Noob Q. What is 1911?

[AtomSphere]

IS 1911 some gun design that alot of firearm manufacturers buy over (buy the rights) and make their own verysion of 1911? I see 1911 from para ordanance, springfield etc etc. I thought 1911 are from only one manufacturer

Which brand is the most popular. I m looking for a range gun and a suitable handgun for IPSC.

 

[bratch]

The 1911 is a John Moses Browning(JMB) designed pistol. It was the US military's issued pistol from 1911 until the M9 was adopted in the 80s I think. It is a single stack, single action, .45ACP in its original form. Lots of people make them but Colt is the original.

Now someone will be along with a much more thorough explanation.

 

[AtomSphere]

thanks for the insight. Now that i know its a design.

So generally speaking, which brand proved to be the most reliable with little or no jams?

 

[bratch]

Your opening up a can of worms with that question buddy

All of the big manufacturers(Kimber,Colt, Springfield, Smith and Wesson) put out pretty solid guns and they all have a few lemons.

With a gun that is nearly 100 years old a few of the manufacturers have made slight changes to the design. Some people hate the changes,some tolerate them, and some love them. Kimber and Smith and Wesson produce slightly modified 1911s.

For best reliability and fewer troubles stick with the 5" Government model.

If your interested in one do your homework decide what you want and buy it. There are ALOT of options.

 

[AtomSphere]

is there any 9mm solutions for the 1911s?

 

[ugaarguy]

AtomSphere by 9mm options I assume you mean 9mm Parabellum, or Luger if you prefer, which is 9x19. Yes they are available from the factory from several manufactures. In the 9mm diameter bullets 38 Super, 9x21, is available as well. Colt even made some small pistols based off the 1911 design in 380 Auto, 9x17. There was also the Colt Delta Elite, a 1911 in 10mm. You can get factory 40 S&W 1911s too. In the close to 100 years the design has been around people have come up with more modifactions than you can think of. If you can dream it it either has been done or can be done to a 1911. They have more add-ons available than a Honda Civic for both looks and functionality. Check out www.m1911.org for tons more info. On a further note, John Moses Browning was the most influential gun maker ever. The tilt breach locking system he designed on the 1911 is used by almost every major semi auto pistol made since. He also gave us the Browning/ FN Hi Power; the original double stack hi cap 9mm pistol. Further, he designed the model 1917, '18, & '19 series of 30 cal machineguns as well as the M2 50 cal machinegun still in use by the US Armed Forces to this very day (and well into the forseeable future). Variations of the 1911 are still in use by the US Marines and reportedly several US Special Operations units as well. FYI, be ready for lots of opinionated respones; people have deep feelings about the superiority or inferiority of the design. The 1911 aficionados are even deeply opinionated on what the "right" way to set up a 1911 is. I should be picking up my first 1911 here soon and I'm looking forward to all the fun and frustration of getting it set up just right for ME.

 

[geekWithA.45]

AtomSphere brings up a good question regarding the intellectual property on JMB's design.

Is it licensed from ..er...Colt?

Was it patented, which then expired?

Or was the design public domain to begin with, being on the army's dime?

 

[Nashmack]

To address the question posed by AtomSphere about 9MM 1911s, I'm familiar with the Star pistols. I almost bought a Star model BM which is based on the 1911, only in 9MM parabellum. Star also made 1911 pattern pistols in 9x17 (.380), .38 super, and 9MM largo.

 

[max popenker]

the M1911 design was based on few patents by John Browning, with latest IIRC being dated to 1910 (guess what, they expired looong ago). Also, with the adoption of design by US military i suppose that US Gov't had some rights to it, as some other companies made 1911's for US military before WW2, including private companies (i.e. Remington-Rand) or state armories (Springfield, the original one).
Unlicensed copies of 1911 were made elsewhere (mostly in Spain) since 1920s, and licensed copies were built in Europe (Norway, since 1914) and South America (Argentine, since late 1920s or early 1930s).
In USA, commercial clones were made by other's than Colt since after WW2 (military issue guns were made by multitude of US companies during WW2)

 

[AtomSphere]

that explains to me everything i needed to know, thanks

 

[MICHAEL T]

Just get a COLT in 45acp and you will have all you need. Remember others made today are copies. And yes those made in WWII other than Colts are copies but they were made to orginal Military specs same as Colts and they worked fine and I would be proud to have one next to my Colt USGI Un like the tinkered with over tight ones of today..

 

[AirForceShooter]

I passed up a Star at a gun show for $150.
Still kicking myself.

AFS

 

[AtomSphere]

i'll go to the range to test out a 1911, Baby Eagle and a XD9....

All looks equally good in my POV.... So have to see what i like and which is more user friendly towards me...

 

[k_dawg]

Well, most of what Colt is making today, are copies as well.

And, like most.. they are not even authentic copies. There are a few pretty-true 1911 and 1911a1's thou.

 

[cavman]

I was checking out Springfield Armory and they claim that their GI 45 is "nearly" identical to the WWII GI

and that the mil-spec is "a faithful recreation" of JMB's original 1911-a1

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-ms.shtml

 

[bratch]

The SA pistols have a lock on them but it is easily changed out. Both the GI and MilSpec are supposed to be great pistols for the money. Each fit a slightly different niche.

 

[AtomSphere]

springfield's 1911 FULL sized 9mm pistol looks very attractive. But Some have fixed sights. Not of much good if u dropped you handgun on the sights right?

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Fixed sights are more likely to survive a fall than adjustible sights (although they do make a few beefier models). Fixed sights are adjusted by hitting the side of them with a punch until they are lined up properly and then fixing them in place. Sights are cheep (anywhere from $20 to over $150) and can be installed by any gunsmith. So, if you can find the gun you want with the sights you like for a good price buy it. However, if you find the gun you want and it doesn't have the sights that you like, it is not hard to replace them.

 

[GoRon]

Some places to check out for 1911 newbies

This forum is all 1911
1911Forum.com

This one has both a lot of info and a forum board.
m1911org

 

[AtomSphere]

which brand of 1911 is cheap and good?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I was checking out Springfield Armory and they claim that their GI 45 is "nearly" identical to the WWII GI

and that the mil-spec is "a faithful recreation" of JMB's original 1911-a1

The Springfield GI is closer to the M1911A1 than the Mil-Spec. The Mil-Spec has a lowered ejection port, improved (meaning not authentic, period-correct) sights, and a few other differences. Plus it's available in stainless -- which was never part of the military specification. How they decided to call a series of pistols that intentionally departs from the military specifications in multiple regards "Mil-Spec" is beyond me, but companies apparently pay marketing types big $$$ to dream up lies like this.

which brand of 1911 is cheap and good?

Springfield. The GI is the least expensive, but the Mil-Spec gives you a bit more in terms of desireable options for not a lot more money.

However, IMHO the best of the budget 1911s are the Rock Island Armory (RIA) pistols manufactured by Armscor in the Phillippines. They are less expensive than Springfields, and probably just as good (if not better).

 

[AtomSphere]

thanks for your reply. In terms of reliabiliry, how good is it? Sorry i forgotten to mention the caliber of 9mm.

I want a 1911 that is accurate(good sights), minimal jams, and works well with reloads.

 

[miko]

Now that i know its a design.
So generally speaking, which brand proved to be the most reliable with little or no jams?

Generally speaking, 1911 is a crappy obsolete monstrosity of interest mostly to the hobbyists that love to tinker and socialize while discussing how they manage to make their particular piece work, with only a few thousand dollars worth of modifications.

If you want a reliable gun of the same size, weight and capacity that is accurate and suffers no “jams”, get a 7-shot S&W 686 4” barrel revolver. As a side benefit, you will be able to use much more powerful and effective .357 Magnum ammo with radical hollow-point bullets - though you can get a revolver in .45 as well.
You can keep shooting if someone grabs your barrel or you press it against something, you can keep shooting limp-wristed (weak or wounded arm), you can keep shooting if one of the rounds is a dud.

If you do want to go with an automatic to shoot it, go with something like H&K. Of course you will not be able to discuss it with your buddies since H&K shoots accurately and reliable out of the box – so you will have to talk about women and sports instead.

<pulling on flame-resistant suit>

miko

 

[AtomSphere]

eh... sorry pal... I don't have much intrest in revolvers.

 

[Jamie C.]

Actually, AtomSphere, from reading your posts I'd say you need to take a look at a Hi-Power.

It's the closest thing you'll find to a reliable 9mm 1911.
( I'm not picking on a 1911 here. They were designed for .45 acp, and work best in that caliber, IMO. The Hi-Power, on the other hand, was intended to use 9mm para from the get-go, and operates pretty much the same as the 1911. )

J.C.