Alternate Grip Safeties 1911A1

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Slamfire said:
This is where the hammer hits on my Rock Island

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View attachment 1116484

I much prefer the hammer hitting the grip safety than my hand.
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Wow! The hammer would not go that far back on manually cocking, so the slide must throw it back so hard that it bangs the grip safety tang. So that raises the question to me of whether removing the grip safety tang might cause over extension of the hammer and possible internal damage to the gun. Not that I plan to do that, but it is an interesting question.
 
jar said:
His issue is not with the hammer but rather with the grip safety hitting his hand hard enough to cause a bruise.

I had the same problem with my Commander sized Tisas Tanker but changing to better fitting more aggressive grips cured the problem.
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I will keep this idea in my back pocket, but don't want to destroy the GI look of the gun.
 
aaaaa said:
I will keep this idea in my back pocket, but don't want to destroy the GI look of the gun.
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Grips come in all styles. If you file pieces parts off you are already changing the GI look of the gun.

The GI issued guns came with grips from several different makers and there are even examples of the GI making grips for their service handgun. Look at the Hogue and other makers grips that replicate the classic diamond wood grips.
 
jar said:
Grips come in all styles. If you file pieces parts off you are already changing the GI look of the gun.

The GI issued guns came with grips from several different makers and there are even examples of the GI making grips for their service handgun. Look at the Hogue and other makers grips that replicate the classic diamond wood grips.
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They should make spacers provided with longer screws to add maybe 1/8" under the grip.
 
aaaaa said:
Wow! The hammer would not go that far back on manually cocking, so the slide must throw it back so hard that it bangs the grip safety tang. So that raises the question to me of whether removing the grip safety tang might cause over extension of the hammer and possible internal damage to the gun. Not that I plan to do that, but it is an interesting question.
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I believe you are correct, the slide on this pistol opens violently and fast. The hammer must be tossed down onto the grip safety. I don't know if this happens with +P ammunition. Could.
 
One more tip to try; don’t get overly aggressive but you can remove a small amount of material from the top of the hammer so as to prevent the slide from severely overcocking it. This should reduce the amount of force contact between hammer and grip safety tang. As with any modification, no matter how slight, be safe and check function before returning the firearm to service.

Pictures of my S&W below.

Go slow with a few file strokes and continually test. Too much removal will result in a hammer that will not cock via slide.
3C20B677-1906-4E53-8673-7CEDD96C6A8D.jpeg

Note area to be filed is the top corner of the hammer’s face, above the contact point with the firing pin.
7259630D-8115-4313-9AE4-736CD7996721.jpeg

I cannot demonstrate properly without video but from fully cocked, there is approximately 1/16” movement below the cocked position, called overtravel.
0E35EF4B-8878-4CBB-8996-FEDE878456C7.jpeg
 
Seems we were all on a shared wavelength and typing simultaneously! Oops, looks like my phone didn’t refresh. Disregard.
 
aaaaa said:
Wow! The hammer would not go that far back on manually cocking, so the slide must throw it back so hard that it bangs the grip safety tang. So that raises the question to me of whether removing the grip safety tang might cause over extension of the hammer and possible internal damage to the gun. Not that I plan to do that, but it is an interesting question.
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Yes, it does. Make sure arm is unloaded hold the arm with shooting hand NOT in firing position so the grip safety is not depressed. Then - slowly so you can see it all - move (rack, open) the slide to the full recoil - all the way back position and note that the slide depresses the hammer into contact with the safety.
Alternatively, make sure arm is unloaded: Hammer down, thumb cock the pistol and note the hammer (can) contact the grip safety.

Among other things, the hammer depresses the grip safety allowing the hammer to be lowered at need.

No. Removing the 'tang' part of the grip safety will not allow the hammer to over-travel. In short, the mainspring and mainspring guide make that impossible. (One has to detail strip the pistol to 'see' this.) However, removing the tang will allow the hammer to impact the web of the hand.
I've never done that, but I rather think it to be unpleasant.
 
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Archie said:
Yes, it does. Make sure arm is unloaded hold the arm with shooting hand NOT in firing position so the grip safety is not depressed. Then - slowly so you can see it all - move (rack, open) the slide to the full recoil - all the way back position and note that the slide depresses the hammer into contact with the safety.
Alternatively, make sure arm is unloaded: Hammer down, thumb cock the pistol and note the hammer (can) contact the grip safety.

Among other things, the hammer depresses the grip safety allowing the hammer to be lowered at need.

No. Removing the 'tang' part of the grip safety will not allow the hammer to over-travel. In short, the mainspring and mainspring guide make that impossible. (One has to detail strip the pistol to 'see' this.) However, removing the tang will allow the hammer to impact the web of the hand.
I've never done that, but I rather think it to be unpleasant.
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Well the slide moves the hammer farther than it sits in the cocked position with slide closed. The maximum the slide holds the hammer back is presented with the slide locked back. It does not touch the spur. With the slide closed and the hammer cocked I can pull the hammer back until it touches the spur, even if I hold down the grip safety to pull the spur down, the hammer still can touch it, so I have no idea how much more travel it might have. So, filing off more of the grip safety spur is dicey as it might result in a worse situation if the hammer hits my hand instead.

I was as a GS today, and showed my 1911 grip safety spur scab on my hand. The guy said I am holding too high on the gun. But I thought you were supposed to push the web of your hand into the upper part of the grip safety and tang.
 
aaaaa said:
I was as a GS today, and showed my 1911 grip safety spur scab on my hand. The guy said I am holding too high on the gun. But I thought you were supposed to push the web of your hand into the upper part of the grip safety and tang.
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Your hand goes where it is the most comfortable with other considerations. I want my trigger finger to be in as relaxed position as possible. I do not want the the trigger pull to affect the position of the pistol.

Take a look at the high speed camera images of Jerry Miculek firing a revolver. Around 6 minutes in, you can see how much Jerry pushes the muzzle down, before the hammer releases. He has to adjust the sights, and maintain this constant "flinch" for the bullet to hit point of aim.



If your hand position on the 1911 causes deflection of the pistol, try finding a hand position that won't cause deflection. And, grip strength changes the point of impact up and down. When I use a "Monster Grip" I clearly see shots impacting the bottom of the black at 25 yards. Finding and maintaining a constant grip tension is work. When I use a Monster grip, that grip safety presses hard into the web of my hand. A Monster grip will result in faster recovery, so it is not a bad thing in itself. Many, if not all, good Bullseye shooters use a consistent Monster grip to reduce pistol recoil and recovery time. One reason why competition 1911's have checkering on the front strap, to get a better grip.

The more I shoot my GI configuration 1911's, the thicker the calluses on the web of my hand grow. Using a thin leather glove will reduce the skin wear on the web. When it was really cold last week, I had a set of thin leather gloves on. Worked fine. Has to be thin gloves though or you will bump the trigger!
 
Another thirty-six rounds (5x7 rounds +1) fairly rapid fire at 7 yards through the Tisas Tanker and still not even a mark much less a bruise with the Magpul MOE grips.

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Ordered a set of stealth grey to go on the Army.
 
jar said:
Another thirty-six rounds (5x7 rounds +1) fairly rapid fire at 7 yards through the Tisas Tanker and still not even a mark much less a bruise with the Magpul MOE grips.
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Were you getting an marks or bruises before you got the Magpul MOE grips?

Are the Magpul MOE grips thicker than the stock 1/4-inch?
 
aaaaa said:
Were you getting an marks or bruises before you got the Magpul MOE grips?

Are the Magpul MOE grips thicker than the stock 1/4-inch?
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The key points are that changing grips is simple and easily reversed. If you order a set from Amazon you can put them on, head to the range, test it and if it works great, if it doesn't you simply initiate a return. The biggest differences I notice are that the grips feel more solid, have far better gripping texture and the profile seems more triangular than a smooth arc. In hand I sense a high spot that pretty much runs top to bottom between the screw points. In usage I find the grips reduce both twisting and slipping inside my hands.
 
jar said:
Yes, major bruise with as few as seven rounds.

No idea of relative thickness only that they work.
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Well then it appears that grip is important and the Magpul MOE has more aggressive grip surface. Having cross hatching on the front of the grip might also help. This might be a good one for me to try as it preserves the stock grips:
s-l500.jpg
s-l500.jpg
 
aaaaa said:
The guy said I am holding too high on the gun. But I thought you were supposed to push the web of your hand into the upper part of the grip safety and tang.
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The high as you can mantra is a relatively new one, as in just a few decades old. In speaking with long time shooters of my father’s generation it simply wasn’t so. And after many years of high hold I decided to try a GI with a more relaxed grip which ended the hammer bite but not my apprehension thereof.

As for attempting it with a GI style pistol, well I suppose it will depend on the manufacturer and how faithful a reproduction they’ve chosen. The more faithful will have no undercut of the trigger guard whereas many modern 1911s (and some repros) feature this undercut, allowing the entire hand to move upward toward the bore vs angling the pistol upward if only a high cut beaver tail is used.

GI style frame
49EE7FF9-FD73-407A-A233-FC7910F7CDF4.jpeg


And modern frame
6379008F-D322-45AF-9CA9-740EC3890569.jpeg
 
aaaaa said:
The guy said I am holding too high on the gun. But I thought you were supposed to push the web of your hand into the upper part of the grip safety and tang.
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Not on the 1911. Not all modern techniques apply to the 1911. Many 1911 techniques are applied to other platforms without understanding why it is done that way...luckily many have fallen by the wayside

If you pushed your hand as high as it would go under the tang of the grip safety, you'd be levering the grip safety back out and blocking the trigger
 
9mmepiphany said:
Not on the 1911. Not all modern techniques apply to the 1911. Many 1911 techniques are applied to other platforms without understanding why it is done that way...luckily many have fallen by the wayside

If you pushed your hand as high as it would go under the tang of the grip safety, you'd be levering the grip safety back out and blocking the trigger
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Maybe one should grip the gun so there is a small gap between their hand and the grip safety tang. I can try it at the range. It seemed to improve when I filed some material off the bottom of the grip safety spur so it was not angled down into my hand as much. After that I only got the scab, not the black and blue mark. I just filed a little more to take off the sharp edges and will see about not pushing my hand so hard into the grip safety elbow area. There are other solutions such as a glove. Also I just ordered a finger groove insert for the front strap to see if that helps. Anyway, a fun gun to shoot and a few more range trips to work out the grip safety spur bash issue are no problem.
 
I started running into the grip safety activation issue with my 1911's when I started shooting things like Glocks, and then trying to replicate that higher grip with the 1911's. The bump pad on the bottom of some grip safeties is there to help with that, and it does help. You can improvise that too with safeties that dont have one. The undercutting of the frame at the trigger guard is also a help when trying to get a higher grip.

My hand is pushed up tight against the grip safety when I shoot and I only very occasionally get some hammer bite with the spur type hammers. I dont get any bruising with any of them though.

I would think if you left a gap in your grip, that would allow the gun to move under recoil and only make the impact/bruising issue worse. Same principle as not shouldering a rifle properly, and allowing it to "kick" you.

With a firm and proper grip, the gun wont, and shouldnt move in your hand.

As far as better grip on the front strap, I normally put a piece of skateboard tape there on the guns I cant stipple. Works great and is a cheap fix. Being able to stipple the polymer framed guns is a major plus there, and anywhere else you might want a more aggressive grip texture.
 
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