.38 Special wadcutter brass

[bernie]

I have developed an affinity for shooting 148 gr. cast wadcutters from my wheel gun. I have also discovered that not all brass works with wadcutters. I have recently switched to a 148 gr. hollowbase as cast by an NOE mold. I know that PPU bulges and will not chamber if I seat the wadcutters flush with case mouth. What brass in you experience would work with this type of bullet

 

[forrest r]

I broke into my last 2000 ww wc 38spl brass last year. When their done I'll be done getting 8/9 quality reloads out of them. I can get more then 8/9 reloads but by then the weakness/inconsistencies in the brass start to show up with uneven neck tension.

A wc case is more of a strait walled case down to the cannelure in the middle of the case. You need a long bodied expander like a lyman m-die to properly expand the case deep enough to protect the base of the long bodied hbwc.

Another option that works extremely well in standard 38spl cases when loading hbwc'c or wc's in them is to:
Clean the fired 38spl cases
De-prime the fired case only "Do not size them!!!"
Prime the cases as you normally would.
Use the flare die (expander die) that you have and flare the case mouths.
Seat the bullet as you normally would but "Do not crimp the bullet!!!"
Use a lee factory crimp die to crimp the bullet and size the the case at the same time.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Try Starline. They claim their brass will work with HBWC, although I have never tried.

The problem you are experiencing is in the construction of the brass. Wadcutter brass has the inner walls of the case parallel almost all the way down the case, only getting thicker very close to the base (actually the 'head').

Regular brass is tapered internally.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

@forrest r types faster then I...

Another option that works extremely well in standard 38spl cases when loading hbwc'c or wc's in them is to:
Clean the fired 38spl cases
De-prime the fired case only "Do not size them!!!"
Prime the cases as you normally would.
Use the flare die (expander die) that you have and flare the case mouths.
Seat the bullet as you normally would but "Do not crimp the bullet!!!"
Use a lee factory crimp die to crimp the bullet and size the the case at the same time.

This method is very similar to how factory wadcutter loads are assembled. Post-sizing, after loading.

Pay close attention to how he worded the steps.

 

[Thomasss]

I think you may have that turned around. Wadcutters tend to shoot a little better if they are just protruding a little bit over the case mouth. Some people also like to lightly taper crimp them when the bullet slightly protrudes. Why not try a few first before looking for a special case.

 

[merlynski]

Which powder are you using? Primer?

 

[Kp321]

If you are loading for a semi auto such as a S&W 52, the bullet must be seated flush and slightly crimped.

 

[bernie]

I use HP-38 powder and whatever small pistol primer that I can find.

 

[Hondo 60]

What works is a Lee FCD. It helps remove any bulge

 

[BW460]

Remington brass works the best. It is thinner than other brands.

 

[Pat Riot]

Remington brass works the best. It is thinner than other brands.

Yes, Remington brass, head stamp labeled “R P” for Remington Peters, is thinner and should be a good choice.
I bought 500 rounds of Federal Match Wadcutters last year and have been reloading that brass. Federal brass would also be a good choice.

 

[243winxb]

"As cast" not to my liking. Few bullets are round, as they drop from the mold. Sizing should fix your chambering problem? Different alloys, produce different diameters.

Rem brass & target loads for a revolver may not need brass sized. A light crimp holds the bullet. Bullet diameter .358" Just something to test.
Accuracy may be better in a revolver if........

Wadcutters tend to shoot a little better if they are just protruding a little bit over the case mouth

More so in 38 special revolver chambers. No help for 357 mag chambers.

 

[bernie]

I am actually sizing them.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve got about 10,000 R-P double cannelure cases I’ve picked up after Federal agents shooting Remington match wad cutters in regional and National matches. I’ve got about 2,000 OFB of that I save for said matches. The rest I throw into the same bin and reload after tumbling and placed in another bin.

In my revolvers, unsized bullets MIGHT fit, but if sized .358” they always fit. More accurate too.
For regional and national matches, I’ll load and shoot Precision Delta hollow base wadcutters at 25-50yd lines. At 7-15yds I use cast. In club, monthly matches I shoot cast, too. Saves $$$.

Didn’t shoot last year as league canceled matches due to Covid-19 restrictions.
Hope to get back in swing this year. Hope to return to Nationals as I haven’t been since ‘04. Went elk hunting this year instead of shooting Nationals. Plenty of lead/bullets, powders, brass, guns. But primers will be depleted quickly if I start practicing enough to get back into competition level....
Choices!!!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've had no problems with Remington, Federal or Winchester brass.

 

[BJung]

Does anyone have an article that discusses preparing 38-148WC target loads? I am not a bullseye pistol shooter but would like to have the most accurate wadcutter practice loads. As for me, I shoot with a S&W Model 66. My last test loads with the most potential for accuracy was with Winchester 38 cases and the wadcutter seated to the 2nd gas band. The OAL is therefore the length of .357 loaded with a wadcutter and seated to the first gas band. I plan to repeat my test after Thanksgiving. My casing choice for cast bullets are Remington brass because the wall thickness is thinner so a sized case will swage the lead bullet less. I happened to test with Winchester cases because they were sized and primed. PMC has thick walls so resized cases can hold silicon glue bullets ( made from glue sticks ) using a Lee mold. Thanks for the tip seating cast bullets in unsized cases. I will make a test load and compare them to sized cases.

 

[rfwobbly]

PPU and 1 other (PU ??) gave me issues fully flush seated. I got tired of the bulges and simply began to seat to the last cannelure, leaving about 1/10th inch exposed. IOW this...



Versus this...

 

[forrest r]

The watered down version:
You want the bullets sized to the holes in the cylinders or a hair smaller. You want to load the bullets so they are out into the leade's of the cylinders.


A picture of 38spl reloads I took back in 2014. The bullet on the left is a mihec 640 series 158gr hp that has an upper and lower crimp groove. The 640 bullet is crimped long/in the lower lube groove in the 38spl cases & is sized to .358". The wc on the right is the H&G #50 148gr bbwc sized to .357" and crimped in the middle lube groove.


test targets/6-shot groups @ 50ft that are nothing more than the targets I used that day to test those 38spl reloads pictured above in a s&w 686/357mag.


Playing around @ the 50yd line testing plinking/blammo ammo using 357mag brass and a 158gr hp (cramer hunter rfn) and that 640 bullet. The cramer was seated in it's standard crimp groove, the 640 was crimped in the top crimp groove, both sized to .358"


Ugly target shot for my own testing all 4 groups were under 2 1/4" outside to outside measurements.

I've showed this target before and it's like you could here a pin drop. In reality those loads are nothing more then borderline acceptable for 50yd accuracy standards. Hence the term blammo/plinking ammo. It's cheap to make, free lead for bullets, a primer & 5.5gr or 6.0gr of powder. Need to retest @ 100yds to decide on 5.5gr vs 6.0gr.

A couple of links to what Ed Harris wrote about the making of the 38spl wc/hbwc reloads and what kind of accuracy Harris considered acceptable @ 50yds with those wc/hbwc reloads.
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/38wadcutterQA.htm
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/38sagafiftyyards.htm

Seeing how your using a 357 might as well add this link. Most of what Harris wrote in this article I agree with & is a good place to start. But you will find thru testing of different alloys/water dropping your own cast bullets & now the introduction of coated bullets. Your reloads/bullets will be tweaked to your needs/performance/accuracy.
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/primeronloading38specialfornewbie.htm

 

[cfullgraf]

For revolvers, I seat hollow base wadcutters with about 1/10" exposed as rfwobbly shows. I taper crimp the rounds to remove the mouth belling. I do not have any chambering issues with most brass although some of the cases may have the "coke bottle" look to them.

Occasionally, I will get a round that will not chamber. I set them aside and run them through a Lee FCD die and the rounds will then chamber. I may get one or two rounds that won't chamber out of a batch of 500.

Most of my cases are R-P, W-W, or Starline. I have a few odd head stamps in there but have been weeding them out over time. I've not paid attention as to whether the chambering issues are with the odd head stamped cases or not.

I do not shoot competitively so I'm not as picky about my ammunition. I like shooting wadcutters for informal target shooting or plinking.

One downside of post sizing with a Lee FCD die is it reduces the diameter of the bullet on sizing if the case walls are thicker than average.

 

[rkittine]

I have a Star Press set up to load my wad cutters. One for .38 and one for .32 S&W Long. Both have an additional post projectile seating dies for just this reason. More working of the brass but I don't load any match brass more than 3 times.

Bob