Single Action vs. Double Action

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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From watching Hickok45 shooting revolvers, he seems to be equally precise with single action and double action. For as long as I can remember, I've always been told that single action is more precise. I got curious and did some searching, and found this:

"If the double action is used every time with the revolver, then the trigger will be uniform and the same pull length and weight with every shot. This allows the shooter to grow accustomed to the trigger quicker because it's going to behave the same way every time it is pulled."

For Bullseye shooting, I gave up years ago shooting rapid-fire with a revolver. For me, not possible, not enough time to not only do it, but be precise. But maybe I'm not being open minded enough.

Any thoughts, regarding target shooting?

I'm thinking of any gun, but the specific gun I have in mind is my old S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman, that Mr. Borland used to help me out so much in this forum maybe ten years ago? I have other revolvers, some of which are considered better for target shooting, but the limiting factor as I see it is me, not the gun.
 
Once I started shooting revolvers DAO, I never went back to thumb cocking them. My groups also shrank when I was trying to shoot a group, especially with guns with heavy recoil.

It doesnt take long to see the benefits, and dry fire speeds that up a good bit, as it helps get youre muscle tone where it needs to be.

The benefits are also across the board, not just with revolver shooting, you gain in all aspects of shooting.
 
Hickok45 seems to revert to SA when he's trying to make
a long shot at a small target like one of his steel rams
or chickens. If he's got a good clue as to hold for the
80-yard gong shots he may use DA.

A lot has to do, I think, with how familiar he has become
with a particular test gun and its trigger. I remember him
doing a not very good review of the Ruger Match Champion.
Though designed for DA work, he seemed to rely on SA
even for close up shots. I don't think he gave that gun
much of a chance. But he's dynamite with the 3-inch
GP100.

If you've got patience and can hold very, very steady
for very precise shots, SA probably is best. The
old bullseye shooters proved that. But since
a shooter nearly always is "wobbling" his revolver,
the DA seems to work out the averages and
"de-wobble" the gun.

And by the way, as you get older, I guarantee
you'll have a harder time de-wobbling. ;)
 
For wringing the last little bit of accuracy out of a revolver, nothing beats single action. It's possible to get pretty close by "staging" a DA trigger, but if you're trying for a cloverleaf at 100 yards, SA is the way to go.

Having said that, very good shooting can be done DA and many people do find that out to 25 yards or so, it hardly makes a difference one way or another.
 
After years of shooting USPSA with a revolver, I almost never shoot single actions. If the ranges are ~50 yards or less I am going to shoot double action. I actually shoot double action revolvers better than single action (revolve or semi-auto) all though that accuracy with single action comes back to similar levels if I spend some time with them.
 
I normally shoot single action trying to get as much accuracy as I can. At the end I often shoot a cylinder or two double action and pretty fast, just for fun. For some reason, I get good groups with those closing shots, better than careful DA practice. I have no idea why.

If I was serious about DA accuracy, I would choose one of the revolvers, probably a Security-Six, or GP100 loaded with 38 special WCs, and dedicate it to DA shooting. I have enough Ruger single actions and cap and ball revolvers to satisfy any SA urges.

Jeff
 
When my wife and I were shooting IHMSA, I can't remember seeing a single DASA revolver competitor firing their revolver double action during a match - ever. And I seen thousands of DASA revolver competitors.
Nevertheless, when I used to carry a revolver for self-defense, I preferred a DAO, or at least DASA so that I could fire DA style if I wanted to.
Edited to add: I carry a Glock 19 nowadays - which of course has the long, double action trigger anyway.
 
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To respond to what's already been posted, I'm now 78, and I've been dry-firing a LOT to get used to the weight of the guns. The revolver I'm currently working with the most is my S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman with 6" barrel. I'm firing only at targets, and there is no need to "rush"; I'm shooting at 25 yards, at a standard NRA B-8 target. I have other guns, including a Model 17-5 that should be quite precise, but I've had this Model 28 forever, and it's still a challenge. My current goal - all holes in the black at 25 yards. I'd love to put all the holes in the 10-ring.

In response to what's been posted - I can hold the gun reasonably steady at 25 single action, but I'm still struggling to prevent the gun from "wobbling" as I pull the hammer back in double action. Getting better though. With enough practice, anything is possible. Maybe the gun needs another clean&lube... - or more likely, I need to learn how to pull the trigger back without allowing the gun to wobble.

.38 Special said:
For wringing the last little bit of accuracy out of a revolver, nothing beats single action.
Click to expand...
If so, I should be shooting single-action.

mcb said:
f the ranges are ~50 yards or less I am going to shoot double action.
Click to expand...
I shoot at 50, 25, and (rarely) 15 yards.

Targa said:
I know that I can’t shoot as tight of a group in double action as I can in single action.
Click to expand...
Groups are the main thing I am after, as tight and small a group as possible. 8-ring... bad. 9-ring...acceptable. 10-ring....I wish!

.308 Norma said:
When my wife and I were shooting IHMSA, I can't remember seeing any DASA revolver competitor firing their revolver double action during a match - ever.
Click to expand...
I think I'm getting a clear answer here, from most people.

For shooting targets - single action.
For shooting for fun - double action.
 
I am a hedonist. Few things (at age 78) provide the sensual pleasure of a Smith & Wesson single action trigger breaking while maintaining a punkin on a post sight picture. It’s wonderful when the bullets make a single big ragged hole, but alas arthritis and cataracts contriibute occasional dispersion.

During an hour long range session I will practice double action double taps with my Model 60 concealed carry piece for about 5 minutes. The rest of the time I am focusing on getting that single action trigger squeeze perfect.

After 60 years of shooting, it’s still damn hard to be perfect.
 
A revolver that does both like the Smith model 66, it's putting it through the paces or it's capabilities to fire some SA and some DA during practice.

While you're at it, you can have fun with a two handed stance, right hand-only, and left hand-only. It's varying the technique with little room for boredom, complacency, or the mundane.
 
I've had my tightest group ever in DA with 38 wadcutters loaded into 357 cases in a 357 magnum. I have found that once you get pretty good and comfortable with DA, your SA trigger skills become much better. In addition, you can learn to stage the trigger, as referenced above. This means pulling the trigger back quick to almost the point of breaking, after the cylinder locks up, and stopping or slowing, then squeezing it that few ounces more. Think of it as hitting that wall with a Glock/XD type trigger before it goes off, except it's measured in just a few ounces more for a good trigger.

It takes a lot of continual practice but one can get quite good at it if one focuses on a single revolver or a single weapon.
 
J-Bar said:
It’s wonderful when the bullets make a single big ragged hole, but alas arthritis and cataracts contriibute occasional dispersion.
Click to expand...
I can't say much about arthritis (yet) but cataracts just need a simple procedure. I had it done to both eyes, and now have 20:20 vision. I can post a link to the surgery on my left eye if you wish to see it. It's a straight forward procedure, very safe, fast, and you'll be up and around in just a few days. With the new IOL in my eye (Intra-Ocular Lens) I can see things perfectly (but I wear progressive lenses so I can see at all distances). Arthritis and tremors...... problem.

StrawHat said:
Never met a PPC winner who shot single action. 7-50 yards all shot double action by the top shooters.
Click to expand...
I'm ok, but I wouldn't claim to be a "Top Shooter". Still, it's interesting that you wrote that - I guess I ought to practice both.

IlikeSA said:
I have found that once you get pretty good and comfortable with DA, your SA trigger skills become much better.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt that. Like I wrote, I guess I ought to practice both.

IlikeSA said:
you can learn to stage the trigger, as referenced above. This means pulling the trigger back quick to almost the point of breaking, after the cylinder locks up, and stopping or slowing, then squeezing it that few ounces more. T
Click to expand...
For Bullseye Shooting, ever one of the experts in the Bullseye Forum and the Bullseye Encyclopedia, and "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury" says to NOT do this. Don't hesitate, make one smooth press of the trigger, and if things aren't right, lower the gun, and start all over again. I'm not suggesting what anyone else should or should not do, but I've been taught not to do that. The best advice I have been given is "watch the dot, wait for the bang", and be surprised when the gun actually fires.
 
J-Bar said:
I am not afraid of cataract surgery. Doc says I am not yet quite ready. When he says do it, I will have it done. Next appointment in a few days. We will see. Pun intended.
Click to expand...
I'm glad I had cataract surgery, even had one eye done with only a local anesthetic instead of being put fully to sleep. It did take a while to get used to shooting again after I was fully healed.

I've stop competitive shooting a while ago, but I decided I wanted to be able to shoot my DAO S&W M642 and several DA/SA semi-autos well.

I spent a better part of a year practicing shooting DA each time I went shooting. I became reasonably proficient shooting DA. Not a competitive level but adequate for general shooting.

I still shoot SA better than DA. But, in my heyday, that may have been the way if i had tried.

If I were shooting competitively, I'd have revolvers tuned for competitive DA shooting.
 
J-Bar said:
I am not afraid of cataract surgery. Doc says I am not yet quite ready. When he says do it, I will have it done. Next appointment in a few days. We will see. Pun intended.
Click to expand...
Well you will need the cataract surgery when they cannot correct the eye for distance anymore because of the cataract. I had the cataract surgery about 6 years ago, separated by about 17 months between one eye and the other. The cataract surgery was far easier and a lot quicker than getting a root canal done. I was not fully asleep, but aware during the procedure.

I had one eye done for close and one for mid range to avoid needing glasses except for driving and outdoor activities beyond yard work. Problem is I got my corrective lenses with the distance eye my right eye, so the sights on the gun are blurry unless I use my left eye to sight, but that is not a natural action. I got used to using the right eye with blurry sights though.
 
aaaaa said:
I had one eye done for close and one for mid range to avoid needing glasses except for driving and outdoor activities beyond yard work. Problem is I got my corrective lenses with the distance eye my right eye, so the sights on the gun are blurry unless I use my left eye to sight, but that is not a natural action. I got used to using the right eye with blurry sights though.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is not much chance of practicing with different field of views for differed focal lengths of lenses. My surgery had one eye done at a time. During the interim, the repaired eye had distance focal length viewing distance while the un-repaired eye still had the old, near sighted vision. It drove me nuts. I popped the lens out of my glasses for the repaired eye so that I could see to drive.

After both eyes were repaired, I could see distance with no problem but I need readers for short distance. It works for me. I have reading glasses everywhere around the house.

They do offer multi-distance implants which have their advantages and disadvantages. Find some folks that have had them installed and learn their experience.
 
Mikemyers,

Have you considered the thought that an
N-frame 6-inch Model 28 is too big and
heavy for you to capably handle?

The dimensions may be defeating you,
especially with a few added years.

Instead think slicked up K-frame like a
Model 14 or Model 15 or Model 19.
They lend themselves easily to DA and SA.

The Model 19-5 with its smooth, wide trigger
and a set of new springs from Wilson Combat
or Wolff might just be the bestest of the best.
(You can, of course, grind down and smooth
out any of the ridged/serrated triggers as well.)
 
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StrawHat said:
Never met a PPC winner who shot single action. 7-50 yards all shot double action by the top shooters.


Kevin
Click to expand...

Yes, but are you familiar with those triggers? I had a Jarvis PPC gun on a Model 10, with a roller trigger and a ridiculously light return spring. As long as you didn't try to run it too fast (or ask it to bust anything other than Federal primers) it was almost impossible to pull the sights off target with the trigger - but what a narrowly focused gun that was!
 
mikemyers said:
For Bullseye Shooting, ever one of the experts in the Bullseye Forum and the Bullseye Encyclopedia, and "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury" says to NOT do this. Don't hesitate, make one smooth press of the trigger, and if things aren't right, lower the gun, and start all over again. I'm not suggesting what anyone else should or should not do, but I've been taught not to do that. The best advice I have been given is "watch the dot, wait for the bang", and be surprised when the gun actually fires.
Click to expand...

I've never shot formal bullseye with a revolver, but in Bianchi Cup competition, "staging" the DA trigger was pretty common during the 50 yard prone stage. That's a pretty specialized application, but there you go.
 
UncleEd said:
Mikemyers,

Have you considered the thought that an
N-frame 6-inch Model 28 is too big and
heavy for you to capably handle?

The dimensions may be defeating you,
especially with a few added years.

Instead think slicked up K-frame like a
Model 14 or Model 15 or Model 19.
They lend themselves easily to DA and SA.

The Model 19-5 with its smooth, wide trigger
and a set of new springs from Wilson Combat
or Wolff might just be the bestest of the best.
(You can, of course, grind down and smooth
out any of the ridged/serrated triggers as well.)
Click to expand...

A gratuitous shot of my 19-4.
full.jpg

This is my EDC gun, as a lifetime of revolver competition has left me far more competent with wheelguns than autos. I had Alan Tanaka - who at one time was among the top PPC builders - convert it to DAO, and the trigger is the best "service" DA I've ever pulled. Out to 15 yards or so, I can tell no difference between it and my best SA groups. At 25 and 50, it lags behind my best SA guns, but not by much. Beyond that, well, I hope I never need to take that shot in a fight, as even that fantastic DA trigger starts to fall behind.
 
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