Are normal army units not allowed to act in the US?

They are, and have been used in many disasters (82ABN to Florida after Andrew, etc). The prohibition is that of law enforcement (the military was much too successful during post-Civil War reconstruction, so laws were put in place to prevent their use for that purpose). Activating a Corps or Army HQ along with a division HQ or so per state would provide the communications and information skeleton to effectively control and deploy resources for this current disaster. At least there would a functioning chain of command and a single person in charge. Right now it appears as an self-organizing event comprised of individuals and small groups trying to do good. But that can (and is appearing to) be chaotic. Exactly who IS in charge? Anybody know of a name? An agency? I've heard of many participating groups and units, but that is about as efficient as any committee.

Right now it appears as an self-organizing event comprised of individuals and small groups trying to do good.

Click to expand...

I'd be inclined to call it "self-disorganizing."

With few exceptions the Active duty are not permitted to perform any law enforcment details on US soil, some exceptions are nuclear or chemical and biological incidents. The Navy has moved a hospital ship into port near New Orleans. At this point it would not be a great idea to use unarmed soldiers for a humanitarian mission "boots on the ground" , situation is not stable.

http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5

An Act of Congress could temporarily suspend the Posse Comitatus Act and allow the Armed Forces to be used as law enforcement. I think they would be better utilized as logistics, surveillance, and intelligence assets rather than as untrained and heavily armed LEOs, and such use would not require an Act of Congress.

The military is the agency of choice when one needs to create a usable intrastructure, quickly, where none exists. As for law enforcement, either the currently constituted civilian LEOs will have to start doing their duty, or others (possibly military--or the citizens of the community) will do so, so that recovery can begin unimpeded by sniper fire.

The legal restrictions of Posse Comitatus could be dealt with but there are plenty of NG troops to do the policing.
They are not going to get any coordinated federal help until they can sort out who is in charge, and thats the biggest prob, no one is in charge. Hizzoner and the Gov have probably been fighting over allocation of resources when neither one knew what to do with them anyway. Probably don't have competant staff to advise them either.

Best example:
All those reporters seem to be able to get to the superdome or onto the interstate to interview the refugees but no one can manage to get a boatload of food or water in there.
No one in the superdome is maintaining any kind of order, look at the trash scattered all over the place to see that.

No one has the cojones to tell the police to actually do anything. The police are afraid to act independantly. A common occurance when you run an operation like a city. Waaay too much patronage and little ability. Folks that are used to having political direction usually have difficulty operating in those conditions.

Sam

National Guard does not fall under the Posse Comitatus IIRC as long as it is still under state control. So, for example, the Louisiana governor could call up the Louisiana National Guard (which he did) to police the area, but Bush could not call up the California National Guard and make them do it, as I understand it. Of course you have to take that with a grain of salt because as far as I know there are active duty military assisting in the effort. Perhaps there role is limited, I'm not sure.

Middy,
I agree. I don't want to open that can of worms. Keep the military for the support functions. This will leave the locals, the NG and other LEO to do the job.

GEN Vessey, when he was the Army VCofS, once said, "what we need to do is determine what needs to be done, then do it. All too often, we just do stuff."

As long as there is no one in charge to determine what needs to be done, we'll just do stuff. The old adage, if in charge, be in charge, applies. First, the President needs to find that man (or woman). You won't find it in FEMA, or a Cabinet Secretary, or at the state level. Those are political jobs. They maintain the status quo. They don't solve problems.

No one has ever been prosecuted under the Posse Comitatus Act. Not ever! Not in 140 years!!

The regular Army has been used to enforce the law in the past. From the Chicago Red riots around the turn of the past century, to the Bonus Marchers in the 1930's, Detroit in the 1960's, Waco in the 1990's, etc.

The Code of Federal Regulations permits the use of armed forces to enforce
civil laws to "prevent loss of life or wanton destruction of property and to
restore governmental functioning and public order when sudden . . . civil
disturbances, disasters, or calamities seriously endanger life and property
and disrupt normal governmental functions,” and local and state authorities
are unable to adequately respond. See 32 CFR § 215.4c(1).

Donlap, right as long as it's under State control.
IF you look back to the other major diasters, there was a central person willing to take control. THIS HASN'T HAPPENED. Hizhorror didn't bother to try and stop the lawlessness until it became a national issue.

I know there was a problem with command and control, but he could have done what the mayors of the cities in Mississippi did. The declared "martial law" now that's not legal, but the cirminals get the message. You act up and you're not going to do it again. NO said, "will not be allowed" and if you don't understand it, we'll tell you again as you walk off with TV, tennis shoes, computers.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "Tank" with James Garner?

"Are you calling me a pu$$y communist?"

"An Act of Congress could temporarily suspend the Posse Comitatus Act"

Not necessary. The President can and has directed active duty military deployments to the incidents listed.

The persons "in charge" of this operation are the Gov and the Mayor. The Dept. of Homeland Security is in charge of making available the federal assets he has to state and local authorities. Waddya wanna bet these tool sheds are not reelected?

Should Bush just take over? Well, stepping on the local's toes won't make him popular, and staying out of it earns him critical marks too. I think he acted correctly-at least until the locals really goof it up and can't get it unsnarled.

Looks to be a big difference between the mayor of surf city and Rudy out of NYC, no?

This is a regional disaster and requires a national effort. And, frankly, excepting Halley Barbour, it's been a pitiful showing at the large city/state level. The Feds? Non-players. Rudy might very well be the person to tap for this job.