How Not to Respond

Scrapiron45 · Jul 17, 2022

In trying to learn something useful from the video, something that could help me in a similar situation, I question why might I leave and how to protect someone still in the house.
From his being a veteran and his orderly retreat under fire I could hazard a guess that he fell back on more aggressive military tactics or could have been something as dumb as stopping a car theft.
My point is you could feel it necessary to leave your castle in a similar situation. The kids camping in the backyard, your wife unloading groceries in the drive or the elderly neighbor unaware, working in their yard.
Police response time around here is about 4-5 minutes for a shots fired call, and usually within the hour for a prowler. The action on the video took less than a minute.
Hopefully when the homeowner left the house his modern exterior door locks would keep someone from just walking in, mine will.
The camera in front was obviously good but cameras/lights on the sides/back of the property could have let him track the bad guy without leaving the house.
If I absolutely had to leave the house wife would redial 911 and inform the police, not good but probably the best I can do given the situation.
Something I read many years ago, M. Ayoob said "Take time to put your pants on."
There's a lot in that statement.

Zerodefect · Jul 17, 2022

My camera is a chinese knockoff, so no Amazon.

And I have a right to not incriminate myself? If that doesnt apply, then I'll stategically re-aim that camera, and memorize its view as well.

Blue Jays · Jul 17, 2022

One of the first things I noticed was his rash decision to immediately go fighting in flip-flop sandals.
That significantly reduces ones ability to run, backpedal, change direction, kick, and grapple.
Everyone certainly recalls NYPD Det. John McClane having to deal with fighting amidst broken glass?

Jeff White · Jul 17, 2022

Zerodefect said:
And I have a right to not incriminate myself? If that doesnt apply, then I'll stategically re-aim that camera, and memorize its view as well.

If you do something against the law and it's recorded on your home security video and you subsequently destroy the recording you are tampering with evidence. It's the same as the old trope of shooting a prowler in your yard and then dragging the body into the house. If you have a home security system that uses cameras you have to accept that you don't get to go through the video and delete any evidence of your own misconduct. It's not the same as not speaking to the police. The video is physical evidence. Erasing the video is the same as "cleaning up the crime scene".

JohnKSa · Jul 17, 2022

If you do something against the law and it's recorded on your home security video and you subsequently destroy the recording you are tampering with evidence.

Correct. This is a crime in and of itself. Once evidence exists, destroying it is a crime.

This type of activity, once discovered, is generally considered evidence of guilt. LE and the justice system tend to operate under the belief that innocent people don't try to alter/destroy evidence.

...I'll stategically re-aim that camera, and memorize its view as well.

Lots of people have cameras. I watched a video of a shooting the other day and it was captured by security cameras from at least three different buildings/residences as well as from someone's phone camera. These days you have to assume you're on video most of the time even if you don't have one yourself, or have oriented it so it won't see anything possibly incriminating (which probably means it won't be pointed anywhere useful, BTW).

If you have a camera:

1. You don't have to volunteer that information to LE, but if it is discovered later, the fact that you withheld evidence will be a strike against you.
2. If asked about it by LE, lying about it is a crime. And you should expect to be asked about the presence of a camera--they are ubiquitous these days.
3. Destroying/altering evidence (deleting files) is a crime.

The easiest/best option, by far, is to not do stupid/illegal things. And here's the kicker. That's not just true because it's likely to get you arrested. That's true because doing something stupid in the context of a gunfight might just get you dead.

The ST&T subforum of THR is all about learning how to do smart things in deadly force situations. The general concept of how to do stupid things in deadly force situations with impunity is antithetical to the stated purpose.

Kleanbore · Jul 17, 2022

Great post, John.

Also, the cameras sometimes lead to the apprehension of the perp, and sometimes help in the defense.

bdickens · Jul 17, 2022

JohnKSa said:
The easiest/best option, by far, is to not do stupid/illegal things.

Some problems really do have simple solutions.

azrocks · Jul 18, 2022

Yeah, I can't see anything he did right. And the worst part, is he doesn't seem to indicate he's aware he did anything wrong. He's proud of that cluster.
Wonder how many of his bullets they'll be digging out of neighboring houses? It's fortunate they're not digging them out of his neighbors.
Likewise, he's fortunate (a miracle?) they didn't kill him in the street, leaving his family alone & defenseless.
This is what happens when you stop thinking about home defense strategy the minute you sign your name to a 4473.

Blue Jays · Jul 18, 2022

It would seem to me the "easy layup" would be to first call 9-1-1 then go find the key fob to trigger the alarm. The thirty seconds it takes to get wherever the key fob is stored is precious time the police can respond and hopefully find the dirtbags still somewhat in the vicinity.

Hartkopf · Jul 18, 2022

Blue Jays said:
One of the first things I noticed was his rash decision to immediately go fighting in flip-flop sandals.
That significantly reduces ones ability to run, backpedal, change direction, kick, and grapple.
Everyone certainly recalls NYPD Det. John McClane having to deal with fighting amidst broken glass?

Good point.

Anybody here go to your local outdoor range, take your shoes off and start running high intensity drills?

Just walking across a gravel driveway in worn out Crocs is a bone bruise waiting to happen.

How Not to Respond

Scrapiron45

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Zerodefect

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Blue Jays

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Jeff White

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JohnKSa

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Kleanbore

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bdickens

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azrocks

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Blue Jays

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Hartkopf

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