A Chinese SKS question and O'Fudds gun store

Matter of curiosity here....

You're calling the shopkeeper and his buddies Fudds why?

I hate that. Good move in leaving, if they're gonna treat customers like crap, take your business elsewhere.

I got similar treatment by some of the local gunshops, when I was shopping around for an AR15. I guess they assumed that because I'm relatively young (24), that I was just window shopping.

They were so wrong... I went to Sportsmans Warehouse, where the folks treated me great, and dropped cash for my Bushmaster and a ton of spare mags and ammo.

It sure is hard to find a gun store where the younger crowd doesn't get treated like that. The store owners should know that they are shooting themselves in the foot by treating ANY customer poorly.

The clerks in that store were doubley stupid. If they piss me off, they lose a customer for maybe 20 years. By intimidating, and pissing off a young person, they lose a customer for maybe 50 years. Not to mention all his freinds he tells about his experience there.
I just don't understand why so many people associated with guns in the capacity of store clerks, or range officers have this "I'm so smart and you're an idiot" attitude. I do think it's more prevelant than in other industries. Maybe there are just too many grumpy old men behind those counters.
Someone said it here once before, and it's all too true. "The customer may not always be right, but the customer is always the customer"
.....that is...until you chase him away.

I would not call them Fudds, I like Elmer. These are bad sales folk and may their atitude come back to haunt them.
There are people like this in all walks of life. Just be nice and move on if you don't cotton to them.
Jusst my thoughts.
Be happy, careful and enjoy life.

The only federal law that I can think of that currently applies to SKS is the 922 compliance stuff where you can't assemble an import gun unless it has 10 or less original parts. This does not apply to C&R SKS's, but does apply as soon as you change something on it.

For example an Albanian SKS is fine in issued state, but if you take off the fixed magazine and replace it with a hi-cap magazine then you have to start stripping other stuff off the rifle to replace...like the stock, gas tube, sights, rear recoil cover and spring, etc etc. Adding parts does not count, so if you simply add a pin on muzzle break it doesn't count towards the 10 items or less.

So the gun dealer was only partially correct. He could have sold it to you just fine, but you would have to change a bunch of other stuff in order for it to not be illegal. Once everything is changed then the SKS becomes a scary looking black rifle.

Either way though don't change out the mags on an SKS. Maybe get a 20 round fixed but don't use any of the detachables, they really are crap. Instead learn how to use strip clips, they end up being faster then the duck billed after market mags.

Did you say, or do, anything while you were in the store to maybe, just maybe, help unite the cultures?

Think about it.

If you want to avoid fudds completely in Austin, check out the Texas Gun Store. There's not a damn huntin' rifle in the whole place. AWs and Class 3 is all they sell. My kind of merchandise...

One advantage to being a 'Fudd' is that when the great gathering of guns that the libs are trying to implement starts, it will probably be in small steps and the 'Fudds' guns will be the last to go.

You can replace the FIXED 10 round magazine with a FIXED 20 or 30 round magazine legally.

A detachable magazine forces 922 compliance. I have a Norinco SKS with a Norinco 20 round fixed magazine that took about 15 seconds to install and has functioned flawlessly for several thousand rounds.

Loading the fixed 20 rounder with two 10 round stripper clips is almost as fast as changing a detachable. And anything you can't stop with 20 rounds of 7.62 you're not going to stop with 30 or 40 rounds either.

As for the arse-wholes in the gun store, forget about them, and do business elsewhere. They're not worth wasting your time thinking about.

I've run into a few of them. First I try to explain the correct info to them. If they "know it all" already, I just smile, tell them to have a nice day and leave.

Oh yeah, I also ask all of my shooting buddies not to do business with them!

From what I am reading on these websites I really must believe that all the stores with decent, knowledgeable staff are being ruthlessly put out of business by the BATFE while the stores full of raging lunatic employees are reaping the rewards, or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

When was the kid's Chinese SKS imported into the country or did anybody bother to ask before they jumped all over the guy?

The only federal law that I can think of that currently applies to SKS is the 922 compliance stuff where you can't assemble an import gun unless it has 10 or less original parts. This does not apply to C&R SKS's, but does apply as soon as you change something on it.

Click to expand...

Close... It's 922 (r) that he was referring to. You cannot assemble an imported semi-auto rifle with 10 or more imported parts (original or not) or it is a federal felony and carries a 10 year and/or $10K fine penalty (or is it a 5yr, $5k? Can't remember). The b!tch of it is that a completely original SKS is fine, but if you slap on a foreign magazine it becomes illegal. You have to keep the foreign parts count at 10 or less, even if they are original once you start modifying the weapon. Also, not just any parts count. There is a list of parts that are counted in the 10 or less game. On an SKS, they include the stock, pistol grip (if applicable), trigger, op rod, gas piston, etc.

SO... In order to slap a new detachable style mag on an SKS, you have to buy a stock, pistol grip, op rod, US made mag, etc.etc. to stay legal.

This was the basis of the gun shop guy's arguement.

Now, why was he an a$$? Who knows... Some people are. Some people don't think that semi-auto military style rifles have a place in civilian hands. If that's his case, he's in the wrong business.

As for all the Fudd stuff, I'm personally getting a little worried. With HR 1022 in the works and a growing division between the traditional hunters (Fudds) and the tactical guys (mall ninjas), I'm afraid we are dividing and losing power.

The Fudds hate the Mall Ninjas, and now the Mall Ninjas hate the Fudds.

This seems like a perfect riff for the liberals who want to take all of your guns to exploit.

Just a suggestion, but maybe we should try to unite and explain why we like AR's, SKS's, AK's, etc. Not only that, but we have to listen to why others may like (and even prefer) a bolt action 30-06. If we unite, we have a pro-any-gun group that could crush at will any attempt at banning our weapons.

Just something to think about.

My dad had a similar experience at a local store years ago. He heard a customer being reamed for wanting to buy a Ruger instead of a Smith. After the customer left, he went to the salesperson, showed him the items he had intended to purchase, the large roll of bills he was going to purchase them with, looked the salesman in the eye and said "If you hadn't been rude, you'd have all this money. Now you don't" then dropped the items on the counter and went out the door.

There's only one major store on Lamar, so I know the one.

I agree that many of their prices are high, and that they have more "traditional" rifles than mil-type. However, I personally haven't had any problems with them.

They sell a few ARs, the FN5.7 (and ammo for it), and they certainly sell plenty of Glocks, CZs, SiGs, Kel-Tecs, etc.

Not saying you didn't see this, just that I haven't seen such extremes from them. A few of the old guys there are a little stiff, but there are always some 20something and 30something guys working there too. I frequently see guys my age in there buying their first handguns, and they seem to get fair treatment.

It's clean, organized, large selection of new and used (not bad used prices, sometimes) and has both male and female staff. I give them some credit for that.

Not the most tacticool store, and prices are high, but certainly not as bad as some dusty/musty/smoky animal-head filled hobbyist shops I've been in.

-MV

With HR 1022 in the works and a growing division between the traditional hunters (Fudds) and the tactical guys (mall ninjas), I'm afraid we are dividing and losing power.

The Fudds hate the Mall Ninjas, and now the Mall Ninjas hate the Fudds.

Click to expand...

Part of the problem with that is there isn't enough people that fall in both categories. I have my "traditional" hunting rifles and shotgun that I use to hunt four legged and winged animals with, and have the tactical weapons that I use to shoot paper bad guy, zombie, and toaster targets with.

I understand both and the uses for both, but unfortunately I know a lot of hunters like Zumbo that scoff at the AR-15, and a lot of Mall Ninjas that look at my .30-06 as a deer rifle and don't see it's application as a long range sniper rifle.

I've ran into that same attitude at a number of local gun stores and at the range. What a great way to welcome the younger generation into our sport! Shooting is not as popular with the younger folks as it once was, yet they are the lifeblood of our freedom. People like that just discourage folks from becoming shooters. We should be welcoming them, not discouraging them.

I also know what gun shop the original poster is referring to. Yes, they are high-priced and a little fuddish and seem to cater to the "only need guns for the four-legged beasts crowd." Whatever, shop elsewhere. That's what I'd do. Younger folks tend to eschew hunting in favor of target shooting... especially we urbanites. So places that seem to think they can take a dump on AW owners are in for a sweet financial shock in the years to come. Also try Tex Guns or Sportsmen's Finest. Tex Guns is seriously one of my favorite stores in all of Austin, on a personal note. I'm a 100% non-hunter, so I'm quite particular about Fuddishness. There's none of it at Tex-Guns. Mil Surplus and AW goodness.

Part of the problem with that is there isn't enough people that fall in both categories. I have my "traditional" hunting rifles and shotgun that I use to hunt four legged and winged animals with, and have the tactical weapons that I use to shoot paper bad guy, zombie, and toaster targets with.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I too fall into both categories. I have several bolt guns for 4 leggers and a couple of camo shotguns for the wingers (and clay). They rest in the safe next to my SKS, AR's, and Tactical 870P shotgun.

My suggestion is that we try to educate both sides to understanding the view point of the other side. If you don't want to buy/sell AR's, fine. But don't come down on those who like them. On the other hand, if you only shoot zombies and paper BG's, cut the hunter's a little slack.

Educate each other before we lose all our guns.

In the words of Rodney King " Can't we all just get along?"

[Regret] Damn. I almost vomited when I said that... [/Regret]

But seriously, if both groups work together to forward pro-gun legislation instead of fighting each other then EVERYONE (Fudds and Ninjas) will be better off.

yes, any austinite is going to know who you mean by "o'fudds".

i go there occasionally 'cause they're close to my work. they are a bit fuddish, for sure. i've had good experience and one bad. i do think it's harder being younger. being youngish myself, i can almost feel them lowering their respect levels when they turn from an older customer to me. i like what rickomatic says above. i plan to be buying guns for many years. so a smart salesperson really ought to recognize the potential future dollars we young people represent when we walk into their store.

i bought my first handgun at o'fudds, used and at a good price. but thanks, prince yamato, for the other suggestions.

I find your use of the word "fudd" insulting.

I know the place. Bought many a gun there. As long as you tune out the BS factor, you're fine. I have seen some dreadful attitude and misinformation directed at newbies, however. I pretty much go now just to browse the used gun selection, there can be some good deals now and then. For new? Sorry, but the Sportsmen's Warehouse, Academy, and every other place in town will be $100 cheaper, not to mention the once a month gunshow.

Nice place to look, but when I tire of the attitude sometimes I stay away for a year or two.

"I find your use of the word "fudd" insulting."

What did you think the point of using it was?
Some people deserve to be insulted and belittled, and those are the ones that bring it upon themselves.

The way I see it, the problem was less that the salesperson was a died-in-the-wool gun bigot, and more that he was not only a grade-A a*****e, but a moron to boot.
He passed on the opportunity to upsell a young man into SKS compliance parts to go with his hi-cap magazine, preferring to run his mouth, scream at and berate a potential customer for absolutely no good reason.

That's inexcusable.

As for being bothered by 'fudd' as an adjective, and the 'dividing the camps' argument, save your breath.
Fudds, by defininition, don't care about firearm rights; they 'sport' with guns, and believe that people who own firearms for non-sporting purposes are strange, if not dangerous.
They don't care about us, they think we're 'scary' or 'crazy' or 'stupid'. They don't care about gun rights, if it comes down to it they'll take up golf; but they aren't worried. After all, the anti-gun lobby isn't after 'sporting' arms.
If non-sporting arms are banned, so much the better- they don't have to deal with the likes of us any more, at the range, at the 'gun shoppe', in the field, wherever.

It's all about snobbery, and you won't extract that from a fudd any more than you can convince a yacht-club snot that a modern bass boat would be awesome for a runabout.

You're right, by Definition.....

koobuh,
I like your definition......I think it's spot on. But, I think that folk's here on THR[ and I'm sure others] are starting to use it a bit too freely. I'm from SC, but I used to live in Dallas, and covered all of TX for my sales territory. I pretty sure that I know the store in question. While it certainly sounds like the sales guys there were definitely being a$$hoooles, I'll dollars to dounouts that they are all strong supporters of the 2A, and actively sell plenty of firearms intended for self defense. As MatthewVanitas pointed out, the have a large selection of Glocks, CZs, SiGs, Kel-Tecs, etc. Not what your Sporting use only, traditional hunter wants, buys, or thinks he needs.

GEM, I'm certainly not defending these yahoo's, but I think we need to reserve the term FUDD for those worst case enemies of our cause, those that think that only their traditional hunting arms are "good guns" and it would be ok to limit/ban modern semi-auto "tactical looking" handguns/rifles/shotguns.

I know that I certainly enjoy fine shotguns and rifles.....I wear Filson and Barbour clothing.......I travel around the country[ and occasionally out side the country ] hunting uplandgame, waterfowl, and deer. I also am a hardcore competitor, with o/u shotguns and finely fitted walnut stocks. But, all of my "Sporting guns" that I enjoy and love so much, live in my gunsafe beside my FAL and AR's. My custom 1911's are on the self above

I make my living teaching people the "Sporting Use" of smoothbore shotguns[because that is what I'm good at], but I'm signed up for Ken Hackathorn's Advanced Tactical Defensive Handgun Class this June.

There are more people than you think that love firearms for more than one use, and will defend the 2A, for everyone's use, with all they have.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive to the term FUDD, but I think we need to be sure we use it appropriately or risk doing the anti's work for them, and dividing ourselves further. Put another way, wrong is wrong, and labeling someone just because he likes blued steel and walnut, is just as bad as the labels we get for being "into" blackrifles/shotguns/handguns.