What keeps you from being involved?

Help me understand why there's a lot more talk than walk going on.

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Because talking is louder than walking. There are a lot of people who you never hear of, and will never hear of, that are doing more than the folks who are shooting from the lip.

I host a militia training session every month. So count me in as being "very involved."

See my signature line. Short of working for the NRA full time somehow, I don't have time to do much more, as I already have 3 jobs as it is. The hunter-ed classes alone require at least 20 hours per month.

I know what you're getting at though. Those that can't even bother to write a letter or make a phone call. If they won't do that, they sure as heck won't give any money or time either. You just have to ignore them, or you'll end up with ulcers.

Barbara, there are many here on THR who share your frustration.

There's one member here (he'll know I'm referring to him if he reads this thread) who has a gaggle of new little kids, a wife who's working countless hours, his own job to deal with, and not a lot in the way of discretionary cash.

Yet, he does what he can, and I'm grateful for that.

Others, though, have time or money or both, yet do nothing. For some, they think that they can't make a difference. Others have an aversion to politics and politicians, an idea that, at least this week, I can understand.

And others are simply content to let someone like you do all the heavy lifting.

The greatest number of emails I've received have been on the days following the defeats of our CCW bill. Almost to a person, those writing asked, "what can I do to help?"

Well, too little, and too late, pal.

I'm curious. Lots and lots of threads here, and quite a good bit of chest beating, but I find when it comes down to it, a very, very small number of THR (and other gun) folks are involved in the political process, or in formal gun rights activism in some way.

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Well, someone finally, in part, echoing my thoughts.

Although, donating money, writing one's reps, and dueling in the letters to the editor pages are nice next steps, it ain't enough. And no, voting for the Libertarian party isn't going to help either. They'll never be enough protest votes to make a difference.

What THR members need to do is form their own local groups -- and get as many people on board as possible. Several years ago, to jump start a local group in my area, using our state's major gun organization, we sent a blind mailing (letter and postage paid by us) to members of the state org in our area. (That was in the pre-internet days.)

The advantages of having your own local group are several. For example, with a spokes-person it can be very easy to get your group quoted in local newspapers on gun issues and candidate endorsements. Especially at the state level and even congressional level you might have a drop-in the bucket influence as to the kind of reps that get elected.

It's a thankless, difficult task, but it's that kind of activity that I think could go a long way towards increasing our numbers and influence. I can only daydream that these kinds of groups would sprout and use the Internet to network and share ideas.

I'm so sick of people blaming the NRA for this or that transgression, when the average gunowner is a major slacker, and yes, those who join the NRA or EVEN their state org are primarily slackers as well. If you really become an activist you'll find that out for yourself. And no, just donating money to a gun org (althought it's better than nothing) or bitching on this gun board doesn't make you an activist.

(And yes, I do know there are THR members who are activists. Sadly, they are truly remarkable exceptions.)

I'm a minor, so people neither listen to me nor care what I have to say.

Why does this question remind me of, "When did you stop beating your wife?"

You have no idea how utterly baffling politics are to a kid who hasn't yet had any experience with college politics courses. I'll go to Wikipedia to read up on a certain process, and within five minutes my eyes glaze over as what I took, on the face of it, to be a relatively simple, minor process turns into a bureaucratic nightmare of multi-tiered majority votes, red tape, shuffling between Subcommittee This and That, to finally end up at its destination more weathered and worn than a hooker in a hotel room full of freshly-released ex-cons.

The idea of politics itself seems a special kind of foppery to me, subscribing as I always have to the "just leave me the hell alone and we'll all get along" policy, but I also realize that wishing for a return to classical-liberal America does nothing to loosen the Dems' (and quite a few of our fellow pachyderms') death grip on irrationality and One-Worldism, so I'd resignedly like to be part of the political process...

...which is pretty well nigh impossible when you have no idea how the process works, what a term means, or what the significance of any given variable is. Trying to deduce who and what to vote for is an exercise in frustration and "why can't I understand this"self-doubt, and I'd like to think that I'm at least capable of making decisions without the aid of an NRA.org RSS feed with everything organized into handy-dandy green-for-yes, red-for-no Bubba tables.

So, I simply step back and leave things, for better or worse, to those who (with any luck) have some inkling of what in hell they're doing when they punch a ballot.

I have gotten involved. But I do not know how to get involved without getting pestered by political groups for money (of which I have very little). I do not know how to get a repsonse from a congressman without getting a form "your concerns are important to us" form letter or turned away at their local office. I do not know how to feel like one vote makes a difference in a state that get lambasted by liberal, gun-grabbing, emotional, non-thinking, line-my-pocket politicians (I vote in Oregon, I do vote, and I research the views of my candidates).

If you can give us all a way and a reason to get involved that makes us feel like we are doing something rather than wasting our time and energy, then let us know. I really would like to be involved, but it has to be worth while.

I get involved by taking Anti's to the range.

I also teach basic handgun safety and marksmanship to battered women occasionally.

Two things:
1. I informally teach (more like tutor in) defensive pistolcraft and defensive mindset.
2. I'm always trying to inform people about 2A issues, and those who know me tend to place great stock in my credibility and the quality of my analytical work. Kind of "let them get to know me personally, then get to know the facts about shooters like the majority of us are intelligent, safety-conscious, responsible people rather thn the stereotypical 'beer-swilling redneck Bubba'" approach. I figure if I can turn an "anti" into a "neutral" or better, as I did several times at my alma mater, that's almost as good as turning a "neutral" into a "pro." And if I can undermine the antis' indoctrination efforts at whatever educational institution I end up enrolled in next...

I'm not sure how to get more involved.

That's closest to my reason(excuse)

In a nutshell. I have bad writing skills, bad verbal skills, and I'm too shy to try and teach people. I can't put my thoughts into words very well, so I'm not good at writing letters. I don't like trying to teach somebody I don't know how to do something, because I'm always wondering if I even know if I'm doing it right. I taught myself everything I know about firearms, and I'm still a novice 4 years later

There are no excuses. If you are not involved you have no right to complain or be upset about the outcome :banghead: However, I also believe in balance and do not expect ones entire life to focus on the political aspect of guns. I say if you are an NRA member, you often write your representatives, you always vote, and you help out with political organizations by doing more than just sending money, and try to further the cause with family and friends that is a good balance. Hell now you dont even have to write letters, websites do that for you, you just need to print them out sign and mail them if you dont have the time or ability, so Im not sure that this one even counts anymore

Show me a group that is willing to talk with and work with 'the other side' and I will be more than happy to become involved. But as I see it, it's all or nothing, and regardless of how you feel about the issue (for, against, in the middle), an 'all-or-nothing' attitude just ain't going to get it.

My involvement at this time is simply how I represent myself as a gun owner. To show others that maybe some of us are open to compromise, or at least, to discussion. To show that not every black male that owns a gun is a 'gang-banger' or 'gangsta' or 'shoots sideways'. To show how a gun, a mechinical device, can be just as complex and as beautiful as a finely made Tissot. To show that my concern is not just centered around the 2nd ammendment, but encompasses many practical issues such as right to defend myself and my family, rising crime, and just personal enjoyment and development of skill when it comes to shooting as a hobby.

So when I find a group that can take a more practical and sensible approach to pushing the 'agenda', I'll be glad to donate time and money.

Lots and lots of threads here, and quite a good bit of chest beating, but I find when it comes down to it, a very, very small number of THR (and other gun) folks are involved in the political process, or in formal gun rights activism in some way.

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False Premise.

Just because people come here to vent and "chest beat" doesn't mean they aren't also involved in the RKBA fight in other ways.

I'm getting tired of that being the typical response to every complaint in these forums (especially right after a contentious election).

So if one is "involved" yet elections and legislation still go against them does their being "involved" somehow magically eliminate any angst or anger at losing?

We (the RKBA movement, not just the GOP) lost BIG in this last election and if I can't come here among my friends in the RKBA movement and bitch about it than what the hell is the point?

Now I can understand if by February there has been ZERO movement by the DNC controlled legislature to attack our gun rights and people are STILL whining, then you'd have a point.

But the wounds are fresh ... so back off and let people get this **** out of their system before you come down on everyone.

Right. What Zundfolge said.

I've gotten annoyed at the number of people, knowing nothing about me, telling that I'm not involved enough ("What keeps you from being involved?").

Could I do more? Of course. Anyone, no matter how much they already do, could do more.

But there's a bit of a "blame the victim" game going on with this mindset, too.

Here we have government out of control. They take half my treasure, and then use it to pay government employees who work against my interests full time.

Out of the remaining half, I must feed and clothe myself and care for those I am responsible for. This means holding down a full time job that eats a few nights and weekends, too.

Which leaves precious little treasure and darned little time to fight those who have nothing but time and far too much of my treasure. What I can give, I do. Look, I can't even afford a lousy milsurp this month or next, and maybe even the month after that.

And you'd like to make me think it's my fault that things aren't going our way?

Forgive me if I continue to be annoyed by the way the question is phrased. It assumes that (1) I'm not already doing what I can, and (2) The way things are going is my fault. This is what I meant when I quipped that the thread title sounds like "when did you stop beating your wife?"

Thomas Jefferson said best what happens to your ability to fight bad government when you are taxed into servitude (underline mine):

If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; And the sixteen being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; But be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers; And this is the tendency of all human governments.

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Barbara, your rant is starting to sound like ones that I've posted.

Sounds like you had people helping you. Keep those people close to you, and let them know how much you respect them and value their committment. If you have some confidential information, share at least a bit of it with them (to the extent you can) so that they know they're actually insiders, not just grunts.

Good volunteers are golden, and very hard to find.

No matter what the issue, or how huge an impact that issue has had on society, the number of people working on the issue have always been a tiny minority.

I voted NRA member. I think thats why most people join is so they can fight for us. Maybe we need a drive to join a gun rights org.

I think many people on this forum are too busy accusing everyone that they disagree with of doing even less work then themselves to have any time left to help out.

I used to put in 60+ hours a month if you count driving to and from meetings and the small stuff like writing letters to reps as work. I never considered myself much of an activist. I just felt that I was doing my part. Having the dregs of society constantly attack me without cause cause was one of the reasons for me to seriously scale back my efforts and abandon the gun cause almost completely.

It is always those at the lower end of the scale who accuse others of being even less than themselves. It is the same with religious faith, patrionism, money, sports cars, and many other things. I have never in my life seen a single exception to that rule.

Maybe THR could if it has not already, put out or find a guide to teach people everything that they need or want to know about activism and politics. Most people do not know what to do. If there where more leaders and people to teach them I think you could get more activism. I never had trouble getting people to help with any specific task, or getting them to show up for rallies. It was figuring out what to do that held us back, on both the individual and group level.

Being specific about what you need volunteers or money for might help. The MN Libertarian party never had any trouble fund rasing for specific projects. If we needed money to host a booth at an event, or to pay for some campaign, and told people what it would cost and how close we where to our goal, then they where happy to pitch in. Getting people to spend money on the causes in general was a bit harder.