<joke> To Hell With Your Science/Pertinent Information to My Query /s

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twofewscrews

twofewscrews

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Location
Rochester, NY
Lately I've been very displeased with the science, or lack thereof, being displayed by members of the gun community/THR. When I ask, what will happen if I load a 9mm to .556 pressures and triple the weight of the bullet, people just look at me like I'm an idiot. No one tries anything I suggest. I don't have much schooling or anything but as I remember it the scientific method is as follows: you pose a question, develop a theory, and get someone, preferably someone you don't like, don't know, or is too poor to sue you, to test said theory.

What happened to us?

We used to be pioneers, titans of mastering our fear and exploding things close to our face. Nothing feels me with as much joy and fear as loading up a bullpup shotgun with the biggest, bestest, most powerful rounds I can find and pumping rounds out into the wild blue yonder. Now all we do is sit around doing maths instead of trying new and dangerous things like loading 9mm to .556 pressure and tripling the weight of the bullet. Like yes in theory, and according to math, its a very bad idea, but how do you really know what will happen unless you try it yourself? Where is our scientific spirit? /s

In all seriousness, I'm constantly amazed at the amount of information available on THR. Ask a question, stupid or smart, and within hours you can expect a well reasoned response to your question. We don't all live in states where firearms are common, available, or appreciated. Those of us living in major urban areas/non rural areas often lack access to suitable land for testing ammunition. THR gives those who cannot compare one ammo to another (penetration, expansion, accuracy), who lack land or resources, who lack access to a workshop, who lack proper experience or information about hunting, machining or general firearms knowledge, a place to find all of the above. THR and its members, I salute you.

Happy July 4th weekend everyone.
Have fun, stay safe.
Go make some boom booms
 
I will put you in touch with some of the knuckle draggers and mouth breathers at the new "tactical" gun range my Dad joined us up to after our beloved long time range, Triple C in Cresson, TX, was closed down (sigh....)

I see the (un)scientific method being tested every time I go out to that place. I've also developed reflexes faster than when I was in the service because at least the guys shooting at me back them probably had some formal training in the operation of their firearms beyond the bullet comes out the pointy end. I've gotten flagged so many times on the firing line there I could open a flag store. Bullets whizzing over the berms of tactical bays to land God knows where. So far I haven't left with more holes than I came with, but there's always next time.

I don't know if you have Academy where you are, but I bet you could recruit some of the Right Stuff there on weekends, too. Maybe its a Texas thing.
 
THR is a generalist forum. We do have certain members who know enough to really get into the details of wildcattig, but there aren’t a whole lot of them here. What this forum is not (at least as far as I’ve seen) is a scientific based forum where we actually form a hypothesis and then test it. You seem to be unhappy that this forum is not something that it never claimed to be.

Go find a wildcatting forum and I’m sure you’ll get a lot of good answers. Or, better yet, go out and actually learn the math and physics behind internal ballistics and then learn the machining side of things and go build a gun to shoot this new round you want.



Anyway, to give you some frame for an ultra heavy 9mm loaded to higher pressure… standard 9x19 is ~35k psi (per SAAMI) and a .223 is ~ 55k psi.

The closest round to 9x19 that is 55k psi is 9x23, which is pushing a 124gr bullet at roughly 1450 fps. Put that in a 9x19 case and you essentially have the 9mm Major round used in USPSA.

Putting a ~350gr bullet on there gets you close to .338 Spectre but I think that’s around 9mm pressures. .300 Blk is at the right pressures, but larger case and smaller bullet. I’d expect the round to be close to a hot .338 Spectre, but it’s probably still going to be either subsonic or just barely supersonic.

There’s also no way you’ll be able to fit a ~350gr bullet in a 9x19 case and get it to fit in a handgun.
 
Someone missed the joke.;)


And I disagree. There have been many myth-busting threads with very sound process, across a myriad subjects related to firearms and their loading. @LiveLife being definitely not the least of the contributors to our sciences.


twofewscrews said:
Now all we do is sit around doing maths instead of trying new and dangerous things like loading 9mm to .556 pressure and tripling the weight of the bullet.
Click to expand...
You’ll put your eye out, kid!:D
But really, isn’t that just a 35 Whelen, or are we sticking with a pistol case?;)
 
twofewscrews said:
To Hell With Your Science ... Now all we do is sit around doing maths instead of trying new and dangerous things
Click to expand...
We no longer have to "reinvent the wheel" because there is the archiving of the collective knowledge base related to shooting/reloading on the internet part of which THR represents. And the "pioneering/exploration" spirit is not dead hence why we have things like 9mm Major that is receiving growing public interest/acceptance from those that pushed the limits of boundaries to be included in movies like John Wick 3.

twofewscrews said:
how do you really know what will happen unless you try it yourself? Where is our scientific spirit?
Click to expand...
Alive and well. :)

Demi-human said:
And I disagree. There have been many myth-busting threads with very sound process, across a myriad subjects related to firearms and their loading. @LiveLife being definitely not the least of the contributors to our sciences.
Click to expand...
Many THR members push/test things related to shooting/reloading to the point of failure/breaking ... It is what we do and what "defines" us as curious human beings ... Now with improved load data, we just do it within the limits of current published load data or reference more conservative load data to "start out" our load test/powder workup, but not always.
  • During the "Great Shortage", I was volunteered by my component group buy to test new "untested" Promo that was claimed to burn at Red Dot burn rate. Having Glock 22/23/27 40-9mm conversion barrels with thicker chamber walls, I proceeded to develop and test various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP/45Colt/.38Spl loads using Red Dot load data with great success that "reblended" Promo that meters well is now my designated general purpose 9mm/45ACP powder, especially for carbine loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/
  • For a long time, those in H&R subcategory wondered why Hodgdon didn't publish load data for 9mm using WST with many claiming WST is spikey with pressure "at the top". Instead of following Hodgdon's silence on WST for 9mm, we ventured out to calculate max case fill referencing all available published load data to provide THR members wanting to load 9mm using WST with usable load data with specifics to powder case fill calculations - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/
  • Also during the "Great Shortage", I tested Herco for 9mm/40S&W (Including lead bullets) with accurate test results for 40S&W so without the benefit of currently available load data, THR members could reference test results for load development. Like Promo, Herco has become one of my favorite powders for "clean burning, inside the case clean burning" for 40S&W behind BE-86 in terms of accuracy. Here's one of many 40S&W load development threads "venturing out there" without the aid of currently published load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lead-bullet-data-needed.874760/#post-11635963
twofewscrews said:
... as I remember it the scientific method is as follows: you pose a question, develop a theory, and get someone, preferably someone you don't like, don't know, or is too poor to sue you, to test said theory ... What happened to us?
Click to expand...
We got curious and started pondering. :)
index.php

  • And after being challenged by some THR members that my "sample size" wasn't large enough, I proceeded to shoot over 40,000 rounds of 30+ brands/weights/lots of 22LR ammunition over several years out of 10/22s, Take Down, ARs with CMMG conversion bolts, new GSG1911, new 10/22 Collector #3 and new T/CR22 (And now G22 with Advantage Arms 22LR slide kit) capturing and documenting 5/10 shot groups at 50/100 yards of last 10,000+ rounds with full transparency - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/real-world-accurizing-22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/
And I found out around 1/2" groups with factory 10/22 barrel at 50 yards was doable even after 6000+ rounds were shot through the barrel and around 3/4"-1" with even cheap "bulk" ammunition - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12304052

index.php


And 1.25"-1.5" groups at 100 yards with factory 10/22 barrel - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12194385

index.php
 
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twofewscrews said:
... I'm constantly amazed at the amount of information available on THR...
Click to expand...

Indeed and not just that, ppl here actually mentions their sources "like i had this..." or "my mate says..." thats also very important.

I know that im saying "over here" a lot, but over here we dont have such a great place as THR, our biggest internet forum is just trolls fight club and everybody presents their opinion (based on "one drunk girl said to me...") as only one right statment.

I still thinks US gun laws are bonkers, but i also wish you Happy July 4th weekend everyone
 
Growing up in WV, a close friend was an innovator; he blew up his Dad' s Winchester model 70 in .300 H&H magnum. "Jug" wanted to join the US military. That became impossible after he, against the advice of three friends present, placed a railroad torpedo on the track and hit same with hammer. The military don't accept guys with severely impaired hearing.
 
PWC said:
Twofewacrews - you sum ot up on your first paragraph....you want someone else to do it....
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Whoosh!;)

Well, yeah we want the Guinea Pigs to do it…Scientists are harder to bury!:D

LiveLife said:
We no longer have to "reinvent the wheel" because there is the archiving of the collective knowledge base related to shooting/reloading on the internet part of which THR represents.
Click to expand...

I’m afraid I’m not very organized and don’t have a file of informative links, I find I just learn things and “know” or intuition them. I lose all the bibliography. It’s awesome that there are humans that are logical and have proofs to teach others with. Between you and VT alone, I have learned more actual knowledge about firearms, shooting, hand loading and general logic than an entire book series.

Thankfully, THR can be accessed the world over!
 
twofewscrews said:
When I ask, what will happen if I load a 9mm to .556 pressures and triple the weight of the bullet, people just look at me like I'm an idiot.
Click to expand...
If you do that, you’ll simply prove their perception

And, if you think this is beyond stupid and no one would ever do it, think again. When I worked at the LGS, we had two brothers that came in to buy powder. They were loading for a pristine 1st generation Colt SAA. Extremely valuable. They bought Bullseye, and bragged about how they were going to fill the case. You know, get .454 performance out of a 100+ year old gun.

At the first shot the gun destroyed itself. The shooters hand was so badly injured that I believe he lost it.

You know all those warning labels on products that you think are stupid? The labels are there because someone has done what the label says to not do
 
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twofewscrews said:
I don't have much schooling or anything but as I remember it the scientific method is as follows: you pose a question, develop a theory, and get someone, preferably someone you don't like, don't know, or is too poor to sue you, to test said theory.
Click to expand...

Speaking of a true process, once the theory yields results. The very next thing to do is invite a peer review, attempt to prove the theory wrong. Something that is true cannot be proven wrong.

twofewscrews said:
In all seriousness, I'm constantly amazed at the amount of information available on THR. Ask a question, stupid or smart, and within hours you can expect a well reasoned response to your question. We don't all live in states where firearms are common, available, or appreciated. Those of us living in major urban areas/non rural areas often...
Click to expand...
And even if a few feet in a different direction, look at same topic from a different view. Correct!

Demi-human said:
Someone missed the joke.;)
Click to expand...
You Sir, will deny untold quantities of members from posting! Balderdash! Rats:rofl:!

twofewscrews said:
Happy July 4th weekend everyone.
Have fun, stay safe.
Go make some boom booms
Click to expand...
AND THE FINAL SEAL of approval is... if you lasted thru the entire post, you received the 1st happy 4th of July on this website.

Back at you Sir, you & yours:thumbup:
 
Carl N. Brown said:
For the record, I have a name label covering the web cam on my laptop screen, so you could not have seen me looking at you.
Click to expand...
Careful.

Don't be so sure. I was recently contacted by someone who accidentally hacked my system and recorded not just what I was watching but what I was doing at the time. He was about to send copies to my wife(s) (actually ex-wife(s)) but agreed to send all the copies to me for a very reasonable sum.

But here is the scary part. He got the recordings even though there is no camera on my computer monitor at all. I'm still waiting to get the recordings but can't wait to see them. It sounds like they should be very interesting and since I can't even remember what I might have been watching or doing or what might interest my ex-wives it's keeping me awake at night just guessing.
 
twofewscrews said:
If you only read half a post and assume somthing . . . well you know what they say about assumptions ;)
Click to expand...
You just hit the nail on the head. Your original post proves that most people don't read and comprehend anything beyond the first two sentences. Thanks for the experiment in human psychology. :rofl:
Besides if someone is dumb enough to try any dangerous experimentation that has been done before let just call it natural selection and prove Darwin right over and over again. ;)

Happy Independence Day to you and everyone on this forum.:thumbup:
 
I wish my uncle could have read that... He could have replied to some of his atrocities to the peace and dignity of the state of Indiana with home made cannon, Gatling guns and his ever continuing quest for a .223 caliber that could reach escape velocity. Then there was his "argue proof" long range target involving a 55 gallon barrel, a steel plate, a 12 gauge shotshell and either 2 pounds of flour or a gallon of certain proportional mix of diesel fuel/gasoline. Luckily most of his more scary toys were taken by four very serious men from an alphabet agency two days after he died. Under the watchful eye of his daughter who is an attorney. My brother made popcorn...

In conclusion, 20 years later the neighbors still express their amazement he manage to die of natural causes.

post script - thank you for a rush of fond childhood memories. Somehow 20 years later the words "girl, looks like we're gonna have to blast" isn't nearly as frightening.
 
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twofewscrews said:
Lately I've been very displeased with the science, or lack thereof, being displayed by members of the gun community/THR. When I ask, what will happen if I load a 9mm to .556 pressures and triple the weight of the bullet, people just look at me like I'm an idiot. No one tries anything I suggest. I don't have much schooling or anything but as I remember it the scientific method is as follows: you pose a question, develop a theory, and get someone, preferably someone you don't like, don't know, or is too poor to sue you, to test said theory.

What happened to us?

We used to be pioneers, titans of mastering our fear and exploding things close to our face. Nothing feels me with as much joy and fear as loading up a bullpup shotgun with the biggest, bestest, most powerful rounds I can find and pumping rounds out into the wild blue yonder. Now all we do is sit around doing maths instead of trying new and dangerous things like loading 9mm to .556 pressure and tripling the weight of the bullet. Like yes in theory, and according to math, its a very bad idea, but how do you really know what will happen unless you try it yourself? Where is our scientific spirit? /s
Click to expand...

I would like to load a .32 ACP pocket gun up to fire a 110 (M1 Carbine bullet) @ about 1200 fps and really wow the faint at heart. But I'm not rich enough to replace that many guns and my insurance coverage says they'll cancel me. Same with my ideas for a .25 Super - never mind.

twofewscrews said:
In all seriousness, I'm constantly amazed at the amount of information available on THR. Ask a question, stupid or smart, and within hours you can expect a well reasoned response to your question. We don't all live in states where firearms are common, available, or appreciated. Those of us living in major urban areas/non rural areas often lack access to suitable land for testing ammunition. THR gives those who cannot compare one ammo to another (penetration, expansion, accuracy), who lack land or resources, who lack access to a workshop, who lack proper experience or information about hunting, machining or general firearms knowledge, a place to find all of the above. THR and its members, I salute you.
Click to expand...
I agree. Good bunch of people here. Sometimes I find one or two a bit silly about this or that, but everyone seems to be as open, honest and helpful as possible.
That's why I'm here more than any other forum.

twofewscrews said:
Happy July 4th weekend everyone.
Have fun, stay safe.
Go make some boom booms
Click to expand...
And to you, sir.
 
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