fistful
member
Why do AK's, AR's, Enfields and other military rifles seem to dominate Rifle Country? Just curious. I'm not a hunter, myself, but I like bolt-action sporters more than I do my SKS.
Why more warriors than hunters on the rifle forum?
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Third_Rail
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Personal tastes, etc.... but mostly because milsurps are rugged, cheap, and the ammo is widely available and/or easy to mail order for great deals.
It comes down to being economical, IMO. Plus cheaper = more rifles.
It comes down to being economical, IMO. Plus cheaper = more rifles.
Harry Tuttle
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Cause ya rapidly run out of things to whine about when yer talking bolt action hole pokers.
My ruger m77 is dang boring.
My ruger m77 is dang boring.
El Tejon
Member
High volume/hardcore shooters are more attracted to such weapons.
Stereotypical sport hunters do not train, thus more questions and threads about the weapons you cite.
Stereotypical sport hunters do not train, thus more questions and threads about the weapons you cite.
fistful
member
Sooo...that means bolt rifles are so reliable and straightforward that there's nothing to talk about? Not a rhetorical question.
As Jeff Cooper once put it, the rifles in use now are not terribly different than the one he used when he started hunting in 1937 or so. Glass is better, stainless/synthetic is now available, and new calibers abound, but the basic bolt action hunting rifle's performance hasn't changed much.
Far more people shoot their firearms for the pure pleasure than those who actually use them for hunting.
The numbers of people who hunt has been on the decline for at least the last twenty years.
The number of people who keep and use firearms for the pleasure of the sport has been on the increase during each of those twenty years.
I enjoy hunting but don't consider it the only justifiable reason one should own a firearm.
By the way, you like bolt action rifles, I happen to have a severe soft spot for lever actions.
The numbers of people who hunt has been on the decline for at least the last twenty years.
The number of people who keep and use firearms for the pleasure of the sport has been on the increase during each of those twenty years.
I enjoy hunting but don't consider it the only justifiable reason one should own a firearm.
By the way, you like bolt action rifles, I happen to have a severe soft spot for lever actions.
Carlos
Member
Ohhh, I want a lever action 30-30 soooo bad.
I like em all though, but must admit my favorites are the milsurp semis; FALs, AKs, SKSs.
My best skill level is achieved using bolt action rifles, such as my two mauser actions or the absolute fav or mine - the Mosin.
Couple weeks ago at the Dump, I shot a pump action Israeli 357 rifle. Now, that was a different world altogether.
I LOVE EM ALL!!!!!
I like em all though, but must admit my favorites are the milsurp semis; FALs, AKs, SKSs.
My best skill level is achieved using bolt action rifles, such as my two mauser actions or the absolute fav or mine - the Mosin.
Couple weeks ago at the Dump, I shot a pump action Israeli 357 rifle. Now, that was a different world altogether.
I LOVE EM ALL!!!!!
This is a forum full of frustrated chairborne warriors out there hoping the balloon will go up so we can start actually using our expensive hardware for something other than shredding paper. Deer don't attack, and a bolt gun is a bolt gun. But a street full of shuffling zombies, now that is something to talk about preparing for.
RevDisk
Member
Because when the UN blue helmet zombie bears come to implant a microchip into my neck, I want a high volume of fire.
Are you asking a serious question?
The gun culture in America today is centered on a militia/survivor culture rather than a hunter culture. I think the change began with the babyboomers. Maybe it's because of the availability of military surplus, maybe it's the higher disposable income, maybe it's Hollywood, maybe it's the Cold War. Whatever the reason, we have a very different gun culture than say 40-50 years ago.
The gun culture in America today is centered on a militia/survivor culture rather than a hunter culture. I think the change began with the babyboomers. Maybe it's because of the availability of military surplus, maybe it's the higher disposable income, maybe it's Hollywood, maybe it's the Cold War. Whatever the reason, we have a very different gun culture than say 40-50 years ago.
KaceCoyote
Member
I'm a coyote hunter myself, which means a .223 is my caliber of choice. I've got a simple, no frills Savage bolt action which takes Coyotes quite well with pretty much no surprises. Theres no pre ban, no post ban its a hunting rifle pure and simple. I also dont use this weapon for defence, and Its not super fun.
People dont talk about their work truck, they talk about their hot rod. People dont talk about their school bus, they talk about the Ferrari Enzo.
People dont talk about their work truck, they talk about their hot rod. People dont talk about their school bus, they talk about the Ferrari Enzo.
A lot depends on what discipline appeals to you personally. I like all rifle actions, put I prefer bolt actions for accurate shooting.
That said, I have a friend who owns a Browning lever action in 308, and it is without a doubt the most accurate lever gun I have personally fired.
Autoloaders are fun for me too, and some can be very accurate-as good as just about any bolt gun made, if you have the money.
The one center fire action I have yet to try is the pump-it looks like a lot of fun!
That said, I have a friend who owns a Browning lever action in 308, and it is without a doubt the most accurate lever gun I have personally fired.
Autoloaders are fun for me too, and some can be very accurate-as good as just about any bolt gun made, if you have the money.
The one center fire action I have yet to try is the pump-it looks like a lot of fun!
I think it may ahve something to do with the increasing urbanization of our culture. Folks raised in, and living in cioties are not as likely to have been raised hunting, and are less likely to pursue hunting.
Personally, I think military rifles are interesting, but not important to me. Important in the sense that they do anything practical for me. Hunting guns make meat. In my list of the "most important" or "last guns" I'd keep if limited for some reason, hunting guns are the only ones on my list . I hunt, I live in bear country. I plan to retire to Alalska to live a more rural or even remote lifestyle. Military guns just dont fit my picture of being practical for anything I do. I LIKE them, they are fun, but not practical for me. I'm not a police officer doing entries on crack houses, I'm not in the military, the chancers of screaming hordes of Canadians streaming across the border is slim (for now). My Winchester 94's will just have to do for a "defensive" gun along with my Smith 44 or Ruger 45 SA. I don't feel poorly equipped. Just me.
Personally, I think military rifles are interesting, but not important to me. Important in the sense that they do anything practical for me. Hunting guns make meat. In my list of the "most important" or "last guns" I'd keep if limited for some reason, hunting guns are the only ones on my list . I hunt, I live in bear country. I plan to retire to Alalska to live a more rural or even remote lifestyle. Military guns just dont fit my picture of being practical for anything I do. I LIKE them, they are fun, but not practical for me. I'm not a police officer doing entries on crack houses, I'm not in the military, the chancers of screaming hordes of Canadians streaming across the border is slim (for now). My Winchester 94's will just have to do for a "defensive" gun along with my Smith 44 or Ruger 45 SA. I don't feel poorly equipped. Just me.
Chris Pinkleton
Member
Hey, I'm as "Walter Mitty" as the next armchair commmando in my firearms tastes, but the last thing I want to do is to have to deal with real combat. I love plinking away with my SAR, but I don't thnk it would be nearly as fun with targets that shoot back.
mustanger98
Member
I'm a hunter. I like that type rifles. I also like to shoot M1 Garand, K98k, and Lee Enfield. That said, what some folks may not realize is a lot of deer have been taken with milsurp rifles. Elmer Keith, during early parts of his career, used the US '03 Springfield- stock military and sporterized/rebarreled- to hunt mule deer, elk, and sheep among other things (Source: "Hell, I Was There"). The M1 Garand- in states where the 8rd capacity is legal, or if you can get 5rd clips that work- will also put a deer down with proper bullet placement. That said, I also like my Winchester .30-30 (with Lyman #2 tang sight) real well- it fits me and does what I want it to do with any load I've fed it. Although Elmer Keith wasn't fond of the .30-30 round, he was shooting larger animals at longer distances dictated by the terrain in his part of the country. Around here, I don't have that problem- Eastern Whitetails out to 150yds. I'm not past using a .303 on them too.
fistful
member
Very interesting responses, so far. My own answer to the question is that most of those who like sporting guns are more likely to be on a hunting forum, or out still-hunting, or something, not endlessly talking about the tools they use to earn their meat.
Yes, Gabe, I really am curious. I'm not slamming the semi-auto's - I like some of those, too. I've been hangin' about here for a few months now, and when I first saw "Rifle Country," I expected to see a lot of threads about .338's and Ruger No. 1's. There are some of those, but the AR, AK, FAL threads seem to be the vast majority. I hope to own more guns like those someday (just got an SKS), but I also like bolt-actions, both military and sporting.
Some people have said that the assault/battle rifles are more fun. I guess I'm in the minority, because I have more fun shooting my Mauser scout than I've ever had with a SAW, grenade launcher or M16A2. Just goes to show you, the military can suck the fun out of anything. I think an M1A would be a lot of fun, though, but so would an Enfield or a Krag or a Handi-Rifle - and I don't even like single-shots, in principle. I'm an odd duck, I reckon.
Tuttle, let me take that M77 off your hands. Been dreaming about having one of those beauties. Fun, fun, fun!
Yes, Gabe, I really am curious. I'm not slamming the semi-auto's - I like some of those, too. I've been hangin' about here for a few months now, and when I first saw "Rifle Country," I expected to see a lot of threads about .338's and Ruger No. 1's. There are some of those, but the AR, AK, FAL threads seem to be the vast majority. I hope to own more guns like those someday (just got an SKS), but I also like bolt-actions, both military and sporting.
Some people have said that the assault/battle rifles are more fun. I guess I'm in the minority, because I have more fun shooting my Mauser scout than I've ever had with a SAW, grenade launcher or M16A2. Just goes to show you, the military can suck the fun out of anything. I think an M1A would be a lot of fun, though, but so would an Enfield or a Krag or a Handi-Rifle - and I don't even like single-shots, in principle. I'm an odd duck, I reckon.
Tuttle, let me take that M77 off your hands. Been dreaming about having one of those beauties. Fun, fun, fun!
Simple fact is the vast majority of hardcore "hunters" are just not shooters.
Most hunters are happy if they have a rifle that they can hit a dinner plate with at 100 yards.
That's all they need to take a deer.
Most hunters shoot their rifles less than 15 or 20 times every single year.
I've heard more than one hunter brag about making one box of 20 cartridges last for several hunting seasons.
Why would you need to browse or get onto an Internet bulletin board area devoted to rifles when you shoot your own rifle less than 20 times a year?
hillbilly
Most hunters are happy if they have a rifle that they can hit a dinner plate with at 100 yards.
That's all they need to take a deer.
Most hunters shoot their rifles less than 15 or 20 times every single year.
I've heard more than one hunter brag about making one box of 20 cartridges last for several hunting seasons.
Why would you need to browse or get onto an Internet bulletin board area devoted to rifles when you shoot your own rifle less than 20 times a year?
hillbilly
mustanger98
Member
A dinner plate is about the size of the average deer's kill zone. It really helps, though, if you can group 'em tight in the center of that dinner plate. FWIW, I use paper plates for targets a lot of times, but I also have a .5" dot in the center for POA- the free AOHell CDs that come in the mail make good templates. Believe it or not, a .30-30 at 100yds will group a lot tighter than the size of that plate, but the shooter must do his part. Some people don't understand that, but the guys at the range I go to mostly do.
I don't know about that statistic. Each of us has a different experience depending on who we're listening to. I know I didn't shoot nearly so much before I got into handloading as after. And I got a lot better at it too. As for the guy that said he made a box last several years, maybe he was good at making one-shot kills or maybe he didn't shoot at everything he saw regardless of circumstances like some idiots. I don't know because I wasn't hunting with him.
I don't know, but I do know it's best to know your rifle- it's strengths and limitations, as well as your own- before you try to kill something with it. One shot, one kill. Try not to waste ammo. But then, practice ain't the waste of ammo some folks think of it as.
M1911Owner
Member
It's bleed from the Legal and Political forum.
Mulliga
Member
They're not just more "fun" - they're better for self-defense. Simple as that. If we have to face whatever zombies/civil war/space aliens/black helicopters/etc., a falling-block action ain't gonna cut it.
Can't speak for everyone but I really couldn't care less about your average hunting weapons or such. For me I enjoy reading, learning, and talking about military weapons. But that at least does include WWI and WWII era firearms as well. Maybe it's because I'm a young punk, one who only went deer hunting a few times because it was a good excuse to roam around the woods with my AK?? "iwannacoolgun itis" spreads like wildfire it seems, I've pretty much always had it.
The only "sporting" guns I own are a Winchester 30-30 and Remington 1100 I inherited from my grandfather. And the 1100 would be decidely "unsporting" if I had some extra cash to blow...
I think the hotrod vs work truck analogy was good though, seeing as how I frequent several of the Camaro/Mustang/Corvette message boards as well. Don't particularly see too many websites dedicated to the station wagon, nor too many people excited over ownership of station wagons either...
The only "sporting" guns I own are a Winchester 30-30 and Remington 1100 I inherited from my grandfather. And the 1100 would be decidely "unsporting" if I had some extra cash to blow...
I think the hotrod vs work truck analogy was good though, seeing as how I frequent several of the Camaro/Mustang/Corvette message boards as well. Don't particularly see too many websites dedicated to the station wagon, nor too many people excited over ownership of station wagons either...
sm
member
I'm a '55 model myself , one of them 'babyboomers".
We "used to" instill the Milita aspect, that part about being being able to shoot no matter - men , women and children. We "used to" teach this in schools, with BB guns...but we also brought knives to school, and really neat when the Ben Pearson Bows showed up and we got to learn and practice that too.
I started out competiting with rim- fire rifle as a kid , Model 52 to be exact. Then I touched off a round from a model 70 in '06...."Gunny....I want to compete in this instead - Please Sir!!!"
Then being in the South it was just natural for a Model 94 in 30- 30 to "appear", I mean hell the ctgs grow wild on the roadside and all...might as well shoot the darn things.
I stated on another thread , I pretty much settled on my platforms and calibers early in life....These platforms were instilled in meas as being I might have to hunt for food, protect my home from anything from Riots to the Commies. Some bearded fellow was pointing missles at us....I was a 3rd grader when JFK was shot....
So Society has become more PC, we have more concrete jungles than land to hunt, we have more folks hugging trees ....
Hunting....most folks are "hunting" in the grocery store for that damn dish Martha spoke of that " all you have to do is nuke it". A real bitch to have to actually use a stovetop or oven.
MY fault I never became interested in firearm history , past a certain interest. I do appreciate and do learn from folks sharing. As I get older, I tend to be more interested in these things, part is because of my rebel attitude about synthetic and stainless....
Now it is no secret I have more trigger time on shotguns, I figured when things became more populated, well if stuff got serious it meant more up close and personal...shotgun and a 1911 is good for that.
Don't worry , I may be a bit rusty , but if the blue helmet, mutant zombies need shooting, Gimmee a model 70 in '06, yeah so its Wood&Blue&Leatherslung ....from the distance I nail 'em ....well we won't tell anyone - okay?
If per chance I'm using a model 94 in 30-30 , well I'll have to just make I don't miss so they can't run off and tell everyone " there is a fellow with a antiquated fiream...and he just nailed ole Pierre with a 170 grainer".
Hunting? Warriors?
Hunting might be for food , the fellow that is shooting at you. Warrior attitude, never seen me get serious with targer or game have you?
Goodness, you ought to see how I go after doves or when we had ' em - busting quail with a shotgun.
Them orange clays are evil...I didn't / don't let many go unscathed.
We "used to" instill the Milita aspect, that part about being being able to shoot no matter - men , women and children. We "used to" teach this in schools, with BB guns...but we also brought knives to school, and really neat when the Ben Pearson Bows showed up and we got to learn and practice that too.
I started out competiting with rim- fire rifle as a kid , Model 52 to be exact. Then I touched off a round from a model 70 in '06...."Gunny....I want to compete in this instead - Please Sir!!!"
Then being in the South it was just natural for a Model 94 in 30- 30 to "appear", I mean hell the ctgs grow wild on the roadside and all...might as well shoot the darn things.
I stated on another thread , I pretty much settled on my platforms and calibers early in life....These platforms were instilled in meas as being I might have to hunt for food, protect my home from anything from Riots to the Commies. Some bearded fellow was pointing missles at us....I was a 3rd grader when JFK was shot....
So Society has become more PC, we have more concrete jungles than land to hunt, we have more folks hugging trees ....
Hunting....most folks are "hunting" in the grocery store for that damn dish Martha spoke of that " all you have to do is nuke it". A real bitch to have to actually use a stovetop or oven.
MY fault I never became interested in firearm history , past a certain interest. I do appreciate and do learn from folks sharing. As I get older, I tend to be more interested in these things, part is because of my rebel attitude about synthetic and stainless....
Now it is no secret I have more trigger time on shotguns, I figured when things became more populated, well if stuff got serious it meant more up close and personal...shotgun and a 1911 is good for that.
Don't worry , I may be a bit rusty , but if the blue helmet, mutant zombies need shooting, Gimmee a model 70 in '06, yeah so its Wood&Blue&Leatherslung ....from the distance I nail 'em ....well we won't tell anyone - okay?
If per chance I'm using a model 94 in 30-30 , well I'll have to just make I don't miss so they can't run off and tell everyone " there is a fellow with a antiquated fiream...and he just nailed ole Pierre with a 170 grainer".
Hunting? Warriors?
Hunting might be for food , the fellow that is shooting at you. Warrior attitude, never seen me get serious with targer or game have you?
Goodness, you ought to see how I go after doves or when we had ' em - busting quail with a shotgun.
Them orange clays are evil...I didn't / don't let many go unscathed.
Simple.
AR's, FAL's, AK's are fun guns. They are the guns you would bring with you every time you go to the range. The deer rifles on the other hand only go to the range to be sighted in (or maybe that's just me).
Other than the semi-autos the bolt actions appeal to me. There's something about moving a bolt back and forth that feels good.
AR's, FAL's, AK's are fun guns. They are the guns you would bring with you every time you go to the range. The deer rifles on the other hand only go to the range to be sighted in (or maybe that's just me).
Other than the semi-autos the bolt actions appeal to me. There's something about moving a bolt back and forth that feels good.
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