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"Real World" Accurizing 22LR On The Cheap

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by LiveLife, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    During component shortage while conserving reloading components for centerfire pistol/PCC and rifle, I found myself shooting more 22LR out of my ARs with CMMG 22LR conversion bolt, 22LR pistols and rifles.

    I even bought Advantage Arms 22LR conversion slide kit for Gen3 Glock 22 and it has been functioning reliably and shooting around 1" groups offhand at 7 yards for cheaper point/target shooting drills with various ammunition.

    After 30,000 rounds and concluding "Real World" break-in threads for 10/22 and T/CR22 shooting nearly 4000 rounds for 10/22 Collector #3 and 2000 rounds for T/CR22 while documenting group size trends during barrel rifling/trigger break-in and wear and doing myth busting for dirty vs clean barrel accuracy, I thought it was time to move on from factory stock parts and do some accurizing "on the cheap" with low cost modifications and parts replacement.

    During my testing, I have enjoyed following Rimfire Central threads like this for factory stock accuracy - https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1207739

    And for "Real world ... On the cheap" thread, referencing this mega RFC thread for "most bang for the buck" mods and parts replacement - https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535662

    Why you ask "Accurizing ... On the cheap"? Because not everyone can afford to spend $1000+ to accurize their 22LR and modest improvement in accuracy of sub quarter size groups at 50 yards is more than acceptable to many plinkers and sub dime size groups may not be needed. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    After much consideration, I think the following may be a good prioritized list of "best bang for the buck" options to improve accuracy from least cost to more cost:
    • Bolt action vs semi-auto - As seen on many threads, even cheaper lower end bolt action can produce greater accuracy. So if you don't need a semi-auto, simply buying a bolt action 22LR could be the most cost effective option to achieve sub quarter size groups at 50 yards as there may not be a cost difference (And depending on firearm purchased, actual cost savings).
    • Buying "unknown" new vs "known accurate" used - Having shot several 10/22s over the decades, I am aware that some 10/22s out of the box, simply are more accurate than typical. (It's similar principle I use for dry firing while watching the front sight when buying a pistol and choose the one that does not move the front sight to deem more accurate out of the box and as trigger breaks in). So if you can buy a "known accurate" 22LR, it may be another cost effective option to start out with a more accurate rifle than buying a new rifle with "unknown accuracy".
    • Particular brand/model - Instead of buying a base model 10/22 and spending money on replacement bull barrel, trigger and stock, etc., it may be more cost effective to buy a sub $600 target model that already has bull barrel, BX trigger (2.5-3 lbs vs 7.5 lbs) and stock upgrade. To me, buying the T/CR22 was a more cost effective option than buying the 10/22 Target model (at the time of purchase) as even with bull barrel purchase, since T/CR22 Magpul stock would accommodate a bull barrel with forearm insert removed.
    • Scope - Unless you have eagle eye vision, a good scope may be the next cost effective purchase to reduce your group size. Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm is what I now minimally recommend to people and Bushnell Dusk & Dawn 6-18x50mm has worked well, especially in low light conditions. Recently I purchased Burris FF E1 6.5-20x50mm and since it focuses well down to 50 yards, should be a consideration for sub $200 scope - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/burris-fullfield-e1-vs-iv.897779/#post-12119398
    • Barrel/Stock - I think many would agree that barrel replacement may be the "best bang for the buck" upgrade and depending on the stock, you may need to replace with another stock that will accommodate the larger diameter barrel.
    • Trigger job/replacement - Shooter input on trigger pull/push is real (Don't ask me how I know :p). 10/22 came with 7.5 lbs factory trigger that smoothed down to 4.5 lbs after 3500 rounds. T/CR22 came with 6+ lbs factory trigger that reduced down to less than 4 lbs after 1500 rounds. During my 10/22 and T/CR22 "break in" threads, it was obvious that many of the "flyers" were shooter induced from heavier factory triggers and trigger job to polish metal contact surfaces or trigger replacement (Like 2.5-3 lbs BX trigger) will help reduce these flyers.
    • Ammunition - As well documented in both 10/22 and T/CR22 "break in" threads, both were very selective in ammunition with reduction of groups going from 2.5"+ down to 1" consistently throughout the break-in periods. Some brands/weights of bullets produced consistently smaller groups than others so if ammunition cost is comparable, this may not cost you anything extra.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    OK, so here's my start of journey in accurizing 22LR.

    Ruger 10/22 Collector #3 on top with about 4000 rounds shot through that had factory trigger of 7.5 lbs reduced down to 4.5 lbs after "break in". It came with factory scope rail and modular synthetic OD green stock with longer length of pull (LOP) than regular model.

    During the 4000 round break in, it was accurized with the following:
    • Factory barrel free-floated using hard plastic DIY shim under V block
    • Rear of receiver tightened with stock with a strip of electrical tape
    • Allen head bolt tensioned

    [​IMG]

    Thompson/Center T/CR22 on the bottom with about 2000 rounds shot through that had factory trigger of 6 lbs reduced down to 4 lbs after "break in". It came with factory scope rail and Magpul synthetic OD green stock with insert in forearm to accommodate bull barrel.

    Here's T/CR22 with KSA 16.5" bull barrel installed

    [​IMG]

    BTW, factory T/CR22 barrel was made by S&W

    [​IMG]

    And here's the KSA bull barrel

    [​IMG]

    I chose KSA bull barrel mainly because I shoot "bulk" commercial 22LR in semi-auto that were reported to cause feeding issues from magazines with tighter "Bentz" match chamber barrels.

    KSA uses "Precision Target Chamber" that is on par with Ruger Target chamber that works better with "bulk" commercial 22LR fed from the magazine (And during my initial range session with KSA bull barrel, feeding/chambering reliability from magazine was good) - https://www.keystonesportingarmsllc.com/product/16-5-stainless-target-barrel/

    Here are specs for the KSA bull barrel:
    • 920 Target Barrel
    • 12 Lands 12 Grooves
    • Groove Depth: .004"
    • 1:16 RH Rifling Twist
    • 1/2″ – 28 Threaded w/Cap
    • Precision Target Chamber
    Picture showing 12 land/groove rifled bore

    [​IMG]

    Picture showing chamber to start of rifling transition with very short leade and sharp start angle of rifling (Usually done to minimize gas leakage)

    [​IMG]

    And look down the bore

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Reserved

    < Will be posting range report / target pics >
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  5. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Choosing ammo the rifle likes comes 1st.

    I've found that an aftermarket barrel makes the biggest difference on a Ruger 10/22. Of course, you either need to replace the trigger with a $90 Ruger BX trigger or have a gunsmith work on the factory one. Doing those 2 things can be done for just over $200. Maybe less depending on what a gunsmith will charge. The results meet my standards. You can spend more on both barrel and trigger. But I doubt I'm good enough shot to take advantage of it.

    I used this on one rifle. You can get a heavy barrel, and I have a heavy barrel on another rifle. But for this one I wanted to keep weight down. There is no difference in mechanical accuracy although the heavier barreled rifle is a little steadier to hold.

    E. R. Shaw Barrel Ruger 10/22 22 Long Rifle Sporter Contour 1 16 Twist (midwayusa.com)

    Ruger BX Trigger Guard Assembly Ruger 10/22 2.5-3.0 lb Polymer Black (midwayusa.com)

    Replacing the stock is an option, but not necessary to improve accuracy. I have aftermarket stocks on my 10/22's, but that was more an aesthetic choice than a move to improve accuracy. My heavy barrel is in a Magpul like yours, the others have Hogue stocks on them. Under $100 for the Hogue, just over $100 for the Magpul.

    Five shots @ 50 yards. I can live with that.

    IMG_1680.JPG
     
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  6. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I agree.

    Even with factory 10/22 and T/CR22 barrels, ammo selection reduced 50 yard groups from 2.5"+ down to 1.5". As factory trigger wore down from 6-7.5 lbs to 4-4.5 lbs, flyers reduced in numbers and extent. I am sure 2.5-3 lb BX will reduce group size/flyers even further.

    And based on my initial range trip with KSA bull barrel (After loose scope bolts were tightened), I am seeing more and more 1.5"+ loose "cluster groups" with factory barrels tighten to actual "single hole groups".

    Even just with KSA bull barrel and factory T/CR22 trigger at 4 lbs, during my initial range trip, I could already tell shooter input/induced flyers on target ... :D (Yes, applying pressure down on scope as suggested on RFC threads did help :thumbup:)
     
  7. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    One thing I've noticed is the different crimps in 22lr ammo. Some are consistent and some you can wiggle the bullet or even turn it in the case. It's on my list to find or make a crimp die and see what kind of difference crimp and seat depth might make.
     
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  8. George Dickel

    George Dickel Member

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    I agree that ammo is the first consideration. If you are only after minute of soda can, the cheap stuff will work fine. If you are looking for one hole groups at 50 yards you need to step up to the higher end ammo.

    I did something similar to my 10/22 as you did except I chose a .920 E.R. Shaw bull barrel. Even with cheap ammo it improved accuracy a good deal over the factory barrel. The factory barrel was mediocre at best. Changed out the trigger for a Ruger BX and it was well worth the expense. I shoot bullseye matches and just these minor changes my scores improved significantly to where I'm not in the bottom 10% but in the top 10%. I also bought a Hogue stock and l like better than the factory stock. Not sure if it helps with better scores but it fits me well.
     
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  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    NOTE: Reserved post #4 got timed locked out so I will do running range report posts with target group pictures.


    Range Report #1
    (T/CR22 with KSA 16.5" bull barrel - Factory trigger <4 lbs - Rifle/trigger round count almost 2000 - Barrel round count 0)

    My first range trip to break in and burnish KSA bull barrel got foiled by scope ring Allen head screws that got loose. So I decided to shoot 200 rounds of Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila prime) to burnish the barrel.

    When I returned back home, barrel bore was mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched but was not brushed. Chamber and muzzle crown were cleaned. Scope ring Allen head screws tightened.


    Range Report #2
    (T/CR22 with KSA 16.5" bull barrel - Factory trigger <4 lbs - Rifle/trigger round count 2000 - Barrel round count 200) - 50 yard groups with Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila prime)

    First group on top left with hole above circle was first cold barrel shot and next 9 rounds went into a 1/2" sized group. Very encouraged by the first group, I shot three more 10 shot groups on top row but I could see I was "pulling" the trigger to the right with holes landing to the right.

    For the middle row groups, I focused on "trigger squeeze" instead of "trigger pull" and POI were closer to POA. For the right two 5 shot groups, I was happy to see 1/2" groups forming until I pulled a shot to the right.

    For the bottom row groups (6 shot first group, 4 shot second group ... I lost count) I was really focusing on "trigger squeeze" but by the time I got to the fourth group on the right, I was overworking the hand and it showed as increased group size. Time for a break.

    [​IMG]

    After a quick break, I shot a 10 shot group on top row left followed by six 5 shot groups with increasing focus on "trigger squeeze". (KSA bull barrel round count 330)

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  10. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    As well illustrated by Range Report #2 groups, I am definitely adding input to factory 4 lb trigger.

    So to improve/reduce input on trigger, after much consideration between BX trigger/KIDD trigger job kit/Volquartsen target hammer kit; for this "Accurizing ... on the cheap" thread, I ordered the Volquartsen Target Hammer Kit for both 10/22 and T/CR22 - https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/817

    "Our target hammer is designed to give the factory Ruger 10/22 a superb 'trigger job' by simply replacing the factory hammer. No stoning or fitting is required. Reduces trigger pull down to approximately 2.5 - 2.75 lbs."
    After a quick search, found the kit for $40.50 with free shipping - https://www.ebay.com/itm/163245776334?epid=2255969198&hash=item260234ddce:g:TssAAOSwMzVbkyJC

    Will update how Volquartsen kit affects group size on Range Report #3.

    Here's my running total for T/CR22:
    • $179 - Burris FF E1 6.5-20x50mm
    • $119 - KSA 16.5" bull barrel
    • $44 - Volquartsen Target Hammer kit
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  11. PzGren

    PzGren Member

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    The cheapest way to get a really accurate gun is to buy one, especially if you can find a good used one. After shooting over 110,000 rounds through a S&W 22A when my kids were growing up, I decided to get a Hammerli 212 as an accurate plinker and could not be happier. The cost of a gun is always only a fraction of what it cost feeding it - and the better it shoots and the more fun it is, the more expensive will the ammo bills get.
     
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  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Adding to "best bang for the buck" options list on Post #2 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...izing-22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/#post-12124033
    • Barrel harmonics/whip vs trigger pull/push induced scatter/flyers
    During "Real world ... break in" testing of factory 10/22 and T/CR22, I saw extreme outlying "flyers" in some of the groups, sometimes that came from nowhere unexpected (Meaning, I knew I did not pull/push the trigger to cause it ... so I thought), especially when flyers were not left/right dispersion.

    I reasoned these extreme outlying flyers were from barrel harmonics/whipping and even considered using barrel tuners to minimize flyers but since those "real world ... factory" threads tested many different ammunition, I decided against it. But for this "Accurizing ... on the cheap" thread, I am thinking about putting the factory barrel back on the T/CR22 and testing different barrel tuners with a particular ammunition (Aguila 40 gr CPRN).

    But during range testing of KSA bull barrel that should have eliminated the barrel harmonics/whipping scatter, I noticed telltale signs of me pulling/pushing the trigger to induce flyers, and not necessarily left/right dispersion.

    So perhaps extreme outlying flyers I saw during "factory stock" break-in testing may not have been from barrel whipping but rather from trigger pull/push moving the muzzle? To test this, I will replace the KSA bull barrel with factory barrel and do comparison test after Volquartsen hammer trigger kit install and even do barrel tuner test if scatter/flyers persist.
     
  13. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I received the Volquartsen Target Hammer kits today and installed them in T/CR22 and 10/22.

    Here they are in packages

    [​IMG]

    Close up of parts out of the package

    [​IMG]

    And comparison to factory T/CR22 parts on the right

    [​IMG]

    While I had the rifles apart, I thoroughly cleaned the fouling/gunk build up with Hoppes #9 and lubed with motor oil (Chambers and muzzle crowns were cleaned but not the barrel bore).

    And here are the trigger pull results after Volquartsen Target Hammer kits:

    T/CR22 - Slightly under 2 lbs (Out of the box - 6 lbs, After 2000 rounds - 4 lbs)

    10/22 - 2.75 lbs (Out of the box - 7.5 lbs, After 4000 rounds 4.5 lbs)
     

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  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Range Report #3
    • T/CR22 with KSA 16.5" bull barrel - Volquartsen trigger < 2 lbs - Rifle round count 2330 - Barrel round count 330 - Trigger round count 0 - 50 yard groups with Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila prime)
    • 10/22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger 2.75 lbs - Barrel free floated with plastic shim under V block - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with a strip of electrical tape - Rifle/Barrel round count 4000 - Trigger round count 0 - 50 yard groups with Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila prime)
    Top row - Three T/CR22 5 shot groups were shot with trigger not resetting (This was pointed out in RFC threads and most used factory spring to restore trigger reset or put something in the hole to compensate ... Some manually reset the trigger by pushing trigger forward but that's not my style). After ejecting rounds and chambering them twice, for the third group, I dropped the magazine before firing so rounds were chambered only once and 4 rounds went into a 1/4" hole. (I will repeat range test after addressing trigger reset issue)

    Middle row - After first three 10/22 groups produced odd vertical stringing, I checked the scope mount/ring bolts and found the mount nuts loose. After I tightened them, produced the 4th group which had core group size that's smaller than I can remember.

    Bottom row - When the vertical stringing returned by third group and into next target, I checked the scope mount nuts to find the front nut had stripped loose.

    [​IMG]

    The scope mount bolt threads were good so I swapped the stripped front nut with the rear and produced a tight 1/2" 5 shot group. When group size started to open up for next 5 shot group, I held down on the rear of scope for the 4th 10 shot group and produced slightly larger than 1/2" core group (I will address the stripped scope mount nut for the next range test)

    [​IMG]

    Notes/Comments - I may address T/CR22 trigger reset issue by putting something in the trigger return spring hole and if that doesn't work out, I will use the factory spring.

    10/22 scope mount nuts coming loose sheds some light on scatter I have seen in previous test groups and will hold off looking at barrel tuner until after I address the loose scope mount issue.

    Some of the groups, especially smaller core groups are really encouraging and I look forward to repeating the range test with identified issues addressed. Also look forward to testing other brand/weight ammunition.
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    With forecast of 5 days of rain with anticipated 2 days of sunshine next Friday/Saturday, I spent some time going over my range test results, particularly #3 and decided to get the rifles ready to establish more baselines for next sunny day range trip.

    For 10/22:
    • With loose scope mount nuts well confirmed by shot grouping trend, I am planning to replace the stripped thread nuts (Threads on the bolts look good but I may replace both).
    • With smoother and lighter 2.75 lb Volquartsen trigger kit, I will attempt to better secure the rear of the receiver with additional strip of electrical tape. (With one strip, it's a snug fit and I anticipate a tight fit with two strips)
    • If/once tightened scope mounts and more secure rear of receiver produce consistent shot groups with Aguila 40 gr CPRN, I will test other brand/weight ammunition to establish new baseline for accuracy.

    For T/CR22
    :
    • After some consideration, I am now thinking about using the factory trigger return spring to address trigger not resetting issue.
    • I am also planning to install the factory barrel back to establish new baseline for accuracy. This would benefit the "real life ... " threads to show what "factory" rifles would do just with trigger improvement using factory barrels.
    • And like for 10/22, will test other brand/weight ammunition to establish new baseline for accuracy.
     
  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Range Report #4:
    • 10/22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger 2.75 lbs - Barrel free floated with plastic shim under V block - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 2 strips of electrical tape - Rifle/Barrel round count 4100 - Trigger round count 100
    10/22 50 yard groups - Rear of 10/22 receiver was better secured to stock now with 2 strips of electrical tape and it was a tight fit (It was snug before). Instead of replacing stripped scope mount bolt/nut, I decided to just swap out Burris FF E1 scope and mount from T/CR22. For T/CR22, factory barrel and factory trigger reset spring were installed back but trigger pull now measured back to slightly under 4 lbs which was what it measured after 2000 rounds of "break in" (Not what I was hoping for and may resort to plugging the hole with lighter Volquartsen spring to compensate). And to establish new baseline groups, I grabbed a mix of brand/weight ammunition for the range test.

    "Dirty vs Clean" groups for comparison - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...an-22lr-barrel-accuracy.897763/#post-12117913

    Top row - When I saw familiar vertical stringing pattern on first two groups, I checked the scope mount nuts and tightened them. When third group produced tight 5 shot group but low, I adjusted the scope and verified with fourth 3 round partial group.

    Middle row - With POI verified with POA with two groups , I proceeded to test other brand/weight ammunition.

    [​IMG]

    Top row: (ETA: Auto Match group was incorrectly labeled Blazer and correction made)
    • CCI SV 40 gr LRN - Slower velocity produced anticipated lower shots of tight core group
    • Federal Auto Match 40 gr LRN - Was happy with a tight core group that opened up
    • Federal Champion 40 gr LRN - WTH?
    • Federal Game Shok 40 gr CPRN - I think this was like the smallest group I got with this ammo?
    Middle row:
    • Federal 525 blue box 36 gr CPHP - I do believe shot to the right of the circle belongs to this group
    • Federal 550 red box 36 gr CPHP - Fairly tight core "scatter"
    • Armscor 36 gr CPHP - Was hoping for a smaller scatter (Was scope mount nut coming loose?)
    Bottom row - Aguila 40 gr CPRN #1 - Shot two confirming Aguila groups to rule out scope mount nuts loosening

    [​IMG]

    Top row:
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN #2 - Nope, this tight group (Covered by a nickel) ruled out loose scope mount nuts
    • Winchester 555 36 gr CPHP - Large scatter of this group is definitely not due to 10/22, scope/mount or the shooter
    • Winchester XPert 36 gr LHP - I was surprised at fairly small core group that formed with bullets going into the same holes
    • Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN - Was rooting for smaller scatter but it is what it is
    Middle/Bottom rows - When I started getting flyers, I decided to take a break (It was 40F day which was cold for my coastal area and I had been shooting non-stop). After the break, three groups were shot with tight core groups and covered by a nickel.

    [​IMG]

    Notes/Comments: After 350 rounds, Volquartsen Target Hammer kit trigger pull went from 2.75 lbs to 2.25 lbs.
    I am happy with sub nickel size groups produced with 10/22 and Volquartsen trigger kit. Significant swings in group size continues to demonstrate selective preference for ammunition by factory 10/22 barrel with 4350 rounds shot through.

    At this point, I don't plan on changing the factory barrel with bull barrel or testing with barrel tuner as accuracy with CCI SV/CCI Blazer/Aguila 40 gr LRN/CPRN is good enough for me (sub nickel to quarter 10 shot groups at 50 yards).

    Here's a list of accurizing steps I took so far with function/primer ignition reliability:
    • 10/22 with factory 18.5" barrel (round count 4350)
    • Factory modular adjustable stock (Length of pull 14")
    • Bore mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched (Brushed once for dirty vs clean barrel accuracy test)
    • Lubricated with WD-40 Specialist Long-Term and full synthetic motor oil
    • Barrel free floated with plastic shim under V block
    • Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 2 strips of electrical tape
    • Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit - 2.75 lbs installed (2.25 lbs after 350 rounds)
    • Round feeding function reliability and primer ignition 99.9% using factory 10 round rotary magazine with various brand/weight ammunition tested. Cleaning chamber and bolt/firing pin/channel restores function reliability and primer ignition (Remington Thunderbolt has been 100% reliable with primer ignition)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  17. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Range Report #4 Continued:
    • T/CR22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger with factory trigger return spring 4 lbs - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 1 strip of electrical tape - Rifle round count 2350 - Barrel round count 2000 - Trigger round count 20
    T/CR22 50 yard groups - Installing factory barrel back and using factory trigger return spring with Volquartsen kit increased the trigger pull from less than 2 lbs to slightly less than 4 lbs, definitely increasing the group size from bull barrel groups from Range Report #3. But I wanted to capture another baseline groups with factory barrel, particularly with using factory trigger return spring. If plugging the trigger return spring hole and using lighter Volquartsen spring is successful, I may do another baseline group testing with the factory barrel before resuming testing with KSA bull barrel.

    "Dirty vs Clean" groups with factory barrel for comparison - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...an-22lr-barrel-accuracy.897763/#post-12117921

    Top row:
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Although not a bad size core group with factory barrel, I could definitely feel the longer greater effort it took to release the hammer over less than 2 lbs of trigger pull from Range Test #3. In comparison, 10/22 with Volquartsen trigger kit felt cleaner, smoother and lighter (10/22 trigger pull decreased from 2.75 lbs to 2.25 lbs after range sessions of shooting 350 rounds)
    • Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN #1 - I am starting to think the extreme scatter flyers could be from combination of trigger pull/push and free floated barrel whip added to spread from ammunition (Yes, from my PCC testing at 50/75/100 yards, I have seen effects of bullet drop even at 50 yards ... I guess I could verify this with chrono testing of 22LR that consistently produced small groups vs large scatter).
    • Armscor 36 gr CPHP #1 - Started out as 1" group with 4 shots touching but group increased with flyers (Likely from shooter induced trigger pull/push)
    Middle row:
    • Winchester 555 36 gr CPHP #1 - This rather smaller scatter group was a surprise as I have gotten larger scatter groups in past testing. Perhaps Volquartsen hammer, even with factory trigger return spring of 4 lbs, helped reduce trigger pull/push effect on muzzle?
    • Winchester XPert 36 gr LHP - Even more surprise with 1" elongated scatter formation with couple of flyers (Likely trigger pull to right?)
    • Winchester 555 36 gr CPHP #2 - Encouraged by XPert group formation, repeated shot group with 3 low flyers (Perhaps from slower velocity bullet drop and/or trigger pull/push?)
    Bottom row:
    • Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN #2 - I wanted to give this underdog another shot but produced even more extreme scatter flyers. At least it is no longer "Thunderdud" as primer ignition has been 100% during my 6000+ round 10/22 and T/CR22 testing (Along with other brand/weight ammunition)
    • Armscor 36 gr CPHP #2 - Repeated group thinking flyer to the right on group #1 was from trigger pull/push and produced a respectable scatter cluster.
    • Armscor 36 gr CPHP #3 - Nice sub 1" core group formed initially but flyers opened up the group
    • Aguila 40 gr CPRN - As usual, opened and closed the target shooting with verifying group with Aguila that formed a tight group with couple of flyers (It could be the 4 lb factory trigger return spring)
    [​IMG]

    Top row:
    • CCI SV 40 gr LRN - As expected, slower velocity produced lower shot group but continues with consistently tight group
    • Federal Auto Match 40 gr LRN - Respectable group size
    • Federal Champion 40 gr LRN - This was a surprise as I have not been able to get a tight group in previous testing which averaged around 2" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mmo-comparison-break-in.864241/#post-12110986
    • Federal Game Shok 40 gr CPRN - More surprise as core group started out small.
    Middle row:
    • Federal 525 blue box 36 gr CPHP #1 - Fairly consistent scatter group with flyers
    • Federal 550 red box 36 gr CPHP - Actually pretty small scatter group for Walmart only bulk pack
    • Federal 525 blue box 36 gr CPHP #2 - Encouraged by 550 round red box group, shot another 525 round blue box group with fairly small scatter group with flyers
    Bottom row - Finished the range session with verifying group of Aguila

    [​IMG]

    Notes/Comments: I am not happy with quarter size groups produced with T/CR22 and Volquartsen trigger kit with factory trigger return spring that produced under 4 lbs of trigger pull (With Volquartsen spring under 2 lbs). Significant swings in group size continues to demonstrate selective preference for ammunition by factory T/CR22 barrel with 2200 rounds shot through.

    At this point, I will work on getting the Volquartsen spring to reset the trigger and if successful, do another round of baseline group testing before putting the KSA bull barrel back on. With 10/22 producing sub nickel/quarter groups with factory barrel, I am hoping to produce perhaps sub penny/dime groups with T/CR22 and KSA bull barrel.

    Here's a list of accurizing steps I took so far with function/primer ignition reliability:
    • T/CR22 with factory 17" barrel (round count 2200)
    • KSA 16.5" bull barrel free floated with removal of insert on factory stock forearm (round count 350)
    • Factory stock (Length of pull 13.75")
    • Bore mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched (Factory barrel brushed once for dirty vs clean barrel accuracy test. KSA bull barrel has not been brushed yet)
    • Lubricated with WD-40 Specialist Long-Term and full synthetic motor oil
    • Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 1 strip of electrical tape
    • Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit - Under 2 lbs installed (Under 4 lbs with factory trigger reset spring - Will work on blocking spring hole to use with Volquartsen spring)
    • Round feeding function reliability and primer ignition 99.9% using factory/Ruger 10 round rotary magazines with various brand/weight ammunition tested. Cleaning chamber and bolt/firing pin/channel restores function reliability and primer ignition (Remington Thunderbolt has been 100% reliable with primer ignition)
    • Factory bolt comes with firing pin already pinned to bolt
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    29,986
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    UPDATE: FIXED - T/CR22 with Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit not resetting trigger
    Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit brought T/CR22 trigger pull down to slightly less than 2 lbs with clean hammer release but addressing trigger not resetting by using factory trigger return spring brought the trigger pull back up to under 4 lbs. Not what I wanted. (In comparison, Volquartsen kit brought 10/22 trigger pull down to clean 2.25 lbs after break in from initial 2.75 lbs)

    So it was project time yesterday morning after coffee ... With success of getting the trigger to reset with Volquartsen spring. :)

    I decided to put something down the trigger return spring hole to use with shorter Volquartsen trigger return spring. If you look at the comparison picture below, Volquartsen spring is slightly shorter than factory spring on the left and I needed to make up this difference (Trigger plunger to right for size reference).

    [​IMG]

    After considering different materials to use, I found ball point pen plastic ink tube to be about the right diameter for the hole but depending on the brand of pen, diameter was quite not big enough to keep the spring end from expanding and slipping over the plastic tube end. After some trial and error, I found simply using another pen tip to insert into the tube end to enlarge the diameter slightly did the trick to prevent spring from slipping over (I held the ink tube with pliers while pushing with another pen as shown in above picture).

    Enlarged plastic tube end was then cut with common scissors that's kept around the kitchen and I initially went around the tube to score before making the final cut. I started out with 1/8" thick cut but found this piece to be too thick. Thinner cut between 1/8" and 1/16" did the trick and still allowed the plunger to be pushed into the hole to normal depth.

    After trigger group was reassembled back with rest of Volquartsen kit, trigger pull was back down to less than 2 lbs with clean hammer release. NICE!

    When I told my wife (while doing the happy dance) that T/CR22 with Volquartsen kit trigger reset issue was fixed, she reminded that weather forecast was for more than a week's rain and if I wanted to test the trigger fix, I should consider going shooting before the rain. Well, I wasn't planning to go shooting before the rain so I rushed to pack things before the rain started in the afternoon and in haste, while putting the Burris scope and mount back from 10/22, I over tightened one of the mount nuts (Arrrrrgh!).

    While driving to the shooting spot, I figured at least I could test the trigger reset fix even though I could not shoot for groups.

    Range Report #5:
    • T/CR22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger kit with trigger reset fixed with shimming of hole - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 1 strip of electrical tape - Rifle round count 2450 - Factory barrel round count 2200 - Trigger round count 220
    Good news ... Trigger reset was 100% reliable without issue.

    Bad news ... In the "real world" sense, trying to zero the scope with stripped mount nut was futile in effort.

    [​IMG]

    After shooting several boxes, I even tried swapping out the front nut with rear nut but with only modest improvement and shooting session turned out to be 400 round frustration and I ended up finishing the shooting session just enjoying with some plinking. Will repeat Range Report #5 with new scope mounts/nuts. (At least it didn't rain on me :))

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
    stillquietvoice likes this.
  19. dave951

    dave951 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    592
    Location:
    NC
    Here's the first group I ever shot out of my Savage FVSR

    5 shots at 50yd with a called flyer. Ammo was CCI sub sonic
    IMAG0230.jpg



    Here's one after 1k rounds through the gun. Point of aim was the lower right corner of the white square. I used that point because it gave me two straight lines to put my reticle on.
    IMAG0232.jpg

    To date, the only thing I've done to this gun is a cheapo scope and a improvised swell on the stock to get a better cheek weld. I really think a Boyd's is in the near future as I really, really hate the factory stock but that's a known issue with the FVSR. You get a great rifle for the money, but Savage put the manufacturing money into the barrel and trigger.

    IMAG0237.jpg
     
  20. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    29,986
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    I agree as I posted in post #2, starting out with a known accurate bolt action rifle with bull barrel and better trigger may be more cost effective option instead of spending money in addition to cost of purchase to enhance accuracy by replacing parts.

    "... list of 'best bang for the buck' options to improve accuracy:
    • Bolt action vs semi-auto
    • Buying "unknown" new vs "known accurate" used
    • Particular brand/model
    • Scope
    • Barrel/Stock
    • Trigger job/replacement
    • Ammunition"
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  21. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    UPDATE: "rushed ... and ... over tightened ... mount nuts ... Bad news ... In the 'real world' sense, trying to zero the scope with stripped mount nut was futile in effort."

    Scope rings were a bit low for the 50mm scopes and alignment with my eyes so I decided to order high profile mounts. Also, I have enjoyed using one-piece cantilever scope mounts for ARs, so I ordered one piece scope mounts for 10/22 and T/CR22 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A5JV5EU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
  22. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    29,986
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Range Report #6: Aguila 40 gr CPRN (Aguila Prime) was used for 50 yard test. It was 36F with snow on the ground but ammunition was stored indoors. After groups were shot and scope ring/mount bolts and nuts tightened, I plinked with rest of 500 round brick with both rifles (Instead of soda cans, now I can go after shotgun shells).
    • 10/22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger 2.25 lbs - Barrel free floated with plastic shim under V block - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 2 strips of electrical tape - Rifle/Barrel round count 4350 - Trigger round count 350 - One-piece scope mount
    • T/CR22 with factory barrel - Volquartsen trigger 2.0 lbs (Trigger reset fixed with shimming of hole) - Barrel free floated with factory stock - Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 1 strip of electrical tape - Rifle round count 2850 - Factory barrel round count 2600 - Trigger round count 620 - One-piece scope mount
    10/22 Top row - After scope was zeroed, first 10 shot group produced slightly larger than 1/2" group with a shot to the right. When groups started to open up, tightened both scope ring Allen bolts and three mount nuts (Used a large flat head screwdriver).

    Bottom row - After scope ring/mount bolt and nuts were tightened, very tight core group formed with subsequent shots opening up the group (5 shot group would have been sub 1/2"). After second 10 shot group, vertical/horizontal adjustments were made to scope but third 5 shot group produced low yet 1/2" group. After more vertical adjustment, fourth 5 shot group hit point of aim.

    [​IMG]


    T/CR22 Top row - After scope was zeroed, first 10 shot group produced about 3/4" group. When groups started to open up, tightened both ring Allen bolts and three mount nuts (Used a large flat head screwdriver) and produced fourth 10 shot group slightly larger than 1/2" core with a low shot.

    Bottom row - When groups started to open up again, scope ring and mount bolts/nuts were tightened further and produced slightly larger than 1/2" core group.

    [​IMG]

    Notes/Comments: I am quite happy with 10/22 groups. I was hoping for groups that could be covered by a quarter but ended up producing smaller groups that were covered by a nickel with 5 shot groups that were covered by a penny and even a dime using "commercial bulk" Aguila ammunition. I don't anticipate any further modification other than different scope for lighter plinking (Bushnell Trophy/Minox 3-9x40mm) and using Loctite on bolts/nuts.

    I am still chewing on low cost barrel tuner testing since I am using one particular ammunition and thinking some of the flyers are not trigger pull/push induced rather barrel harmonics/whip.

    Here's the final list for 10/22 accurizing "on the cheap":
    • 10/22 with factory 18.5" barrel (round count 4600)
    • Factory modular adjustable stock (Length of pull 14")
    • Bore mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched (Brushed once for dirty vs clean barrel accuracy test)
    • Lubricated with WD-40 Specialist Long-Term and full synthetic motor oil
    • Barrel free floated with plastic shim under V block
    • Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 2 strips of electrical tape
    • Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit ($44) - 2.75 lbs installed (2.25 lbs after 600 rounds)
    • Mizugiwa one piece scope mount ($12)

    T/CR22 trigger reset fix remained 100% reliable with positive reset of trigger and continued with groups that were covered by a nickel (I think some of the 5 shot groups could have been covered by penny/dime). I plan to reinstall KSA bull barrel and resume accuracy testing.

    Here's the running list for T/CR22 accurizing "on the cheap":
    • T/CR22 with factory 17" barrel (round count 2850)
    • KSA 16.5" bull barrel ($119) free floated with removal of insert on factory stock forearm (round count 350)
    • Factory stock (Length of pull 13.75")
    • Bore mopped with Hoppes #9 and dry patched (Factory barrel brushed once for dirty vs clean barrel accuracy test. KSA bull barrel has not been brushed yet)
    • Lubricated with WD-40 Specialist Long-Term and full synthetic motor oil
    • Rear of receiver better secured to stock with 1 strip of electrical tape
    • Volquartsen Target Hammer trigger kit ($44) - 2 lbs unchanged after 870 rounds (trigger reset fixed with plastic shim in the hole)
    • Factory bolt comes with firing pin already pinned
    • Mizugiwa one piece scope mount ($12)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  23. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    29,986
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Decided to do one more modification for the 10/22 ... Replace the factory V block - https://www.eabco.net/Tactical-Solutions-Stainless-Steel-Ruger-1022-V-Block-_p_14113.html

    Work on T/CR22 continues and when I ordered Tactical Solutions V block to use with KSA bull barrel, I ordered a second block for the 10/22. Tactical Solutions V block has thicker top portion to lift the heavy free-floated bull barrel when tightened to compensate for barrel cant or "droop" that results in maxing out vertical adjustment of the scope (Using high profile scope mount probably made the situation worse). Different threads I read on RFC indicated greater consistency of groups when crosshairs of scope was used near the center of the scope. Even though 10/22 tapered barrel is lighter and came without a barrel band on the factory modular stock, since it was free-floated, I figured it couldn't hurt to have additional support for the barrel.

    Also ordered Power Custom match bolt (May use pinned T/CR22 bolt on 10/22) - https://www.eabco.net/Hybrid-Match-Ruger-1022-Bolt--Accuracy-Tuned_p_14228.html

    Along with barrel shims - https://www.eabco.net/EABCO-Barrel-...-TCR22-to-fit-Ruger-1022-Barrels_p_16155.html

    And Tactical Innovations red bolt buffer - Red Recoil Bolt Buffer for Ruger 10/22 Receiver by Tactical Innovations
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    29,986
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Happy New Year!

    After doing some more reading on RFC, plan on adding some more modifications and testing.

    10/22:
    • Bedding of receiver with aluminum foil tape - Use of electrical tape on the rear of receiver (Two strips instead of one) was a carryover from "Real world ... break in" thread. It certainly was a cheap and quick way to better secure the free-floated barrel/receiver which was anchored and pivoted at the V block with a simple plastic shim. But I want to test if improved bedding of receiver and barrel forward of V block will improve group size.
    • Improved free-floating of barrel - 10/22 Collector #3 came with factory modular stock that did not have a barrel ring on the forearm. After bedding of receiver with aluminum foil tape, will test improved free-floating barrel support options with use of inner tube forward of V block.
    • Tactical Solutions V block - Will test if using V block with thicker upper portion to better support the bottom of barrel gap will improve group size.
    • Pinning of firing pin - Since T/CR22 factory bolt comes with pinned firing pin, when it is replaced with Power Custom match bolt with pinned firing pin, will test on 10/22.
    • Barrel tuning - If effects of barrel harmonics/whip persist (I think there is), will test some low cost barrel tuning options.

    T/CR22:
    • Bedding of receiver with aluminum foil tape - Like 10/22, instead of using electrical tape, will test aluminum foil tape.
    • Improved free-floating of barrel/V block - Along with use of Tactical Solutions V block with KSA bull barrel, will test if improved bedding of receiver and support of barrel forward of V block with inner tube will improve group size.
    • Forearm support of bull barrel - Will test if forearm support of bull barrel will improve group size.

    I am certainly learning a lot about accurizing 10/22 from RFC threads. Maintaining "Real world ... on the cheap" theme, modifications to 10/22 have remained low cost with $40 Volquartsen trigger kit being the high dollar item that produced the "best bang for the money" improvement with smooth lighter 2.25 lb trigger.

    Once smallest average groups are repeatedly verified, I will move my range testing from Lead Sled Solo (With pivot arm locked with jammed large roll of blue painter's tape) to bipod and rear bag at 50 yards then 75/100 yards.
     
  25. Pew-Pew

    Pew-Pew member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2022
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    USA
    I had an AA kit. It was never reliable. I sold it
     
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