..........it ain't fun being on the receiving end and any LEO with half a brain knows that well!!

I've always had a pretty good experience with NY DEC officers..... Except the one guy telling me I couldn't join because of my tattoo.

jmorris said:

Game wardens around here (Texas) have always been the most “investigative” around here too. More jurisdiction than other law enforcement one normally encounters. Even back when I was a teenager, they would drive onto our property in the middle of the night to see what we were doing. They would ask if we were hunting despite the fact the amount of fire we had been laying down having driven any animal that could hear well away from our location.

I have heard story’s from friends where they go onto property’s and check for license’s, plugs (if applicable) and even VIN #’s on off road equipment, all “just because”.

The concept comes from the State “owning” all of the game animals in the woods and fish in the streams. We can only take off our land that we own (I guess we really just “rent” it from them because if we don’t pay the State every year for it in taxes, they will come take it away from us) what they allow. Game wardens are the tool for enforcement of those laws.

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Oh, I initially read it as "Game wardens are sometimes tools." When I was younger I did a lot more fishing than I did hunting and have been harassed by game wardens unnecessarily many times. Have been running trot lines at 2 am and have had them sneak up to the boat dock to try to catch me doing something illegal. Have had them wake me up in the campground and toss my truck because someone reported a gunshot coming from a pickup matching the description of mine. I didn't even own a firearm at the time so said go ahead. I think it made him even madder when he didn't find anything.

They seem more cordial to me now that I'm older than many of them, but even this last season I had them follow me and my 79 year old Dad deep into the national forest to see if they could catch us at any violations. Don't mess with Texas, indeed. How about don't harass people just because you can.

I have done a lot of fishing at the Texas City Dike and have seen the game wardens give out a lot of tickets to well to do looking fishermen/boaters, but never to groups of obvious illegal aliens no matter how egregious the violations. I mean no offense to any game wardens or friends/family of wardens on here. These are just my personal experiences.

See a lot of one sided stories here, along with examples of "I heard from a friend of a friend". Are there some bad Wardens? Of course, just like there a a few "bad cops". But for every one of those "bad" ones, odds are there are 25 good wardens that have been observing you all these years you didn't even know about. Wardens have a tough job. Most everyone they stop are already ticked off and during hunting season they are armed. Like I said earlier, hunt or fish in a popular spot and the odds are good that even if you don't see a Warden....they see you. Watch a few episodes of "North Woods Law" and see the clientele they deal with everyday. Always an excuse. Always a lie or two. Dirtballs. Most good folks get a break. If you hunt or fish, expect to deal with Wardens doing their job. Don't like it....take up golf instead.

I have a deep despise for violators. Poachers are the bane of any of us responsible and law abiding outdoorsmen. Wish my state could afford more wardens.

buck460XVR said:

Wish my state could afford more wardens.

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As do I. At least here, the state has married the best attributes of biologists and law enforcement to do an amazing job balancing wildlife and an incessant thirst for housing. I don't know how they do it, but they certainly are spread thin.

Much, much misinformation presented here in this thread!

An INSPECTION is NOT a SEARCH!

Huge difference! Both in scope and authority under law.
Second misunderstanding is in the significance of “ strict liability statutes “.
Georgia and Federal wildlife as well as boating/maritime law statutes are both written within the scope of the foregoing principles.
The Tennessee officers will still be able to conduct “INSPECTIONS” for boating and wildlife enforcement under Federal authority. The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the States and U.S. Coastguard authority to conduct safety inspections. (Life preservers, fire extinguishers, ventilation, engine intakes and exhaust to include anti pollution devices and marine sanitation devices! ). As well as fisheries inspection as to faithful compliance with regards to daily, seasonal, and possession limits of wildlife species.
Any contraband discovered is admissible in evidence!

The Tennessee court ruling will in all likelihood be overturned on appeal.

A “Search” conducted outside of an “inspection” has always required a search warrant, which are pitiful easy “(though possibly time demanding) to obtain....
There is over 200yrs of legal precedent regarding these principles.

For a while road block checks were not allowed. Once retested in the courts, the previous decision was overturned/rescinded...

Or, as we used to say: just business as usual...

Re: private property!

Remember, the air, running water, and wildlife resources are not held in private ownership. (Even includes mineral rights, too).
Therefore, the natural resources are held in trust by the state, and in certain instances the Federal Government. So, in its sovereign capacity, the government reserves the right to regulate the taking or use of the natural resources.
So, an inspection to determine faithful compliance isn’t a “search” .

Strict liability means; the state doesn’t have to prove that an individual “intended” to commit a prohibited act. Merely that a prohibited act was committed is sufficient to sustain a conviction of a violation. ie: possession of an illegally taken wildlife species. LE doesn’t have to establish an intent to break the law...

Like most of these discussions, clear as mud!

I haven’t hunted for well over 20 years, but used to hunt a good bit in Montana and Alaska. I never broke any laws nor
did I ever let anyone I hunted with, should they suggested doing anything shady.

But I truly learned to dislike game wardens. I originally felt sorry for them and respected them for what they did, but after seeing several pull some very low crap, I have zero respect for them until they prove upright.

One example, I was hunting with a buddy on a cold November day. We’d stopped for lunch at a old fire ring. We built a fire, put on a pot of tea, and were eating sandwiches and gorp when a warden walked into the camp.
Our rifles were unloaded and leaning on a log. We were both armed with pistols.

We offered the guy a sandwich and cup of tea, which he accepted. We were all standing around the fire when my buddy said he was gonna go answer natures call. He took off his long hunting jacket and orange vest, walked away behind a tree, and did his business. When he came back, he resumed drinking his tea without his jacket. The warden finished his tea, pulled out his ticket book, and proceeded to write my friend a ticket for not having on proper blaze orange.

I asked him if he was serious, and he said he was. I went with my friend to court and my friend told the judge what happened and that I would corroborate the story. Judge threw the case out and admonished the warden. But that kind of crap happened all the time.

I have a few other stories I could tell…just total crap. I don’t think most wardens are probably bad, but I sure seemed to run into the biggest clowns.

We had one episode back in the 90's while hunting in Missouri. A friend and I were staying at a friend's cabin in the middle of 500 acres and had gone to the store after hunting hours. Dave had taken a bird in Arkansas the week before and had some feathers to give to the landowner's wife for decorating. As luck would have it, a game warden was at the store and saw the fan in the back seat of Dave's truck. The third degree resulted after that. After he found out that we were camping at my friend's he wanted to search it. He told us that he didn't have to have warrant and followed us back to the cabin. That man went through the cabin, refrigerator, and an outbuilding before he left disappointed.

citizenconn said:

Don't mess with Texas, indeed. How about don't harass people just because you can.

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While there are law enforcement that became so just so they can mess with people, we are lucky that’s not why all of them did so.

I suppose we could do away with them all together if we had no laws to enforce. I’ve seen footage of what happens when law enforcement takes no measure to enforce the law. Not pretty.

usaral63 said:

Anyone posting hereon ever hear the term "under color of law"?

For the record, I am a three decade plus LEO/CLEO. And I am here to tell you that less "exigent circumstance" exists you NEED a warrant to enter into someones' abode.........-No game warden/city officer/deputy or even an FBI agent has license to do otherwise.......oh yeah, you can, but then it gets dicey........you have just opened yourself and your agency to a wealth of action..........none of which you will like. For your edification I suggest you google and read up on chapters 1983 and 84 of the USC............That civil rights violation action that the Justice Dept. has undertaken in the recent unpleasantries in Minneapolis is a salient example..............and illegally entering a home under 'color of law' would result in an officer putting himself (possibly his agency as well) in similar circumstances And to top it off any evidence seized illicitly cannot be used in a prosecution.

I am not an attorney but Folks I have been thru the fire, I have been sued as well as have had to testify in at least one USC case..........it ain't fun being on the receiving end and any LEO with half a brain knows that well!!

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One thing to remember even if is raining cats and dogs outside if you get asked something like can I step inside to get out of the weather you just invited a search of your dwelling

GW has the most power and least red tape restriction than any LE.

Most are really good people. A few were some of the most prolific outlaws and poachers (know the tricks and his to catch them), a few are just power hungry jerks.

I have encountered many of the good.
Know 2 of the reformed.
Dealt with 1 jerk and filed complaint. Command dealt with problem, immediately and strongly.

in my 60 odd years hunting and fishing i ran into a few wardens, most were ok. but i ones i remember mosts were the pricks of misery.

I remember when I was a kid growing up in NH, we used to have to wear our fishing license outside in a little see through pouch that you pinned to your jacket or hat. My grandfather always wore his on the back of his fishing vest. He said it was because the game agents in our area would normally approach from behind and if it was visible on your back, they would back off without bothering you.

I didn’t know they were still a thing, but this is what I’m talking about…

I've been hunting and fishing for over 70 years and never encountered a game warden.

My 65 year old mother was harassed by a Colorado officer who accused her of letting my Dad fill her limit of trout. She was resting in the pickup when he confronted her. She was wearing hip boots, in possession of the correct license, had a fully rigged fly rod resting against the truck. He searched the cooler, which held under the individual bag limit as did my Dad's creel.

Really upset my mom and ironic because my dad was a supporter of game laws and to the best of my knowledge, never exceed a bag limit or violated any other regulation. He hammered obedience to game laws into my head from the days I started hunting and fishing.

I guess what really turned me off from game wardens is basically two things…

1. The ones I came across all very much were “you are guilty unless you prove to me you are innocent…”

No matter that I always greet law enforcement officers with a friendly word, open hands, and willing to show whatever documents are applicable, the game wardens always seemed to come across like I was doing something illegal. Totally opposite from most every cop I’ve ever dealt with.

and

2. The stuff I heard from state biologists…. I used to ice fish a lot. It was very common for biologists to walk up pulling a sled and ask to check your fish. I always greeted them by pulling out my wallet and license, but they never wanted to see it. They just wanted to weigh and measure fish, ask about baits, and would usually ask to open a few up to look at belly contents. I’d cooperate with all requests and they would normally chat about stuff like best baits, areas, etc. one time, I mentioned to the guys (there were two sometimes) that they were easier to deal with then the wardens. They looked at each other and laughed. “We get that a lot” was the response. One guy who’d checked me in several occasions even warned me out of the blue to avoid a certain warden who he referred to as “the red headed butthole”. I laughed because I knew who he was talking about.

I am and was not referring to Tennessee law....or that of any state......USC is a FEDERAL LAW.......If you violate it YOU...the individual officer/agency.....are in violation of one's civil rights. YOU, and likely your agency are liable both criminally and civilly.........what your state court says matters not in the least...............................You need to read 1983 and 1984!

I have had very good interactions with Game Wardens in Wisconsin. As @buck460XVR mentioned Wardens are spread to thin. I welcome the fact that they can enter property and I hunt private property. They neither have the time or resources to go into private land without evidence or a tip that game laws have been violated.