$1000 reward to turn in an illegal gunowner

Apparently these are some of the guns they confiscated



A desert eagle?!

What's that little one with the suppressor?

This is about probable cause.

Now the antis have yet another tool to give the police probable cause to search your premises. Because your busybody neighbor told them you have a "machine gun", the cops search your home and find that your 1976 shotgun was reported stolen somewhere in 1982 several owners ago. You bought it from an individual, no reciept, or bought it from a friend who had no way of knowing it was once stolen.
This is great for lawyers.

after reading the article it appears NYPD is trying to do the right thing by getting illegal guns off the streets. i dont think that is a bad thing, especially if i lived in NYC and i couldn't otherwise legally own/possess/carry a gun as a citizen. if i can't have a gun legally (if i didn't have a gun permit) and i chose to be law-abiding to keep myself out of jail i'd expect the police to do something get the guns that are not legally supposed to be in NYC out of there.

those gun laws have been in effect for years in NYC. it is so backwards in NYC that a State of NY concealed carry permit is not valid in NYC, but a NYC concealed carry permit is valid in the entire state of NY. the way i see it, if i had to be a law abiding citizen there i'd want the playing field levelled.

im not arguing the legality of searches, etc., once these "tips" have been given to the PD, because we haven't seen them yet. i dont think we can say one way or the other (yet) if NYPD will act in a reasonable manner to get the "illegal" guns out of NYC.

i think NYC will have to have search warrants signed by judges before they can enter people's homes looking for said illegal guns.

personally i dont think NYC is anywhere near a gun-free zone. i believe most of the guns in NYC are either in the hands of the police or the crooks. exempting LEO's, i think most are in the hands of the crooks there.

im supposed to visit NYC in April.....

The Real Hawkeye said:

Gun possession is a fundamental right. New York City has essentially outlawed the exercise of that fundamental right. How can increasing its efficiency in this endeavor be anything but bad?

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Exactly.

NYC is nothing but a giant open-air prison, and the wardens are just trying to get prisoners to rat each other out.

When did supporters of the Second Amendment decide that it was legitimate to have gun restrictions on ordinary citizens in ANY part of the USA?

after reading the article it appears NYPD is trying to do the right thing by getting illegal guns off the streets.

Click to expand...

Please explain to me the characteristics of an "illegal gun" that make it more a danger to my welfare than a "legal gun." I think we need to address people, not tools. Certain people are more of a threat to my well-being than others. Let the police focus on those people, not inanimate objects, declaring some legal and some illegal, and therefore bad. This is all to divert your attention and to get you occustomed to thinking of certain guns as bad and certain as good. Gradually, the list of good guns will shrink (and eventually disappear), while the list of bad guns lengthens. This is the ultimate aim of programs like this. I am surprised at how many of you folks are fooled by this stuff. That's what I find the most frightening thing about this thread.

The only Illegal guns are the ones that they say are illegal , therefore at some point all guns will be illegal .

It is just that simple .

Too bad you can't get a grand every time you catch a politician breaking the law.

I am confused.
An tip from somebody who will not be named leads to probable cause to get a search warrant. Isn't the court record public info?
what if you pissed off ex wife who knows you smoke a little pot from time to time just calls in a gun tip to get you busted?.
seems to be some questionable legal ground here

reminds me

of the "supergrass program" that the brits used in ireland ui think it was mid 70's. could jail you on uncorroberated testimony. was used by a wide variety of folks to settle all kinds of scores. a real mess and program was scrapped but not before it ruined many a life

The Real Hawkeye wrote:

Please explain to me the characteristics of an "illegal gun" that make it more a danger to my welfare than a "legal gun." I think we need to address people, not tools. Certain people are more of a threat to my well-being than others. Let the police focus on those people, not inanimate objects, declaring some legal and some illegal, and therefore bad. This is all to divert your attention and to get you occustomed to thinking of certain guns as bad and certain as good. Gradually, the list of good guns will shrink (and eventually disappear), while the list of bad guns lengthens. This is the ultimate aim of programs like this. I am surprised at how many of you folks are fooled by this stuff. That's what I find the most frightening thing about this thread.

Click to expand...

the characteristics of the illegal owner of a firearm (aka a person without the proper permits in the NYPD's jurisdiction) is that they don't have the proper permit to have the gun and that in itself is a crime in their jurisdiction.

you're right, there are no characteristics of an "illegal" gun at least in NYC (they are not differentiating between say a Title I vs. Title II firearm). the status of owning a firearm in NYC without a permit makes ownership of the firearm illegal. you can split hairs all you want, but really, ownership of a firearm in NYC without the proper paperwork makes it an "illegal" gun as far as NYC law is concerned. you may not agree with their laws but they do exist and unfortunately the general public in NYC wants these laws in effect.

if you don't like the term "illegal gun" then you call it something else, like "unregistered gun owner." whatever makes it more accurate, fine. bottom line is that i don't have a problem with the NYPD trying to catch and arrest people in their city who don't have the proper paperwork to be possessing/carrying/owning guns.

what i am saying is that if i was a law abiding citizen in NYC, and couldn't carry a gun for self protection because the powers that be say i can't, and i choose to be law abiding, then as far as im concerned the NYPD is doing a good thing by getting unlicensed owners of guns and the guns themselves out of NYC because that makes it a more level playing field.

D.A.R.E. trains kids to be narcs.

Public school trains kids to be narcs.

It's no shock that .gov wants a society where indiviuals are trained to be narcs.

what i am saying is that if i was a law abiding citizen in NYC, and couldn't carry a gun for self protection because the powers that be say i can't, and i choose to be law abiding, then as far as im concerned the NYPD is doing a good thing by getting unlicensed owners of guns and the guns themselves out of NYC because that makes it a more level playing field.

Click to expand...

"If I can't have it, neither can you - and I'll rat you out if you try to break the rules."

Spreadfire - you better hope that the people you encounter in your daily life are more neighborly than this, because I guarantee that you're breaking SOME rule somewhere along the way.

PROPER PAPERWORK??

Crying out loud!

proper paperwork to be possessing/carrying/owning guns

Click to expand...

Holy smokes!

That is, in fact, the entire problem!

The stinking paperwork! There isn't supposed to be any!

It's a flaming RIGHT!

You don't license it. You don't regulate it. It's a damned RIGHT!

Find criminals. Turn in people that you know have committed violent crimes. It should not matter whether said violent crime was committed with an axe, a baseball bat, a brick, or one's bare hands.

Illegal guns??? By definition, guns are legal.

Just in case anyone has missed this little piece of constitutional law, may I point out that the Constitution was written in . . . what, 1787? . . . or thereabouts? And the BILL OF RIGHTS -- ten amendments to that document -- were written later (1789?): specifically to AMEND what the Constitution said.

So, ANYTHING in the constitution (like, say, regulation of interstate commerce), that might control ARMS, was changed/modified/limited/amended LATER by the BoR such that, in this particular instance, the RIGHT to keep and bear ARMS shall not be infringed.

Illegal guns?? No such animal. Shall not be infringed.

Crimes are illegal. The ownership of a gun, per se, cannot be a crime.

Convicting someone of a crime, exacting prescribed punishment of said crime, releasing that criminal back into society, yet prohibiting his full participation in society ("you can never be whole again") is just plain nuts. That's the intentional creating of criminals for the sake of having criminals. Really, truly nuts.

Turn in criminals -- the guys who commit crimes -- not people who own axes and baseball bats and bricks.

I feel much better now.

bottom line is that i don't have a problem with the NYPD trying to catch and arrest people in their city who don't have the proper paperwork to be possessing/carrying/owning guns.

Click to expand...

Alright, looks like somebody needs a 2A refresher course. Can you please show me where in the 2A of the BOR "proper paperwork for owning guns" is discussed? Go ahead look it up, I'll wait.
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Did ya find it yet?
No? ok let me help ya out a bit.
Ya might wanna wright this down, so go get a pen and paper. I'll wait for ya
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Ya back?
ok, here it goes

IT AIN'T IN THERE!!! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ILLEGAL GUN!!!!:banghead:

Josh

Well, yeah, but we're not a police state: after all, they're not hanging people for not having government permission to keep and bear arms, are they?

bottom line is that i don't have a problem with the NYPD trying to catch and arrest people in their city who don't have the proper paperwork to be possessing/carrying/owning guns.

Click to expand...

See, this is scary to me to find someone on a pro gun site, who apparently has an interest in some facit of shooting, who thinks like this. The paperwork to which you refer is only accessible in NYC by the very wealthy and very connected. If you're Donald Trump or Howard Stern, or a Congressman, or someone who has donated substantial sums of money to the Mayor's reelection campaign, you get to possess the paperwork to which you refer. Otherwise, forget it. Is that what you call a level playing field? Laws that seek to make sure that only the privileged classes and hardened criminals possess firearms?

as far as im concerned the NYPD is doing a good thing by getting unlicensed owners of guns and the guns themselves out of NYC because that makes it a more level playing field.

Click to expand...

That's delusional.

It won't work. NYC doesn't have enough man-power to make a dent in the situation. The best defense against criminals is to have as many potential mugging and robbery victims able to defend themselves with modern tools of self defense.

In the meantime, that other side of the equation noted in the paragraph above is being stacked against the good guys. NYC makes it exceedingly difficult to get their permission to own or carry items suitable self-defense. They like it that way. It makes their jobs more secure.

Rick

The article says the will pay $1000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the guilty. Then it says rewards are paid within 72 hours. Seems like some mighty fast convictions.

The stinking paperwork! There isn't supposed to be any!

Click to expand...

Precisely.

Illinois Mentality

In answer to Illini52 thinking this New York "reward" program is a good thing, I can only say it's people like you that allow the sorry state of Illinois to implement & enforce the restrictive gun laws y'all now enjoy. Just don't let your FOID card expire!!!
I live exactly 8 miles from the Illinois state line, & it's a real pain just driving over there.

well let me reply to the glutton of replies that i know i'd get.

rbernie wrote:
"If I can't have it, neither can you - and I'll rat you out if you try to break the rules."

Spreadfire - you better hope that the people you encounter in your daily life are more neighborly than this, because I guarantee that you're breaking SOME rule somewhere along the way.

Click to expand...

i consider myself to be a law abiding citizen. i have enough ATF permits and such that i have to be or else i can get them all revoked. i have no problem with the government checking on me. after all, i am subject to inspection at any time by the ATF. i have nothing to hide. i don't think it is a bad thing to get the citizenry involved that choose to be involved. nobody's forcing people to rat others out. i see nothing wrong with the police offering this program. you may. that is merely a difference of opinion. if you have something to hide then maybe you don't want a program like this. i have nothing to hide and like i said, it's not like ATF needs a search warrant to come and check me out. i dont care if they showed up right now for an inspection.

ArfinGreebly wrote:
The stinking paperwork! There isn't supposed to be any!

It's a flaming RIGHT!

You don't license it. You don't regulate it. It's a damned RIGHT!

[continues on]

Crimes are illegal. The ownership of a gun, per se, cannot be a crime.

Click to expand...

while that may be true in principle, the law is the law. i haven't seen any big push in NYC to repeal their current anti-gun legislation. just because you don't agree with the law doesn't mean you can violate it.

NYC law specifically states that in order to own a gun in their fair city you need some sort of permit. like it or not, it exists. the law exists and is thus enforceable. you may not like it. i may not like it. but i am a law abiding person and thus i choose to abide by it, regardless of what i may think about the law.

captaincaveman wrote:
Alright, looks like somebody needs a 2A refresher course. Can you please show me where in the 2A of the BOR "proper paperwork for owning guns" is discussed? Go ahead look it up, I'll wait.

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of course it's not there. it is listed in some NYC city law. it is a valid law as unfortunate as it may be. you can't always cite the 2nd Amendment as your one and only excuse as to why you can ignore all other firearms laws. i certainly hope you don't ever get arrested for a firearm violation and use this as your one and only defense to prosecution. many have used it and have been subsequently convicted.

The Real Hawkeye wrote:
See, this is scary to me to find someone on a pro gun site, who apparently has an interest in some facit of shooting, who thinks like this. The paperwork to which you refer is only accessible in NYC by the very wealthy and very connected. If you're Donald Trump or Howard Stern, or a Congressman, or someone who has donated substantial sums of money to the Mayor's reelection campaign, you get to possess the paperwork to which you refer. Otherwise, forget it. Is that what you call a level playing field? Laws that seek to make sure that only the privileged classes and hardened criminals possess firearms?

Click to expand...

just because i'm pro gun doesn't mean im for disregarding firearms laws. i have no idea how hard or easy it is to get firearms permits in NYC. i can tell you that if you don't have the legal paperwork, and you are in possession of a firearm, then it is probably a crime in NYC and if you choose to violate their laws then you can deal with their justice system. challenge it all you want. you can spend the night in jail, post bail with your own money, pay for your own attorney, get your gun confiscated, and in the end, you're still wrong.

AZRickD wrote:
It won't work. NYC doesn't have enough man-power to make a dent in the situation. The best defense against criminals is to have as many potential mugging and robbery victims able to defend themselves with modern tools of self defense.

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True, in a perfect world. but you have to remember, that like it or not, if you live in NYC you can either abide by the law or disregard it. if you disregard the law then don't expect the NYPD to treat you any differently than a crook, because, in the eyes of their laws, you are.

for those that don't like NYC law, be glad you don't live in NYC. i don't live there and i'm glad i don't. i don't like their firearms laws, but if i have to abide by them when i go there, then i do.

i, for one, am for the lawful carry of firearms. whatever law may be in place where i happen to be. if i don't like law, that doesn't give me permission to break it.

At one point you're saying it's a good thing (level the playing field), at another you're saying it's bad (as unfortunate as it may be) -- and far too many other juxtapositions to mention.

i consider myself to be a law abiding citizen. i have enough ATF permits and such that i have to be or else i can get them all revoked. i have no problem with the government checking on me.

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You do... but nobody else should have to be subject basic and grotesque infringement of being denied that ability to defend oneself (with proper tools). The Framers would barf at all of the infringements that you take for granted, and apparently wish that on everyone else who happens to live in cities which are run by the progeny of 1920s-era gansters.

No thanks to that, and your arguments.

I'm done here.

Rick

it is a valid law as unfortunate as it may be.

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The BOR says it's not a valid law. But as long as the sheeple don't fuss about it, the NYC govt will keep pretending it is

Josh