Felons and gun ownership

A felon can't even possess a firearm, let alone buy one ... I suspect that a felon could start up a corporation and buy some NFA items ... he just couldn't ever touch them.


They leave G. Gordon alone when they could probably bust him (like at the range) but I doubt they'd leave a felon alone with a machine gun.

Not sure, but I think the corporation bit is just a way to skip some of the hassle - no CLEO signature required. The purchaser has to pass the check... may just be NICS for a corporation, but probably the same rigamarole as the others are. You have less things to do if you purchase it for a corporation, but I'm sure you've got to pass the NICS at the least. Liddy might be able to be a member of that corporation, but he couldn't be the purchaser, from what I understand.

Dunno, but I don't think Felons should for any reason have guns...good way to keep the rest of us from committing felonies..

Dunno, but I don't think Felons should for any reason have guns...good way to keep the rest of us from committing felonies..

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I agree, for violent felons.

Agreed that only violent felons should be kept from possesing. Also in Texas felons can possess a weapon (only in their home) after 10 years of being fully released from correctional supervision.

However regardless of TX law wouldnt that felon be breaking federal laws?

loop-hole

Some states laws are written that a felon can't own a firearm, but, muzzleloaders are considered a replica and are legal for felons to own even though it's still a gun

When you buy a firearm on the behalf of a corporation, you still need to be able to pass the NICS check, and the 4473 is filled out with your info, and then it is marked (either on a form or an attachment/ letter, I forget which ) that it is a corporate purchase.

From the Critter's POV

Well, since I'm a felon, I guess I can shout out to this, at least from a Minnesotan POV.

Here's what I've been told by the Powers That Be (AKA the people who will toss my butt in the can if I screw up) and what I've read.

I know that MN, like Texas, used to have a loop-hole about felons being able to own firearms 10 years after their release. This loophole was closed in 2003 to the best of my knowledge, so that if you were released after August 10th 2003 then it's a lifetime ban, but before then you were still under the old law (Irony: My release date was the 15th of that month. Sigh.)

It's been commented before, but at least for those of us still on paper (probation/parole) the legalese is that we're forbidden to "use, own, or possess a firearm". So, when Slide Lock or Phantom Warrior are hanging out, they can carry, and they have set down their weapons from time to time, but even picking it up or handling it in any way I would be violating the terms of my release.

So, insofar as we're imagining a world where felons are law-abiding citizens after their release (which is possible but not always the case), then we still can't have access to firearms. If I were to rent or own a house that I'd share w/ a shooter, the weapons would have to be locked and me not have a key, or else I could be busted for possessing a firearm.

Then again, honestly, what percentage of people commiting gun crimes have the weapons legally? 3 or something like that?

One of the reasons that I'm in favor of felons being able to own firearms legally is that the sort of person who would go through the hoops to own one is the sort of person who is much more likely to be responsible with a firearm than someone who'd just own it illegally.

Then again, Lawdog's blog has it right. Critters can be seriously stupid.
I don't think many probation/parolees are on the brightest/most sensible list. Many felons in my area have no-drinks, and to give you an idea of criminal thinking, I'll quote a guy from an old cell block:

Co-Critter: *Whining*. Man, This is *Bleepity bleep*.
Me: So you had a no-drink?
Co-Critter: Yeah. But it doesn't matter. My PO, *name omitted* came in and busted me. I had beer on my table, and in my fridge, and I told her like I told the judge, a man's house is his castle. I wasn't in no bar. They had no right to violate me for having a beer in my own house.

Sigh.

So, with that sort of stunning con-logic... I think the actual laws governing felons and firearms are moot 90% of the time, until they screw up again and then it helps keep them away from teh sheeple for longer cause they prove they can't be trusted at this point.

It may be that in some states black-powder weapons are not considered firearms under the current laws. Again, that USED to be the case here in MN as well, but when I asked about black-powder, I guess that loop-hole was closed a couple of years ago as well.

But, in typical govt. logic, I can still own a bow for hunting et cetera. This makes me chuckle, since I know enough military history to compare and contrast rates of fire and accuracy between black powder and bow weapons.

Some of the guys on federal probation, however, can't own any kind of weapon, period.

I agree, for violent felons.

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I don't like +1's, but.....+1

Dunno, but I don't think Felons should for any reason have guns...good way to keep the rest of us from committing felonies..

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If you realized how easy it was for a law abiding citizen to become a felon you might not be so quick to blanket all felons that way.

Once upon a time, all felonies were serious crimes ... now there's a lot of "procedural felonies" and other silly felonies (for example, I own a kit to convert my Steyr M40 into a carbine. If I simply assemble the parts in the wrong order I've committed a felony).

I have absolutely no problem with felons (who are not in prison) owning firearms.

Felons

I'm caught in the middle. Constitutional rights are inalienable, but what about in the case of breached public trust ? We are all on a system of you don't hurt me, I won't hurt you. Treat others as you want to be treated, John Locke's Law of Nature (it has many forms). However, Thomas Hobbes, noted for his support of big government, distrusted the public. His concept is the Hobbesian Problem of Social Order. Keeping these ideas in mind, should we trust felons with deadly weapons when they have breached our trust by committing heinous acts ?

I have absolutely no problem with felons (who are not in prison) owning firearms.

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Exactly
If you've paid your debt to society why should you have to continue paying?

My uncle is a shooter and my cousin has a stupid non-violent felony on his record. They checked into it with his lawyer to see if my cousin could go shooting with his father. He can't. If he lays a finger on a firearm it's felon in possession. If he is in a car with a firearm locked in a box he doesn't have a key to in it alone it's felon in possession.

Needless to say he is VERY careful.

Another uncle drank too much last christmas and needed someone to drive him and his truck home for him. My cousin wouldn't even drive him home in the uncle's truck cause there were rifles in the rack. I drove the truck and he followed in my car to drive back.

Keeping these ideas in mind, should we trust felons with deadly weapons when they have breached our trust by committing heinous acts ?

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There in lies the flaw in your thinking.

Not all fealonies are "heinous acts". Reference the example I gave before, if I put the stock on my Steyr M40 BEFORE I put the 16" barrel in, I've just committed a felony; manufacture of an unlicensed short barreled rifle.

There are plenty of "crimes" on the books that are classified as felonies that you would be surprised are even crimes, let alone felonies.

I can understand the idea behind not allowing guns to fall into the hands of violent felons, but making the blanket statement that ALL felonies are heinous acts is just not true.

Read the Rand quote in my sig.

Felons

Well, I guess I overlooked non-violent felons. I suppose the laws could be amended for them, but what do we do with the violent ones ?

...but what do we do with the violent ones ?

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Some we should put down.
Some we should lock up and throw away the key.
Some we should lock up for a LONG DAMN TIME and let 'em back out when they're gummers.


Regardless, once you get out of jail you've "paid your debt" to society and that should be that.

But I could live with the law not allowing violent felons to own guns ... don't think it will do any good, but I could live with it.

Well, I guess I overlooked non-violent felons. I suppose the laws could be amended for them, but what do we do with the violent ones ?

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I see no reason to not let them purchase and posess weapons either. If you've done your time you deserve the right to be able to defend yourself just as much as I do. If you aren't reformed we shouldn't be releasing you. And if you aren't reformed and want to commit a violent offense, no gun law is going to stop you from getting or using a gun anyway.

Perhaps we should then change the 2nd and add after 'infringed' to read,
"Unless society labels you a felon", next an etc in case we think of something else.

If you have proved yourself to be a violent criminal threat to society, you should be either executed or locked up until you no longer pose a threat.

If you are free to walk the streets, you should have the same rights as anyone else.

It sucks....

I have a friend who has 3 DUI's = Felony.
Its unfortunate that his drinking problem led him to a felony even though he never had an accident nor hurt anybody even one time! Overall I believe he would be a responsible gun owner, BUT, on the other hand.... didnt he choose his path? We all make mistakes, and many mistakes are the type to affect us for the rest of our lives.... What makes a felon any different?
Choices.....

Has anyone ever considered the 1968 GCA that excluded felons from possession came 4 short years after the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The black panthers were a growing criminal organization, the inner city riots were out of control and the KKK was still an accepted white organization for most whites especially in the south. Now 80% of the prison population is black and latino. The wod has made more felons, mostly black, than any time in history per capita. 'Felon in possession' laws came about because of apartheid and has morphed into a gun control philosophy for all because it is mostly accepted history considering the 2nd bans infringement for all men? Nowadays most people think that felons have never, ever, been allowed to possess firearms from the beginning of time and all felonies are dispicable, violent crimes.

I don't have any answers but I believe violent felons should be locked up for a long, long time so they can't have possesion of any firearms. The crimes that are worst than misdemeanors, ie stealing millions from stockholders, maybe should get a new classification between the two and a whole hell of alot of felonies should be reclassified as misdemeanors. When we label citizens 'felon for life' and take away rights and employment opprotunities because of that label, forever, we sentence them to poverty and in their mind a reason to continue criminal behavior all over alot of nonviolent, victimless crimes.

Paid Debts

I see a lot of people making the argument "they've paid their debt to society when they are released". To those who say this, you do realize that actual time served is frequently much less than the actual sentence due to good-time credits and overcrowding ?

I've got a friend who got drunk and tore up a golf course in a golfcart....at 4am... He got jail time for it! (he had a long juvenile record) and felony charges because of the cost of the damage done. He's not a violent person and i believe he should be allowed to own a firearm to defend his house and family. That said, i dont think that any violent felons should be allowed to own firearms.