Oldest Firearm I own. Queen Anne Turn Off Pistol

white smoke said:

The projectiles aren't in there very tight.

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Here is a video capture while shooting an H&A XL No. 1. Notice the ball in mid air that fell out while I was shooting another round. Just in front of and just below the cylinder. I have two tins of those RWS BB Caps and each tin has several loose balls rolling around in the bottom of them.

Maybe. I made a tool to crimp some 22 shorts yesterday that has not only a crimping edge but a quasi case sizing portion. . I may try the sizing portion on these.

You too!

I made a small improvement to the Queen. I have been using a beast of a barrel wrench that I made to assist in releasing the frozen barrel from the receiver (frame?). The size was necessary to adequately apply force to break the rust loose.




@forward observer helped me find a suitable replacement. All it needed was to enlarge the hole and cut the notch. I could only get a drill bit that was close so a lot was done by hand. The notch was actually a pain to do. The lug on the barrel is tapered from front to back and to make the notch work the same with either side of the wrench each side of the notch had to be tapered also.

forward observer said:

Dixie gun works still sells a period-appropriate reproduction barrel key for screw barrel boxlocks like yours.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...ategory_id/354/product_name/MA0806+Barrel+Key

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I'll brown it next time I have the rust blue rig out.

Jimbo80 said:

My search for a flintlock that this thread started didn't take me too long.

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Outstanding!

I'm going to guess that was made for the European market. They tended to be made to a higher quality then the trade pistols were. I cant quite make out the name from the photograph. But that looks like engraving and not stamped. We need more pictures. Does the barrel turn off or is it frozen in place? Approximately what caliber is it?

I understand the hesitancy of shooting it. But if it were mine it would go bang unless there was something obviously wrong with it. At least once. I've had mine out a half a dozen times. Best I can do is hit a man sized target at 5 yards. And that is much further than it was designed to shoot. With no sights and that big honken hammer/frizzen in the way, there really isn't any real way to aim it farther.

I'm glad this thread inspired the purchase. Please, more pictures either here or start your own thread. That pistol deserves its own showcase.

I'm sure you've already found this website that provides a history of the Mortimer name/businesses.

https://www.john-dickson.com/available-gun/mortimer-and-sons

"No new guns or rifles are currently produced by Dickson under the Mortimer name but a full repair, restoration and record enquiry service are offered for classic Mortimer guns and Rifles."

So it appears you could make an inquiry about your gun to a company that is a direct descendent of the original company. That is just really cool.

Here is the Dickson & Sons gun history search page. 45 British pounds or $61 US dollars. It'll be a stretch if they have the history all the way back to HW Mortimer or not. But I'd pay the price if I could find a similar company for my Ketland. The history of the Ketlands is difficult to follow. The Mortimer name is pretty straightforward.

https://www.john-dickson.com/gun-history

Johnm1 said:

I'll brown it next time I have the rust blue rig out.

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I forgot that I don't need to convert the red rust to black rust. So I rusted it with some 'Rust Blue' I had on hand over a vaporizer. As impatient as I am, I wasn't looking forward to 10 days of rusting/carding. So I heated the part to less than red hot and quenched it in old/dirty petroleum oil (transmission fluid) and here are the results. A mixture of rust browning and heat bluing. I need to age it somehow. It is too uniform.



Compared to its original state

The site in post 134 has several pairs for sale. Pricing seemed reasonable to me. Well, reasonable to me as long as its somebody elses money. As an antique they advertise international shipping. Not sure what that'd cost though. But, its only money. Your money, but still, just money.

So, do you need help picking out your duelling pistols?

Actually Dickson doesn't have any duelling pistols. But here are a couple

https://www.flintlockcollection.net/h-w-mortimer-4/

Not a set but another Mortimer and only $5,000 an in the United states

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...ock-dueling-pistol-by-h-w-mortimer-circa-1810

Lots to choose from and only 5400 British pounds

https://www.henrykrank.com/antiques...cussion-duelling-pistols-by-h-w-mortimer.html

@Jimbo80 ,

If you buy a set of duelling pistols I will drive from Arizona to Florida to accept your challenge to a modern duel. Two targets, both participants backs to the targets and walk 10 paces, one turns right the other turns left and both fire at the targets. Video in slow motion to determine who's shot hit first and if the second shot could have been made before the first shot hit. Location of shot and time of shots would determine the winner or if both are dead.

I'm just trying to be helpful.

Jimbo80 said:

Just don't get a round trip ticket.

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Now those could be considered fightin words and a challange to my manhood requiring me to defend my honor.

Has the gauntlet been thrown?

Oh, that's right. A beautiful pair as I recall. Pictures please.

UPDATE ON THE TOP JAW SCREW

Although I have been successful in firing the Queen Anne pistol using a smaller replacement top jaw screw wrapped in teflon tape I have been unsuccessful in getting an impression of the stripped top jaw screw. I contacted the Metropolitan Museum of Art that has an almost exact copy of my Queen Anne pistol, but their top jaw screw was as bad if not worse than mine. In another post someone asked about Collectors Firearms in Houston Texas. When I looked at their inventory I found they had a pair of Queen Anne turn off pistols made by ketland that were almost identical to my copy. I contacted them via email and asked if they would be willing to cast one or both of their top jaw screws. And they replied that they would. I offered to send them some Cerrosafe and I'm about to send it off to them tomorrow. Hopefully we can get a decent impression from at least one of their screws. The only possible hold back is if they sense any danger in removing their screw they are going to stop. But at least they will try.

I am certain that a 13/64"x24 TPI will be close enough. What I don't know is the angle of the thread and the shape of the thread. The pictures Collectoree Firearms has on the internet are quite good/detailed and give me some degree of confidence that the threads come to a point. But of course it cannot tell me the angle of that point. I should have something back in a week or two. Once I have the cast the trick will be to determine the actual angle of the threads. I suspect a machinist could measure them accurately. From there it is a matter of Machining a screw to the then known specifications. There are modern 13/64x24 TPI dies available but I don't know the angle or the shape of the threads in the modern die. Once I know what it is I will contact the die manufacturer to find out what they have. I'm not real keen on a custom die for one single screw. But, if I am successful I plan to make at least two screws. One for my pistol and one for the pistol at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I doubt they will ever use it, but they will have a reproduction to replace their stripped screw. I may be testing @Jackrabbit1957 's machinests skills with this one.

Jimbo80 said:

Seems like a million years ago but time was that there were probably a half a dozen guys in your area that could make one. Nowadays it's hard to find a competent gunsmith much less one that knows how to make parts. I wish you good luck with your project!

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The real trick is defining what to fabricate. I'm pretty sure we can find someone to do it once we know what to build. Depending on what is measured and what is available in 13/64x24 dies I may be able to rethread a 12x24 by just buying the die.

I just think it would be so cool if we can date this to revolutionary times. Right now it is firmly in the 1794 - 1799 date range. 1794 the likely earliest import date of a ttrade gun and 1800 when "Ketland & Co." changed to "W Ketland".