Wadcutter Rookie

Certainly you can crimp in the groove, the old H&G #50 and similar Lyman were meant to.
So how will you determine how much hotter you can load when seated a tenth of an inch longer?

Smaug said:

I’m rolling up my first batch of wadcutters. I have a couple questions:

1. Why are they seated flush?
2. The bullets I have are Acme + 148 gr. Hi Tek coated, double-ended. They have crimping cannelures about 1/3 up from each end. Could I seat them shallower, use that crimp cannelure and load them a bit hotter?

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"Hot" and "wadcutter" don't really belong in the same sentence.

DEWC's are generally meant to be crimped LIGHTLY in the groove. That's for a standard, low-velocity, target-style load.

You can seat them in a variety of different positions and they will work fine. Wadcutters are usually pretty soft lead and used for target loads. If looking for hot loads there are better bullet choices. Some guns require the bullet to be seated flush - S&W 52 or Colt National Match Mid-range for example. For use in a revolver seated flush or in that small crimp groove won't really make much of a difference. Try both and see what happens.

You can load them however you wish.



Normally I like wadcutter loads light since they are normally used for target shooting and make the nicest little round holes. For 148 grain HBWC or DEWC I crimp with a nice roll crimp DEWC as seen in the above lower image and I crimp HBWC flush but it's a matter more of preference.

I have been using about 2.8 to 3.0 grains (maximum) of Bullseye. Nice mellow target loads.

Ron.

Well, there used to be a "service wadcutter" at the same velocity as the standard roundnose, and that is not hard to equal.
Data is available.

Subbed for information on these. I'm out of the Hornady HBWC and haven't found any in a couple months locally. I like Acme's bullets too. Because of the hollow base, I loaded the Hornady wadcutters lightly; minimum charge of W231 or CFE-Pistol. Might be interesting to try these and push them a little faster. I'm still trying to figure out why a projectile shaped like a soup can is so accurate and popular.

I wouldn't push a hollow base, there are ample flatbase brands to load faster.

DMW1116 said:

I'm still trying to figure out why a projectile shaped like a soup can is so accurate and popular.

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They are accurate because of long development for target shooting and popular because they are accurate.
Low recoil, too; people are carrying them for defense because they are easy to shoot and there aren't many .32s left on the market.

DMW1116 said:

Subbed for information on these. I'm out of the Hornady HBWC and haven't found any in a couple months locally. I like Acme's bullets too. Because of the hollow base, I loaded the Hornady wadcutters lightly; minimum charge of W231 or CFE-Pistol. Might be interesting to try these and push them a little faster. I'm still trying to figure out why a projectile shaped like a soup can is so accurate and popular.

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They have a ton of bearing surface, hard for the bullet to go anything but strait, the hollowbase holds the bore preventing undersize problems. They are shot slow because they are soft an have thin coating lube like a 22 round. Regular cast wad cutters are like any other cast bullet with lube and crimp groves. Speed limits don't really apply.

Jim Watson said:

Well, there used to be a "service wadcutter" at the same velocity as the standard roundnose, and that is not hard to equal.
Data is available.

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Yup. 3.5gr of Unique used to be the load for service revolver practice. The idea being it had the same recoil as a RN but punched clean holes in targets for more accurate scoring. I remember shooting those in club matches and I also remember why pushing those DEWC’s faster than 850fps was a mistake. They lose accuracy. When you spin a wadcutter too fast it becomes unstable. You get keyholes, wandering groups, fliers… nothing good. Of course it depends on the revolver, too. But the faster you push a bullet through the barrel, the faster it spins on its central axis.

I shoot a lot of Wadcutter loads, keeping the 148 grr gr .358 DEWC at around 800 fps makes for a very accurate and pleasant shooting afternoon.

I load all of mine with a tad of bullet sticking out of the case using the cannelure on plated (Xtreme) or the crimp groove in coated bullets ( I don’t shoot plain lead much anymore, it gets too smoky at the indoor range I frequent.)



These aren’t the greatest groups in the world, but the crisp holes in the targets show exactly why wadcutters are favored for scoring-ring target shooting.



Stay safe.

I forgot about that part, the giant crisp holes are very satisfying. Actually the reaction of people that don’t know about wadcutters is even more satisfying. Those holes look huge even in 38.

In my former revolver era, I acquired 8 5# coffee cans full of cast 148gr DEWC and had to find a way to make them work for me.
I also bought 500 once fired nickel 38 cases from Midway, and when you called them to place an order, Larry Potterfield answered the phone!
I did the math to determine how many bullets that was but don't recall the number, but it was a crap load of bullets.

My plan was to develop a load that would knock down plates on a plate rack, turn paddles on a dueling tree and even sweep bowling pins off a table.
By redneck logic I put a 158gr cast semi-wad cutter next to a 357 case, lining up the crimp groove with the case mouth.
I measured from the bullet base to the rim and used that length to determine what groove in the DEWC would give me that same distance but in a 38-spec. case.
That kind of worked out and I used charge data (unique) for a 158gr SWC for 357, SPP primers.
I have a load weight I recall for Unique, but I don't post data for fear of typos.

If you're still with me...
I was shooting these out of 357 revolvers but the actual COAL (in a 38 case) I ended up at was long enough to tie up the cylinder of a 38-spec, so some safety factor there.
When loaded in a 357 cylinder, the bullets entered the cylinder throat, making them somewhat slower to load with a speed-loader but doable.

I got great accuracy and enough velocity to knock down hard set plates and dueling tree paddles.
I found this pic (not mine) that shows what I was doing as far as seating depth:

That bullet is single ended and a 357 case and mine were double ended/38 spec case.
whew, sorry for the bloviation/geezer speak.
.

I have loaded a bunch or 150 gr. (my alloy weight) DEWC for my 38s and 357s. I believe the "flush seating" was necessary for the S&W M 52 semi-auto. Experimenting I have loaded wadcutters flush to crimping on upper lube groove, close to 1/4" exposed, but most I seat to the crimp groove and use a light roll crimp. I have a "house gun" load for one of my revolvers; A DEWC over a max. load of W231 , not +P. Accurate out to 10 yards, farthest I've tested, and I expect the full caliber flat face bullet at around 875 fps will do the job...

BTW; once or twice, when I was lazy, I purchased some Acme bullets, including the 148 gr. PCed DEWC. I found it to be an excellent bullet with very little (almost no) variations in weight or diameter/length...

Yes, the Model 52 requires a flush wadcutter, being built on a 9mm frame.
I understand that a Colt .38 GC or Super to Special conversion will take a #50 crimped in the groove with the front band showing.

I did some extensive wadcutter testing a few years ago with a red dot sighted 38 special S&W model 60 at 75 feet , all bullets were the double ended wadcutter and 2.7 grs. Bullseye .
The bullets crimped in the first (top) crimp groove shot slightly better groups than the bullets seated flush . Our theory was in revolvers , that the first exposed band helps center the round in the cylinder throat ... where the flush seated loads simply lie on the bottom of the cylinder .
Another theory is a better crimp can be applied and this translates to better accuracy . Who Knows !
Nothing scientific about our test but I been loading them with a band exposed ever since .
Some semi-auto pistols , chambered for 38 Special must use flush seated ammo , but we talking revolvers here .
Gary

gwpercle said:

Our theory was in revolvers , that the first exposed band helps center the round in the cylinder throat

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That is what ol Elmer said when drawing up semiwadcutters.

I have been using the Hornady HBWC. I see Berrys makes some too for a comparable price. Has anyone tried them? The Hornady versions are MIA here.

The defunct Ranier wadcutters a friend tried were dismal.
I have READ that the Berry's are pretty good.

I wish I’d bought another box or two. Only 158 grain XTPs have out shot them in my Blackhawk. Those are full power loads; both expensive and unpleasant in high quantities. I think I’ve found a reasonable substitute but they’re round nose and not as satisfying. See the above reasons for shooting wadcutters.