Glock triggers - help me please.

.380, generally isn't reliable in anything small. You have to do your homework and figure out what works.

vanfunk said:

Thanks for all your help, guys. Lots of great discussion in here! I had already put the Glock performance trigger in my 17-5, and then the Ghost connector… there’s a minor difference, maybe a 10% improvement? Hard to say. I may try the full-on Johnny Glock package in one and a Timney in another (likely the 17-5 and the 20-5). I will leave the 21-5 stock as it’s one of my home defense pistols. What I can’t stand about the trigger for target shooting, I appreciate for defense. That’s the Glock paradox for me.

Oh, forgot about my 42! I have NO problem with that one as I don’t expect it to do anything other than go bang 7 times fast. My only complaint about that one is that it was not reliable with Magguts 7 round springs/followers.

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Simple solution; keep Glocks for defensive use, and practice only defensive shooting with them. Buy a CZ Shadow 2 or a 2011 type pistol for target shooting, and only shoot targets with it. (Although several 2011 makers make Commander and Officer sized 2011s....)

vanfunk said:

I don’t shoot these guns as well as I’d like because of the trigger, so what can I do? Is there any way to make these triggers a joy and not a nightmare?

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You can improve the trigger or you.

Yes, do you have mechanical skills and tools or were you looking for a "drop in" cure?

vanfunk said:

Ok, first, the disclaimer, then the history, then the question:

Disclaimer: I do not hate Glocks; I have three and want to understand them better and shoot them better.

The history: 25 years ago, I bought a bunch of Glocks; I owned the following: 17, 19, 22, 23, 21 and 30. I liked their utility and thought of them as appliances. I never shot them for groups and preferred “combat” shooting of 7 yards or less. I got out of shooting about 20 years ago and sold a lot of guns, including all the Glocks.

Last year, I got back into shooting as I became semi-retired and had more time for hobbies. I re-acquired three Glocks, a 17, a 20 and 21, all gen 5 MOS models and I mounted red dots to them all.

I like their businesslike nature, their reliability, and they are decently accurate. However, I have an unutterable loathing for their triggers. I don’t know how to describe it except that it’s the worst of everything. It’s not smooth, it feels like running your finger over ground clam shells. The “wall” such as it is, is mushy. The trigger feel, with the dangly safety, is deplorable. The pull is too heavy.

I want to like them and shoot them better, I just put Ghost Ultimate connectors in them and have done the $.25 trigger job as described. They’re still horrible. People say to fire them like a double action revolver. No, the trigger in no way feels anything like a double action revolver. I don’t shoot these guns as well as I’d like because of the trigger, so what can I do? Is there any way to make these triggers a joy and not a nightmare?

Thank you so much for your help!

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We are in the same Gun Boat, I swear!

I’m going to start shooting my Glocks too! It was always my biggest pistol fear. And, could never really shoot them great. Friday! Glock 17 & 17L load test. All stock! Let see how I do

I'm not a fan of stock Glock triggers either. I don't like shape of the face of the trigger and the "mushy" feel just before they break. I can shoot ok with them, and they're perfectly functional, I just don't care for them.
I have a G19 and a G21, both gen3, and they both felt about the same.
It's not really an issue with pull weight, just the feel.

I put Lone Wolf "ultimate" triggers and connecters in both of mine and the feel greatly improved to me. Less take up, less mush, and a more comfortable trigger face.

Triggers are one of those subjective things. What works for one person may not work for another.

I also undercut the trigger guards on my glocks to make my grip more natural

vanfunk said:

My Glocks may not be capable of gilt-edged accuracy but I am sure they are more accurate than I can shoot due to my abject hate of the trigger. That’s what my quest is about here, to understand if there is anything that can be done (that I haven’t already done) to give my Glocks a trigger pull that I can shoot them well with.

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Then quit trying to use a rake to dig a hole..

vanfunk said:

I like the look of that G19, Sir! I’ll look in to the Lone Wolf triggers too. Mark Mark, go for it! Range report due!

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look at this guy run a Glock! if you can run a Glock you can run anything

Equipment vs Skills!

Mark_Mark said:

look at this guy run a Glock! if you can run a Glock you can run anything

Equipment vs Skills!

How to Shoot Insane Double Taps with Bob Vogel

Bob Vogel explains the Vogel Grip and how he controls muzzle rise during rapid fire with Taran Butler.

youtu.be

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Good video. Not a Glock but I have a Dagger (gen 3 G-19 clone). Glock guys like to hate on its trigger. When I went to see my buddy I asked his ex competition shooter neighbor to shoot it & tell me what he thought of the trigger. My friend has a range in his front yard with about a dozen 6" & 8" steel targets & a spinner. His neighbor kept 3 targets ringing & the spinner moving until he had burned through the 15 round magazine. He said it just had a typical striker fired trigger.

Edited to Add: I don't have personal experience with his products but I see a lot of positive posts in the Dagger group I'm in about James McBride & Tactical Pontoon triggers. I've never used an aftermarket trigger on a handgun so I'm somewhat ignorant.

Mike J said:

Good video. Not a Glock but I have a Dagger (gen 3 G-19 clone). Glock guys like to hate on its trigger. When I went to see my buddy I asked his ex competition shooter neighbor to shoot it & tell me what he thought of the trigger. My friend has a range in his front yard with about a dozen 6" & 8" steel targets & a spinner. His neighbor kept 3 targets ringing & the spinner moving until he had burned through the 15 round magazine. He said it just had a typical striker fired trigger.

Edited to Add: I don't have personal experience with his products but I see a lot of positive posts in the Dagger group I'm in about James McBride & Tactical Pontoon triggers. I've never used an aftermarket trigger on a handgun so I'm somewhat ignorant.

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I’m going to run Stock trigger till I can shoot it right. Back to the fundamentals of grip, and front sight… but mostly trigger control

Way back when it was explained to me glock triggers at the time was like pushing a barrel up a ramp. Aftermarket was like pushing a barrel up a longer ramp. Short pull but factory stiff and long pull but easier. I was better shooting factory. But I never owned a target glock. A little bit more accurate defensive hand gun. Why?

Mark_Mark said:

look at this guy run a Glock! if you can run a Glock you can run anything

Equipment vs Skills!

How to Shoot Insane Double Taps with Bob Vogel

Bob Vogel explains the Vogel Grip and how he controls muzzle rise during rapid fire with Taran Butler.

youtu.be

Click to expand...

Bob Vogel shoots a Glock as well as pretty much anyone. He actually has a branded trigger with Glocktriggers.com


I’ve tried Glocktriggers.com stuff. It’s good, but I still much prefer Johnny Glock.

For the money, I really like the Glock Performance Trigger a LOT.

Having tried the triggers on a couple 'target Glocks' (G24 & G34), they aren't any better than a stock G17.

Show Me said:

Way back when it was explained to me glock triggers at the time was like pushing a barrel up a ramp. Aftermarket was like pushing a barrel up a longer ramp. Short pull but factory stiff and long pull but easier. I was better shooting factory. But I never owned a target glock. A little bit more accurate defensive hand gun. Why?

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I’m not changing my FactorGlock trigger. They suck compared to a 1911 but GOLD compare to a HiPoint.

I’m just going to treat it like a DA trigger.

There are tons of things I like and even admire in a Glock. Their simplicity, ease of maintenance, reliability, and beyond just self defense grade accuracy all add up to make them a fine duty pistol. Admiring all those traits, what I loathe most is the trigger. I describe as poking the Pillsbury dough boy in the stomache until he giggles. I'm actually somewhat amazed there aren't far more NDs and accidental shootings attributed to Glock pistols, as I think they are too short of a pull without a manual safety. Alas, what I think and feel doesn't pan out in real world use. Apparently they are, in fact, safe enough for duty carry.

I actually really like DA/SA triggers for duty carry. Long and heavy first pull, ensuring that you REALLY need to take that action, followed by a nice clean SA pull (if you have something decent akin to a Sig or CZ). Alas, even that has issues. It's common to throw that first round low without training to it.

Some have brought up revolver triggers. Glock reminds me nothing of a revolver. Kahr striker pistols do remind me of a DA revolver trigger. A fairly decent trigger at that. Despite all this moaning about Glock triggers, I actually shoot them pretty well. So there's that.

vanfunk said:

Thanks for all your help, guys. Lots of great discussion in here! I had already put the Glock performance trigger in my 17-5, and then the Ghost connector… there’s a minor difference, maybe a 10% improvement? Hard to say. I may try the full-on Johnny Glock package in one and a Timney in another (likely the 17-5 and the 20-5). I will leave the 21-5 stock as it’s one of my home defense pistols. What I can’t stand about the trigger for target shooting, I appreciate for defense. That’s the Glock paradox for me.

Oh, forgot about my 42! I have NO problem with that one as I don’t expect it to do anything other than go bang 7 times fast. My only complaint about that one is that it was not reliable with Magguts 7 round springs/followers.

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The "Glock Paradox" is why I like DA/SA triggers.

HB said:

Glock trigger is what it is… its a duty pistol.

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That's pretty much it right there. IMO, you don't buy a Glock to have fun at the range. It's a combat gun. If you ever really need to use it for what you bought it for, the trigger pull will be the last thing on your mind.

Ben Stoeger on Glock triggers

vanfunk said:

Oh, forgot about my 42! I have NO problem with that one as I don’t expect it to do anything other than go bang 7 times fast.

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toivo said:

That's pretty much it right there. IMO, you don't buy a Glock to have fun at the range. It's a combat gun. If you ever really need to use it for what you bought it for, the trigger pull will be the last thing on your mind.

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For me, all handguns have always been nothing more than defensive tools.

Nevertheless, I used to worry about the "feel" of the Glock, 1911, XD/XDm, PPQ, M&P, and DA revolver triggers I shot.

And for years, I wasted lots of time and money chasing lighter, shorter reset, and glass-rod breaks.

But no more.

Over time, I've learned to care only about accuracy at speed. Trigger control is just one part of an unconscious, automatic flow between making the decisions to "draw" and "fire" and seeing holes appear where I want them on the target. Or hearing the clang on steel.

@vanfunk , if you are into handguns for, say, Bullseye, then build a gun with the finest Bullseye trigger you can. I've never heard of a serious Bullseye shooter who uses a Glock with a stock trigger.

But if you're into combat-style shooting, then I suggest you seek out the zen of automaticity.


For me, the realization that a fine trigger (and so many other hardware features we often stress about here) didn't really matter came when I shot the old IDPA classifier with a G36 and then with a government-sized 1911. Several times each over the course of a few days.

I had trained with and practiced a lot with both guns.

Much to my surprise, the scores were pretty much equal.

If hardware features like trigger break, grip size and angle, sight configuration, sighting radius, weight, etc. that we like to stress about really mattered, the scores shouldn't have been the same.


Now, I shoot a box-stock M&P9.

The only thing I've done to the trigger is to polish out the factory grittiness. And, except when I'm shooting something like a "Dicken Drill" at pretty long combat distance, I'm just not aware of it.

toivo said:

you don't buy a Glock to have fun at the range.

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That would be news to a lot of my friends and acquaintances shooting IDPA, USPSA, and GSSF.

I prefer the 1911 with a striker fired S&W Plastic M&P as fallback. But I have a Glock 43 for concealment.

I'm throwing the towel with my 43x. It's just too snappy for me. It's no fun getting old.

toivo said:

That's pretty much it right there. IMO, you don't buy a Glock to have fun at the range. It's a combat gun. If you ever really need to use it for what you bought it for, the trigger pull will be the last thing on your mind.

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Let Make Glock Fun Again!

I do not claim to be any kind of egg-spurt, but, in my personal case, the important part of shooting Glocks is to grip them well, and the stock Glock trigger pull will more-or-less take care of itself, assuming a Gen4 or newer Glock. (Pre-Gen4 did not fit me, and Gen3 fits me OK, but the grip volume is more than I really like.) I doubt that I will ever shoot a Glock as well as I can shoot a 1911, and I will never shoot either as well as I can shoot a Ruger GP100. I consider a G17 to be as good as anything, for a carry gun, for my personal self, in the real world, with adequate accuracy for most realistically-foreseeable scenarios.

Why do I not carry a 1911, if I am more accurate with a 1911 than a Glock? Well, my 1911 pistols are premium-level pistols, which are tightly fitted. My right hand is getting a bit gimpy, and while all autos are best run with two good hands, this is even more important with tightly-fitted autos. (Sometimes, my right thumb, and/or right ring and little fingers simply do not do exactly what my brain is telling them to do, which points to an ulnar nerve issue.) Plus, I have never found an “ambidextrous” safety, for the 1911, that I truly believe will hold up, in the long term. So, with my healthier left hand becoming more important, in my shooting, I am less likely to carry a 1911. When I do carry a 1911, it seems more important to also carry a second firearm, to back it up. (My 1911 pistols are reliable. It is my aging self that is becoming less reliable.)

I do not always carry a Glock. My usual daily default carry weapon is an S&W Model 64 K-Frame snub-gun, and/or a Ruger SP101, and/or a Ruger GP100.

I might never have bought into the Glock system, but, in 2002, when I had to transition to a different duty pistol, the G22 seemed to be the least-evil choice, among four approved weapons. I eventually transitioned to the SIG P229, but after .40 recoil, plus the high SIG bore axis, became a bit much for my arthritis, I transitioned back to Glock in 2015, the G17 this time, after my then-chief OK’ed 9mm to again be an authorized duty pistol cartridge.

Mark_Mark said:

look at this guy run a Glock! if you can run a Glock you can run anything

Equipment vs Skills!

How to Shoot Insane Double Taps with Bob Vogel

Bob Vogel explains the Vogel Grip and how he controls muzzle rise during rapid fire with Taran Butler.

youtu.be

Click to expand...

Another thing to consider is how worn in Vogel’s trigger is. When you shoot beyond 5K rounds ( including dry fire), things just start smoothing out.

I have a stock trigger in a G23-4 (first Glock I ever bought in 2012) and that gun has well over 13K rounds and that trigger is very smooth. Almost as good as my Glock Performance trigger.