so called cowboy "assault rifles"

Folks should enjoy what guns they have and not worry about guns they don’t own and won’t buy.

Us middle aged and older folks are all getting replaced by younger generations of shooters, and the gun manufacturers that produce these 21st century lever guns know it.
I wonder what it sounded like in the saloon around 1890. "Those new-fangled repeating rifles ain't worth nothin' compared to my Trapdoor Springfield" 😆
 
I wonder what it sounded like in the saloon around 1890. "Those new-fangled repeating rifles ain't worth nothin' compared to my Trapdoor Springfield" 😆
And we all know that the lever gun was the cause of the creation of the phrase "spray and pray".

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I am tired of the made up term "assault rifle". Used by sissies to win over the uneducated to be against something they dont like or are afraid of. At about eleven I was beaten in mercifully by two thugs with a ball bat and a stick of lathe. My dad took me by the hand and we walked the ten blocks to the place it happened. The two pricks wouldn't come out. Their dad threatened v to call the cops. Dad showed his deputy sheriffs badge. He sent the bigger kid out. We went at it. I got in a lucky punch, he cried and ran to his dad.
A year later we were cop captains of the baseball team. Still friends. His dad won't look straight at me. Fuggem.
We didn't kill each other.
I still have an assault softball bat, glove and ball in my car.
Grow up, America!
 
So far, the anti-"assault rifle" campaign has focused on semiautomatic firearms with removable magazines. Nobody has proposed banning bolt or lever guns as "assault weapons."
More of a knee jerk reaction than anything. These threads go off into the weeds pretty fast when a certain word is used. Which incidentally has been defined in some state statues such as this one.

(41)(a) "Semiautomatic assault rifle" means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

Lets try not to confuse the issues
 
But they have proposed banning bolt guns as "sniper rifles."
Yes, but the idea hasn't got much traction yet.

Bolt and lever guns are safe until the antis are done with semiautos.

And they'll never be done with semiautos because there are just too many of them already out there.

If the antis grandfather existing semiautos, it won't make much of a dent because of the numbers.

And if they don't grandfather existing guns, they'll have a 5th Amendment "taking" problem, having to pay fair market value. Even with the government's deep pockets, that wouldn't be practical. (And that's before we even get into the 2nd Amendment aspects.)
 
To me, this is a two-pronged thread.

One prong has to do with the idea of an easy handling, fast cycling rifle with a decent capacity that was available to those on the ranch and range during the turn of the 19’th century. (AKA: a “Cowboy’s Assault Rifle.”)

The second prong has to do with modern takes on the old designs; putting on M-Lok handguards, AR style adjustable stocks, red dots, lights, etc.

For the former, you could say that Winchesters, like the 1873 and 1892, and similar Marlins and the like, were used to defend lives and property from threats ala an AR-15 is now.

As for the second, I am not enamored with those modern takes on my beloved lever guns. But for others, feel free to do as you do. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
In the 1850s a muzzle-loading Springfield was an assault rifle.

The lever action never really had much of a life outside of a sporting rifle. As the OP noted, the Ottomans used the against the Russians in 1877. They were mostly secondary troops (gendarmerie, etc.) and Russia ultimately won. Distance of fire was more important than rate of fire (plus the ability to drop a cavalry horse). If you wanted more bullets down range in the 1870s, you added more soldiers. By the time rapid and compact fire mattered, semi and full auto were well established.

But they are fun and do give fast follow up shots, but after the first 8-10, they are a thumbnail crushing undertaking to reload. I wouldn’t feel inadequate with a Win 94 for defense, but I’d prefer an SKS over it, and prefer a modern AR over the SKS. I’d prefer the Winchester to carry often and use rarely. It’s so light and slim and makes you feel cooler.
 
I don't think this is the direction the OP wanted the thread to take but I have an observation to make.

Folks seem to be fine with the modernization of muzzleloaders from flintlocks to stainless/synthetic inlines with scopes, bolt actions from Mausers to the modern chassis guns used to shoot at insane distances, semi-autos going from the Winchester 1901 to the current crop of "evil black rifles". However, people get real weird when the subject of modernized leverguns come up. Many can't even stomach the sight of them. Why the distinction? The levergun is far more capable as a defensive rifle than it gets credit for, except for a very few. It is still viable as a utility rifle to be kept at the ready at all times and with the addition of a few "modern" features, will serve any role for nighttime defense of the homestead. I bought this Citadel LevTac .45Colt to mount a red dot, suppressor and a light and that is exactly the role it will take. It's sleeker and at least a pound lighter than an AR. There's no detachable magazine to lose and if I need more than 8rds of .45Colt, I need to hang it up.

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This:

Lever guns are an American only thing. While we were playing Cowboys and Indians the rest of the world was using far better rifles and cartridges. The 30-30 was a step backwards technologically, far better options had been available for 4-5 years before it was introduced. They weren't particularly popular nor that common until the Cowboy movies made between the 1920's and the 1970's.

If semi-auto rifles were not an option a version of a Scout type bolt gun in 223, 308 or a similar cartridge is a better choice than a tactical lever gun. They cost less, are more accurate, more powerful, more reliable, can be reloaded faster, and are easier to manipulate from prone or from behind cover. And when fired prone or in any other supported position are faster for repeat shots. Lever guns are only slightly faster when fired while standing up exposed to return fire. Those are the exact reasons lever guns were rejected by the military in favor of bolt guns over 100 years ago.
Mostly fake news from the resident levergun hater.
 
I was taught to shoot by my two granddads, who when young were town marshalls in Oklahoma of the oil boom times. The 1920s and 1930s. At that time Oklahoma was as wild as any place in the old west.
The Doolins of Oklahoma, which was remnants of the JAMES/YOUNGER gang was finally done away with after Oklahoma became a state, in 1907.
They carried and used lever guns as an everday tool for years. I remember them both shooting the eyes out of a jackrabbit at about 25 yards, and killing deer, wild hogs, called razorback in the Ozarks of eastern Oklahoma and western Arkansas.
They taught us to use them, and I have always felt comfortable when carring a good lever gun, and that included my Marlin 1895 45-70 when stationed in Alaska twice
 
Warning Boomer rant ahead…

They’ve taken our most iconic and innocuous looking rifle and made it scary looking. Now the Antis can throw them in the mix with all the other “black is BAD” rifles.

Similar screw-up as when people pointed out that ‘Assault Weapons’ and ‘sniper rifles’ functioned the same way as grand-dad’s old hunting rifles. “Oh, really? Guess we should ban those too!”

Just like Ted Nugent demonstrating how destructive an old fashioned 12ga was. Better put those on the list….

There is an old saying-wise as serpents and harmless (looking) as doves…

Those old “brown guns” may be all we have left. Leave ‘em the hell alone!

Boomer rant off….

Lol
"They" did no such thing. The late Col. Jeff Cooper called Lever Actions, the Long Island Assault Rifle".

"Liberals wring their hands and whine about "assault rifles," which, they say, are the favorite weapon of the Crips, the Bloods, and the Pachucos. A liberal calls any black, ugly, semiautomatic rifle an assault rifle, which is like calling any black, ugly cat a dog.

Many liberals say they don't want to outlaw hunting or legitimate hunting rifles.

Virtually all of those liberals will agree that a Winchester 1894 .30-30 is a hunting rifle.

So there you have it: A wonderful, fast-shooting, accurate rifle just right for blasting Crips, Bloods, and Pachucos in defense of your home, your family, and yourself. This is the Long Island Assault Rifle. Get one today.

Semiautomatic rifles will shoot faster than a Long Island Assault Rifle. But your .30-30 is far more accurate. With practice, you can shoot a Winchester 94 with great speed and accuracy."
Heck, the industry labeled what we now call "Modern Sporting Guns"; "Assault Weapons."

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The problem today is simple. Gun Owners are afraid of gun grabbers to the point that we've changed the names of things in an attempt to appease them.
 
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tell that to the Russians , when the Ottoman Turks kicked the snot out of them using Wincheser 73's in 44-40 while they were using single shot military rifles, as were most militaries of the time
Johnny Turk used the Winchesters in conjunction with single shots. When Russian cavalry would get closer, the Turks would open up on 'em with the lever actions. Also, the Turks used Winchester Model 1866s in .44 Henry Rimfire, not Model 1873s in .44 WCF.

The Turks had range markers laid out and specifically instructed their troops to engage Russian cavalry at certain ranges with certain arms.
 
Between 1915 and 1917 approximately 294,000 M1895's were manufactured for the airforce and police units of the Russian Empire, accounting for about 70% of total production of the rifles prior to 1932 when the M1895 was discontinued. Chambered in 7.62×54mmR, these versions were unusual for a lever-action rifle in that they also had a charger guide, allowing the M1895 rifle to be reloaded by the same charger clips used in the Mosin–Nagant bolt-action rifle. Rifles made for the Russian contract had a longer than standard barrel fitted with an extended forestock and bayonet lug. Initial delivery of the rifles was delayed because adaptation to Russian standards, particularly the charger guide, proved more difficult than expected. Additional delays resulted from incompetent and obstructive Russian inspectors, who refused to use Winchester-made test gauges despite no Russian gauges existing, insisted that test ammunition be shipped from Russia (instead of using readily available Winchester ammunition made on Russian contract), and often rejected rifles for irrelevant flaws such as wood grain in the stock being insufficiently straight. Winchester later sold these rejected rifles on the US commercial market. Russia issued many of their Winchester Model 1895 rifles to troops from Finland and the Baltic states, especially the Latvian Riflemen. At least 9,000 Model 1895 rifles are known to have been provided by the Soviet Union in 1936 to the Spanish Republicans for use in the Spanish Civil War.

Other nations adopted the rifle in more limited numbers. The United States ordered 10,000 in caliber .30/40 Krag for the Spanish–American War, but the war ended before they arrived at the front. These rifles were marked "U.S." atop the receiver ring and fitted with stock furniture similar to the M1895 Lee Navy including the short 8+5⁄16 inches (21.1 cm) knife-type bayonet. Many parts were marked "K.S.M." by ordnance inspector Kelly S. Morse. One hundred of these rifles were issued to the 33rd Volunteer Infantry for field testing in the Philippine–American War. The report of testing completed on 25 December 1899 stated the Krag–Jørgensen was greatly superior for military service. The remaining 9,900 rifles were sold to M. Harley Company and most were shipped to Cuba in 1906. Some of these rifles found their way to Mexico, where they were favored by Pancho Villa’s troops during the Mexican Revolution.

Theodore Roosevelt also personally purchased an M1895 Winchester in .30 Army (.30-40 Krag) during the same timeframe. The Model 1895 in .30 Army was also entered into an 1896 New York National Guard rifle contract competition, but finished second to the Savage Model 1895 due to the Winchester rifle lacking a magazine cutoff and magazine counter. Winchester strongly disputed the results of the contest, arguing that the competition had been rigged in Savage's favor, and the ensuing political controversy led to the cancellation of the contract.
 
Their goals are completely eradicating gun ownership, PERIOD. Lever Actions are on their list too.
Sure, but the antis have to focus on priorities. In the 1960's - 70's their priority was to ban handguns. That proved to be too tough a nut for them to crack, so they shifted to "assault weapons."
 
About the terms, some media have avoided the 'assault' rifle argument by referring to ARs as military style semiauto rifles. There are strict restrictions on lever guns in Australia, if I recall. We all await Scotus to act on AWBs. Wouldn't hold my breath for a positive outcome despite all the Clarence Thomas and Alito love.
 
I don't think this is the direction the OP wanted the thread to take but I have an observation to make.

Folks seem to be fine with the modernization of muzzleloaders from flintlocks to stainless/synthetic inlines with scopes, bolt actions from Mausers to the modern chassis guns used to shoot at insane distances, semi-autos going from the Winchester 1901 to the current crop of "evil black rifles". However, people get real weird when the subject of modernized leverguns come up. Many can't even stomach the sight of them. Why the distinction? The levergun is far more capable as a defensive rifle than it gets credit for, except for a very few. It is still viable as a utility rifle to be kept at the ready at all times and with the addition of a few "modern" features, will serve any role for nighttime defense of the homestead. I bought this Citadel LevTac .45Colt to mount a red dot, suppressor and a light and that is exactly the role it will take. It's sleeker and at least a pound lighter than an AR. There's no detachable magazine to lose and if I need more than 8rds of .45Colt, I need to hang it up.

Nothing but the lever gun got romanticized as heavily to millions of Americans through decades of western serials, western movies, and western TV shows. Which means that entertainment is to blame for much of the “tradition” attached to lever guns.

I like western movies as much as the next guy, but my guns aren’t bought due to what I see on a screen.
 
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