Why the 1911?

Why the 1911? I don't own one but two words make me want one...

The trigger. My Glock is combat accurate to beyond 35 yards, but after firing a,"crisp 1911 trigger", Glocks still rock but the trigger pull felt like it was 2mm of non stacking heaven...

I still prefer the Glock for concealed carry, as it is a little more,"robust/tolerant of abuse", carries more rounds per mag, is cheaper, easier to clean, and ready out the box in my experience,YMMV. May still get a 1911 for around the house wear and range use though...Or for if open carry ever becomes popular again.

1911's are sweet, just not for concealed carry IMHO, thank goodness for Too Many Choices!?

idahoberetta9000s said:

I think that the above mentioned companies offer superior designs when compared to the 1911.

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Well, I guess you thought wrong then huh ?

That's OK, it happens to some of us now and then

Ro-Bust

Quote:

I still prefer the Glock for concealed carry, as it is a little more,"robust/tolerant of abuse",
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OOH! OOH! OOH! I'll take some of that action! Follow my '43 Colt through a 5,000 round "Beat it to Death-Do or Die" torture test. No cleaning or oiling until the halfway mark. Hot pistols go into the water to cool every 150 or so rounds. Follow the leader if you dare. Loser pays for the ammo. Shall we agree on PMC or Winchester "Q" code hardball? Bring many magazines.

I still prefer the Glock for concealed carry, as it is a little more,"robust/tolerant of abuse",

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How did Glocks do in the trenches of WWI? Did Glocks still function after being carried through the surf zone landing on Omaha Beach? Did they function perfectly at Frozen Chosen, or compile a good record in the triple canopy jungles of Viet Nam?

I think the biggest factor is, NOTHING (autoloader) comes close to a well tuned 1911 trigger.

Of course, theres also the grip, grip angle, ergonomics, its thin, its customizable, it shoots very smoothly, and oh boy... its got soul

Too Many Choices!? said:

1911's are sweet, just not for concealed carry IMHO, thank goodness for Too Many Choices!?

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They're not for CC? Maybe not for you. As for me, I'm 6ft tall, weigh in at around 160 lbs, and CC a 5" Kimber.

After thousands of rounds put downrange all I have to do is to look at my groups. The difference between the 1911 in my hands and anything else I own is palpable.

When I was a young soldier I showed a propensity for fieldcraft and marksmanship. I quickly found myself in the Scout Platoon of my battalion, where I was given two weapons. The first was an M21 rifle. The second was an M1911A1 pistol. I certainly wasn't the first owner of the pistol - the parking was wearing thin or worn off at some points, one of the grips was cracked, the spring was weak and when you shook it, it sounded like a tamborine. But it was a .45 and now it was MY .45. Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet so I drove around Fayetteville to a couple of gun shops to talk to the 'smiths about what I could do on my own to improve the pistol. Even in the caveman days of the early '80's there were plenty of aftermarket parts available for 1911's. I wound up buying a new spring, barrel bushing, firing pin and mainspring. The smith gave me a book on assembly/disassembly of the pistol (With pictures!! As an 11 Bravo, pictures are important.) That Monday, just as we had many Monday's before we drew our weapons and did weekly mainteneance. I quickly squirrelled myself into my room and changed out all the worn parts of my pistol.

Morals of the story:

The 1911A1 is the greatest pistol ever made.

Many gunsmiths are familiar with them

Aftermarket parts are plentiful and not that expensive

Detailed guides (WITH PICTURES) are available

Never leave a young paratrooper to his own devices

Sorry for the long post,

Mike

1911's only have two negative points. They are heavier than most newer designs and hold less rounds. However, both points are lessened somewhat if you choose a 1911 with an alloy frame and go with reliable 8-round magazines. The positive attributes of the design (excellent trigger system, controllability, ergonomics) outweigh the negatives unless a double-digit magazine capacity is really that important to you.

They're also great because they can be double-tapped faster than this forum.

I'd just like to say, ergos are subjective cause I think they suck on the 1911. It points low even with the arched mainspring. To me, the best of the best ergos is in the P08 Luger, though it's outdated as a carry gun and it doesn't have enough barrel weight for my tastes. The grip angle is much better in MY hand, though, than any 1911.

No other handgun has such a vast and varied combat experience.

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Beg to differ. In the WORLD, the P35, John Brownings own great improvement on the 1911 in every way, has been adopted by many more countries. It has seen much more service in much wider variety of climates. Even JM Browning conceeded to the 9mm on this one, too.

edit: I'll take the "in every way" back. IMHO, the trigger is better on the 1911, or can be made better anyway.

Beg to differ. In the WORLD, the P35, John Brownings own great improvement on the 1911 in every way, has been adopted by many more countries. It has seen much more service in much wider variety of climates. Even JM Browning conceeded to the 9mm on this one, too.

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The P35 may have been adopted by more armies, but hasn't been in more places. The M1911 has been in combat from Siberia to South America, and all places in between.

Vern Humphrey said:

The P35 may have been adopted by more armies, but hasn't been in more places. The M1911 has been in combat from Siberia to South America, and all places in between.

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I'd need to see some comparative documentation and comparisons of theaters of war before I'll swallow that one. Might be true, but half the world has used the Hi Power. I'm quite sure it's been all over the planet at one time or another.

"Even JM Browning conceeded to the 9mm on this one, too."

Not even. FN was going after government contracts in Europe, or so that was the original reasoning behind the caliber choice.

I don't think the 1911 was issued more, but it had to be pretty close. The MAPP program of the 50's/60's would see to that. We gave out a lot of WWII military arms to a whole lot of countries. As for buying new manufacture, I think the HP might beat it.

I guess they didn't get to test the trigger pulls side by side with a 1911

Actually, the last HP I fired was a seldom shot example made back in the early 90's, and while the trigger was no gold cup, it really wasn't bad. Accuracy was good too.

Browning's P-35

MCgunner said:

I'd just like to say, ergos are subjective cause I think they suck on the 1911. It points low even with the arched mainspring. To me, the best of the best ergos is in the P08 Luger, though it's outdated as a carry gun and it doesn't have enough barrel weight for my tastes. The grip angle is much better in MY hand, though, than any 1911.



Beg to differ. In the WORLD, the P35, John Brownings own great improvement on the 1911 in every way, has been adopted by many more countries. It has seen much more service in much wider variety of climates. Even JM Browning conceeded to the 9mm on this one, too.

edit: I'll take the "in every way" back. IMHO, the trigger is better on the 1911, or can be made better anyway.

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The P-35 was started by Browning, but most of the development was done long after his death, including the external extractor. He "conceded" to the 9mm because that was what the customer asked for...just like the US Army asked for a .45 caliber pistol. If the demands had been reversed, the 1911 would have been a 9mm pistol and the High-Power would have been a .45

Whether it's really much of an improvement is still debateable. In some areas...possibly. As a pure fighting tool...doubtful.

Concur with Vern's statement. The P-35 may have been adopted by more, but I seriously doubt that it has seen anywhere near the real action. Main reasons being that the European military forces...whichever country...
view the pistol in a much different light than the US did when the 1911 was adopted. It was to be a weapon, rather than a symbol of rank...and it was deployed as such. In WW1, it was a primary weapon for horse-mounted cavalry, and also used to good effect during small-unit night raids across No Man's Land into German trenches. Even in WW2, the pistol was often chosen over the M1 Carbine, which was intended to replace it. Ask a veteran rat of the tunnels of Cu Chi if he'd rather carry a .45 or a 9 into the tunnels.

Don't misunderstand...I like the P-35 as well as any autopistol out there and better than any of the recent offerings with the possible exception of the older 92 Beretta...but if I have to choose one, I'd have to go with the 1911, and not just because I love it and have years of experience with it.

Cheers...ya'll.

"the demands had been reversed, the 1911 would have been a 9mm pistol and the High-Power would have been a .45"

What the hay, Tuner. If somebody had asked JMB to design a 1911 in 3 inch 12 gauge, I'd have been real hesitant to bet against the man. To me, John Browning is one of those rare, talented persons you sometimes hear about.

Like one of those people who can play a piano tune if you just humm a few bars, or the artist who can really make a picture jump out at you. JMB's vision was metal and wood. Wonder what he would have been able to do with all the fancy new metals, plastics and wood out now?

Heard an unsubstantiated rumor one time that JMB held more firearms patents than any other single American.

Winchester should have kicked their own butts for decades for letting Browning go to FN. PAY THE MAN, FOOL! If they had paid the royalty on a per weapon sold basis instead of a flat fee, Win still would have made a lot more money. But, they did get a lot of his genius in the various lever guns, pump shotguns and what have you.

So, which was more issued, the 1860 Colt Army or the 1911? The old colt has a heck of a war record. I think I'd rather carry THAT than a Glock. It's seen more service.

(satirical comment on out of date designs used in service)

Why the 1911? I have several other pistols in 45 acp but the 1911 has a place among all my guns. I think it is because of their versatility, function & potential and tradition.

MCgunner,

I can see your point in not liking the 1911 as it doesn't fit you hand. To each his own. The 1911, however, fits me extremely well, I'm comfortable with the controls, and frankly don't think it's as outdated as some folks seem to think. As for the sarcastic comment about the 1860 Army, the only drawback is speed of loading. Solve that problem and you once again have a viable weapon. Newer is not always better. Sometimes, new sucks.

1911 guy said:

O.K., if you don't like the 1911, that's fine, but please don't bash the pistol or those of us that prefer them over newer designs.
Having said that, I prefer 1911's because of the shot to shot consistancy in trigger pull, the weapon fits my hands well, it's slim profile carries well in a duty rig or for CCW, the platform is easily customizeable, I like the round it's chambered for and I like the peace of mind the afety features give. Unless I make a mistake, the pistol is not going to "just go off". I'm not saying others do, but I like the thumb and grip safeties.

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Ditto!

I can shoot one better than any other gun. I can outshoot 99.9% of the gun owning population with my obsolete 1911s. So there.

Difference between older and newer Beretta 92F's? 1911tuner?

well, whats the difference, tuner made reference to it in a 1911 thread and I am curious now.

idahoberetta9000s said:

I didn't ask the question to bash 1911's, but it seems to me that they are the most popular 45 out there, and i was just trying to get some insight as to why that is.

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Well, I have seen you say how much they suck on other posts, and they're horrible, and you'd never own one, whatnot . . .

Remember the 80's, and the IPSC race? Gun manufacturers would literally GIVE ranked shooters guns, and ammo, and subsidize them if they would shoot and promote their products. Folks tried to make the other gun platforms work. When the dust finally settled, the 1911 still reigns in that competition, for reasons other than power factor.

I'm not into IPSC at all, but it brought to light one fact. The 1911 has the longest service life of nearly any other handgun, at least long enough to last more than one shooting season for those who are actually competitive. It can be altered and configured to filt nearly every hand.

My preference for it, among many, is seen as a drawback by most - the slim single stack magazine makes it very comfortable to carry. If you carry weekends and evenings, you can make do with a big bulky grip and slide. But those internal locking lugs and slim profile make it possibly to comfortably carry a 1911 every waking moment.

MCgunner said:

I'd need to see some comparative documentation and comparisons of theaters of war before I'll swallow that one. Might be true, but half the world has used the Hi Power. I'm quite sure it's been all over the planet at one time or another.

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The US fought in every theater of war in WWII, except the Russian Front. We did fight in Siberia, however at the end of the First World War. We also conducted operations in Russia, itself.

The M1911 got its baptism of fire at the battle of Bagsak Mountain in the Philippines in 1913, and served in Mexico, Haiti and a few other places before entering the trenches in WWI.

Lots of armies may issue the P35 -- but many of those Armies have never fought (the Singapore Army is an example) or have done little fighting in the last half of the 20th Century.