Retro Carry Guns & The Stigma Surrounding Them

I think if you look at it in a historical way, theres always been more or less a balance or equilibrium between "good and bad" when it comes to this and times and equipment changes. Been that way since the giddy-up too.

And if anything, the "bad" side, was probably more prone to often having the better, or more serious stuff, even if they werent all that good with it. If anything, they seem to be worse off in that respect these days, simply because of some of the differences in society, then vs now.

Its no different today. The good guys arent the only ones putting together AR pistols and Glock look alikes and that sort of thing and using them. They arent all running around with zip guns and junk.

Whats the difference between someone with a single shot percussion going up against someone with an 1858 Navy, vs someone with a Colt pocket 32 going up against someone with a Thompson vs someone with an LCP vs the AR? If you want to keep up, you have to catch up. And if youre smart, you want to try and be in the passing lane.

Capybara said:

But to me, most of the people who carry those calibers likely don't practice ass often as they should so there is that.

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I feel the same way about those who talk down those who don't carry anything in a 9 or above that has a certain capacity.

Outlaw75 said:

Yep, they did get by with .25's and .32's back then, but they weren't under threat of being attacked by these Bruce Lee/John Wick/Terminator combination attackers that everyone's worried about now a days.

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That does seem to be the thinking these days.

Pat Riot said:

That does seem to be the thinking these days.

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Fear sells product. The fireams industry is very well versed in this. Lots of other industries have taken note on how well it works and are doing the same. Example... the food is going to run out.. everyone needs a 25 year supply sitting in their closets!!

Easy trick to increase sales is convince people that they wont be able to get it soon. Manufacturers/Producers use to be more ethical about this.. (Sale ends Friday type approach). Then they got wise to the practice of Fear Mongering and realized they could increase prices, promote panic buying and rake in the sales. Developing sales/marketing strategies is very much a form of psycological warfare.

A lot of these extreme "tactical" trainer types are more salesmen then anything else. As with any industries or cultural shifts/movements there are always going to be the opportunists lurking whos primary goal is profit over ethics. Gotta always watch out for the sharks and snakeoil salesmen.

Its pretty rare that someone with no enemies gets attacked out of the blue by an assassin. Dont make enemies! Stay away from suspicious characters/places. Find the balance of awareness and paranoia. If someone does find themselves in that situation... do everything possible to get out of there without having to resort to getting into a firefight.

Back to the topic of retro guns and stigma now. Lots of stigmas out there. Budget guns have a stigma.... pink guns have a stigma... Older designs (like revolvers) have a stigma. Every single one of those can kill a human being so they must all be respected. Anything else is reckless and irresponsible..... and just flat out DUMB. It might make people feel better to trash an old firearm because they think their new fangled whatever gives them super powers but thats not the reality (outside of Films). It only takes one bullet to kill you. Its important IMO that CCW holders dont fall prey to the mental games that are thrown at us 24/7 through action films, salesmen, youtube, social media...whatever. Many of which focus on what a "stigma" firearm CANT do and not what it CAN do.

March 30, 1981 a man (Hinckley) walked right up to Ronald Reagan and shot multiple times with an RG14 Zamak revolver in 22LR while Reagan had a full barage of Security around him with state of the art weaponry. Reagan almost died from that and it wasnt even a direct hit (richochet). Thats a bottom barrel 22lr revolver with a short barrel giving inferior ballistics. Even a BB gun can result in a death... lots of that stuff out there if you want to read up. Laughing off someone carrying a "retro" or other stigma firearm is kind of idiotic IMO. Yet places like social media/youtube is full of just that from so called "experts" who just "know" things. Then they build a whole fanclub of suckers that just lap it up and promote nonsense because they like a "personality" or a "Brand". It is what it is.

A gun is a gun, worthless trash, or high dollar state of the art. Only an idiot wouldnt respect any of them. On the other hand, there are a LOT of idiots out there. Just look around at the local range at what has round impacts all over them.

I guess the plus there is, at least they were at the range, and it wasnt the house or car, etc. Oh, wait! Nevermind.

This isnt a simple comparison sort of thing here either. The gun is only one part of the equation, and to many variables to actually come up with a real answer. Someone with decent skills might make out great with something like a Mauser 1910, where someone with little experience and skill, may fail quickly in the exact same situation with any of the latest and greatest high caps.

It always seems in any of these types of threads, people just want to argue hardware, with no consideration for software. Just because you have a gun, doesnt necessarily mean youre armed. It just means you have a gun.

I think where the reality and understanding of things become more apparent, is when you shoot a lot of different things, the same way in comparison, and can see where they lack or excel. You wont get that just talking about it, and, actually doing it, makes a lot of things blatantly clear. At the very least, you can go forward with a better understanding of what is really what, and make a more educated guess as to whats best for you.

As far as "Fear sells, and business is great!" goes, it does, and it may be a bit blown out of proportion, or, maybe even not, but it still doesn't mean that bad things cant/dont/wont happen, no matter where you live, work, or travel, and that you wont ever be in the winning slot on the wheel when the ball lands. Just look around at whats happening "everywhere" these days.

Regardless of what you decide to carry, if you want the best chance of making it work, the more important thing is that you take the time and make the effort, to be as proficient with it as possible.

starling said:

It only takes one bullet to kill you.

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Lethality (kill) and quickly incapacitating are not inexorably linked.
Sure a 22/25/32 can kill (so can the flu) but do not have the ASAP incapacitation potential of larger calibers. (generalize, not talking about shooting in the eye)
Goal of self defense would be stopping threat(s) hopefully before they can inflict serious or lethal injury to the defender.
The criteria of at least 12'' penetration and consistent expansion (heavy clothed gel) is a standard to use if oriented toward ASAP incapacitation.

When I was hired a cop in 1992 the department still issued revolvers, but personally owned select pistols in 9mm or 45 acp were approved.
Despite that they issued 6 shot revolvers and Remington 125 SJHP was the issued ammo, officers were taught to "double tap" - one reason being they were not expecting to get a "one shot stop" despite using 357 Mag 125 SJHP. If one carried a pistol issue ammo was 9mm Remington 115 +P HP or 45 Remington 185 +P HP.

I hope I never have to defend myself, but if I unfortunately do, I would certainly prefer threat(s) incapacitated before they can inflict injury or death to me.
So, If I carried a "retro" handgun it would be one of my 1911's in 45 acp or 10mm. I know, these specimens are not old, but the design is.


I've even got one in 9mm that I'd carry, Ruger CMD lightweight on right.

Hows this for "retro"?



No idea as to make. Best guess is its a .32 something or other. Kinda sorta works.

It was actually being carried by a Marine back in the 60's when the old man took it off him while he had an MP detachment in a large southern city. He had a box full of stuff just like it too, among other things.

Is it deadly, probably? Could go either way though.

Some distant uncle of my Sicilian family (there are a lot of them), on his retirement from a super sketchy Prohibition era life so way back in the 70s and early 80s, opened a liquor store in the neighborhood, as it decended into poverty and crime when manufacturing left the town. Got knocked over like 3 times a year for a decade or more. Well... they tried. He pulled a gun out on them every time. Usually, nothing to it, they run away (odd no one learned to just not go into angry armed man store, but I digress). Over time, as he got older, he got smaller and smaller guns as one does.

So early on, he's seriously injuring or killing robbers every coupla-three years. Shotgun (yes, post '34 but family INSISTS he had a sawed off for a while there. Cops DNGAF what he did apparently) upgraded to an unspecified Big Gun (pistol) because he had to fight someone for access to the counter shotgun once, but a few years later he's down to what I believe is (from police reporting to the paper, so only so reliable) a .32 revolver. He seems to have skipped a small .38, not sure why.

Anyway, at which point with the .32 he's wounding them so lightly the same people sometimes keep coming back to rob him (not smart people!), and this is running (well... hobbling) down the sidewalk after them, shooting down the street at the felons fleeing with what they grabbed out of the register after shooting him. We can't guarantee fatal wounding much less instant death no matter what you shoot people with, but I think a floor for power would be "has no interest in ever having me shoot them again."

OTOH, family is happy the villains also carried only .22s so at 79 he's hospitalized for a few days before he goes back to work after yet another shooting. Cuts both ways

I am pretty sure he retired basically because he got too old to shoot anything of any power well enough.

trackskippy said:

Hows this for "retro"?

View attachment 1110559

No idea as to make. Best guess is its a .32 something or other. Kinda sorta works.

It was actually being carried by a Marine back in the 60's when the old man took it off him while he had an MP detachment in a large southern city. He had a box full of stuff just like it too, among other things.

Is it deadly, probably? Could go either way though.

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I believe thats an Iver Johnson 1900 model... or a US revolver Co.

Here you go trackskippy....

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/products/172367-us-revolver-co-double-action-32-sw-pr61081.html

starling said:

I believe thats an Iver Johnson 1900 model... or a US revolver Co.

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Nice call!

I just pulled it out and after a bit of rubbing on the top strap, found "U.S. Revolver" lightly stamped on it. Never noticed it before, not that I looked that hard either.

trackskippy said:

Nice call!

I just pulled it out and after a bit of rubbing on the top strap, found "U.S. Revolver" lightly stamped on it. Never noticed it before, not that I looked that hard either.

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Fixed that puppy up! Give it a good cleaning and wax. I would leave that patina.

Grips here...

https://www.vintagegungrips.com/shop/u-s-revolver-32/

If its mechanically sound and you try an fire it I wouldnt shoot smokeless powder.

Ammo here....

https://www.buffaloarms.com/32-s-w-short-black-powder-ammo-amobp32sws.html#reviews

LOL. Lipstick on a pig.

trackskippy said:

LOL. Lipstick on a pig.

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Nah... thats a historical Gem you have there. Even has family sentemental value which is a HUGE plus. Stuff like that has to stay in the family and handed down generation after generation. I wish I had something like that in my family. You are a lucky man.

That one stays in the junk box.

This one fills the other bill. WWII family bring back.

shoobe01 said:

Some distant uncle of my Sicilian family (there are a lot of them), on his retirement from a super sketchy Prohibition era life so way back in the 70s and early 80s, opened a liquor store in the neighborhood, as it decended into poverty and crime when manufacturing left the town. Got knocked over like 3 times a year for a decade or more. Well... they tried. He pulled a gun out on them every time. Usually, nothing to it, they run away (odd no one learned to just not go into angry armed man store, but I digress). Over time, as he got older, he got smaller and smaller guns as one does.

So early on, he's seriously injuring or killing robbers every coupla-three years. Shotgun (yes, post '34 but family INSISTS he had a sawed off for a while there. Cops DNGAF what he did apparently) upgraded to an unspecified Big Gun (pistol) because he had to fight someone for access to the counter shotgun once, but a few years later he's down to what I believe is (from police reporting to the paper, so only so reliable) a .32 revolver. He seems to have skipped a small .38, not sure why.

Anyway, at which point with the .32 he's wounding them so lightly the same people sometimes keep coming back to rob him (not smart people!), and this is running (well... hobbling) down the sidewalk after them, shooting down the street at the felons fleeing with what they grabbed out of the register after shooting him. We can't guarantee fatal wounding much less instant death no matter what you shoot people with, but I think a floor for power would be "has no interest in ever having me shoot them again."

OTOH, family is happy the villains also carried only .22s so at 79 he's hospitalized for a few days before he goes back to work after yet another shooting. Cuts both ways

I am pretty sure he retired basically because he got too old to shoot anything of any power well enough.

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Can’t believe I am the only one to give you a “like!” Terrific post, hoisting a toast in your direction. Reminds me of my “sketchy” ancestors. Thanks!

J-Bar said:

...Reminds me of my “sketchy” ancestors.

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The wife is a Rogers, as in Woodes Rogers. So her side was legendarily violent, jut under official auspices. She's Canadian, with her people moving there not long after the age of piracy. Not a lot of soldiers and police since then, but not none.

And my Mom's people are from Wisconsin, subordinate to Chicagoland. They (for sure) did that whole in-the-movies-but-real smuggle from... Canada.

In a not unreasonably alternative timeline, the two families could have fought each other

shoobe01 said:

The wife is a Rogers, as in Woodes Rogers. So her side was legendarily violent, jut under official auspices. She's Canadian, with her people moving there not long after the age of piracy. Not a lot of soldiers and police since then, but not none.

And my Mom's people are from Wisconsin, subordinate to Chicagoland. They (for sure) did that whole in-the-movies-but-real smuggle from... Canada.

In a not unreasonably alternative timeline, the two families could have fought each other

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Mine were simple moonshiners who skipped out of Virginia about 1905 to avoid prosecution, perhaps leaving a body or two in their wake. They were understandably vague on some details. Grandpa’s favorite gun was an H&R .22LR, with which he was proficient. He and I killed rats at sundown at the city dump in the 1960s. His success rate was better than mine. He used it to scare off the abusive boyfriend of his next door neighbor when he was about 80 years old.

Other times, other manners.

The men in my family never talked about handguns. If they had them, they were secrets from kids and grandkids.

Although, when in my 20s, my grandfather on my mom's side did let me and my brother take his .45 ACP Webley revolver out for a spin, probably a war surplus gun. He bought it between the big wars. He never did tell us any stories about it.

This was my grandfather's "carry" gun. He owned several laundromats in the '50's. His brother in law was worried about him carrying bags full of change around and gave his this beauty.

.32 S&W of unknown heritage. Some Spanish make, I haven't been able to find much information on it.

No one knew about it until after his funeral when we went back to his house. My aunts started going through his stuff and found it. Dad says Gramps likely said "thanks" and tossed it in a box in the top of the closet where it sat for the next 50 years.

We found something similar in a drawer when my dad died. No idea where it came from, as none of us had ever seen it before. We figured someone must have gave it to him to get rid of it.



All I knew at the time was, it was an S&W, and it was in pretty nice shape. Most of its original bluing, and was "tight", unlike most of the others of that type that I had come into before. This one looked to be OK to actually shoot.

There was nothing on the gun to tell you what the model or caliber was, and that took a little bit of measuring and research to figure out. Turned out to be a 4th Model Top Break 32 S&W, and by the serial number, was an earlier gun from the black powder era.

At the time, the cheapest ammo I could find for it, was running about a buck a round, and they were all smokeless and basically collectibles. I got 100 pieces of brass, 100 lead bullets, and a set of dies for $75, and used black powder instead of smokeless.

For a small caliber, little gun, it had quite the bark and more recoil than I would have thought. At 10' it shot 6" left of POA and wouldnt pierce the side of my burn barrel. Just left dents.

Beautiful topbreaks. They were kinda the LCP/P3ATs of the era. Most of those oldies were not proofed for smokeless powder so I would never try to shoot modern ammo though one (if one cant resist the urge to shoot them). Always nice to have a box or two of ammo on hand though...just in case. A lot of the broken or damged ones out there are likely because someone tried smokless powder in them over the last 100 years or so. Take care of those babies. A lot of people think they are junk/trash but there is a lot of history to those revolvers.

Kind of seems like two separate topics being discussed. One is revolvers, and the other is pipsqueak cartridges.

My opinion is that folks have tended toward dismissing revolvers for decades. That makes some sense from a military and police standpoint, but I don't buy most of the arguments against revolvers for armed citizens. These days especially, the high-speed/low-drag kids act as if revolvers are completely useless in a fight - as though you just suggested running Daytona with the family sedan - and aren't interested in even discussing it. No skin off my nose, except for the fact that they sometimes convince people who actually would be served better by a DA revolver than any other gun.

Now, the pipsqueak cartridges? They've largely been left behind because they simply don't work very well. Especially when loaded with FMJ for reliability, things like the .25 just can't be expected to have any real effect in a gunfight. Yes, just "having a gun" works in many instances, and yes, there are instances of fights being won with such things, but honestly, if you wouldn't hunt deer with it, why would you trust your life on it?

My grandparents didn't carry; didn't really NEED to, in those days.

My grandpa had a period after WW2 where he was a cop. Their son (my uncle) was caught a couple times trying to get into the toolbox he had it locked in, and succeeded one time. Luckly, the ammo was locked up elsewhere. (They were too lenient on him.) After that, he switched jobs and sold the gun.

I guess the farmers, two generations ago on my dad's side may have had the farm shotgun or a 22LR at hand for pest animals.

Nothing carried as a civilian for self defense.

Ethan Verity said:

The Glock safe action trigger is a momentum drop safety that prevents the trigger, or heavier metal trigger bar, from being able to pull itself on sudden rearward impact with the ground. Thus, making a drop safe gun with a relatively light trigger that doesn't require a manual or grip safety.

A lot of people think the trigger safety is just so the trigger can't be pulled if you only snag the outer edges of the trigger, which is an unlikely scenario for any real benefit anyway... if that really were the only purpose of the safety trigger, than it would indeed be a lame "innovation"... but it's not.

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Agreed, and it also includes the drop safety built into the "cruciform" which will not allow the sear to drop if the trigger is not pulled, and the striker block built into the slide. I recall reading about drop tests that involved helicopters. Seriously.