mosin v. mauser
- Thread starter cwdotson
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silverlance
Member
I have to agree with geojap.
90% of mosins are crude minute of hairy fat man boomsticks compared to 90% of mausers. Any mauser, even the turk ones, are finer and more accurate than your run of the mill wartime mosin - which is what 90% of mosins are (I forget the numbers of mosins built during the wartimes, but they are way in the millions)
HOWEVER
that last 10% of mosins, into which fall many of the early russians, all of the Finn captures, and (believe it or not, as I found out today http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265606) Chinese T-53 mosins - far exceed what 90% of those mausers can do in accuracy, fit, forethought, and beauty (think of tiger striped artic birch stocks).
90% of mosins are crude minute of hairy fat man boomsticks compared to 90% of mausers. Any mauser, even the turk ones, are finer and more accurate than your run of the mill wartime mosin - which is what 90% of mosins are (I forget the numbers of mosins built during the wartimes, but they are way in the millions)
HOWEVER
that last 10% of mosins, into which fall many of the early russians, all of the Finn captures, and (believe it or not, as I found out today http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=265606) Chinese T-53 mosins - far exceed what 90% of those mausers can do in accuracy, fit, forethought, and beauty (think of tiger striped artic birch stocks).
Cosmoline
Member
I see monkeys making Albanian 54R. I mean all the time. Over in the corner of the room.
SHHH cosmoline, you wernt supposed to tell them about the Cosmolinistan surplus Ammo until we had packaged it!!
its seriously sad, but i do think about Mosins (and guns in general ) during my day. several times.
krochus - hilarious
its seriously sad, but i do think about Mosins (and guns in general ) during my day. several times.
krochus - hilarious
w?
I don't know if I offended anybody by asking what I asked, but it sure seems like it. I feel I had a legitimate inquiry and thought maybe we could talk about firearms on a firearms forum...I did err in typing my thread line as "m v. m," acknowledging that in general it had been tossed about but hI ave not seen any specificically looking beyond and really detailing why the Mosin is so oftne mentioned as "unbreakable, even by peasants" and such while the Mauser, when discussed in the same breath, isn't. Didn't mean to waste anyone's time, but...
(1) Got some good technical data in one post, although I would like a little more about the extractor vulnerability with the Mosin--I really did read that somewhere!
(2) One post nailed what I really think, that there is not much differnece if any in "tuffness" between the two, it is just easier to think about abusing a Mosin for its being less polished and sophisticate than a Mauser 98, at least the good ones.
Frankly, even the Finns I've looked at seem junky. Right now, the only big advantage would seem to be the cheap ammo.
I don't know if I offended anybody by asking what I asked, but it sure seems like it. I feel I had a legitimate inquiry and thought maybe we could talk about firearms on a firearms forum...I did err in typing my thread line as "m v. m," acknowledging that in general it had been tossed about but hI ave not seen any specificically looking beyond and really detailing why the Mosin is so oftne mentioned as "unbreakable, even by peasants" and such while the Mauser, when discussed in the same breath, isn't. Didn't mean to waste anyone's time, but...
(1) Got some good technical data in one post, although I would like a little more about the extractor vulnerability with the Mosin--I really did read that somewhere!
(2) One post nailed what I really think, that there is not much differnece if any in "tuffness" between the two, it is just easier to think about abusing a Mosin for its being less polished and sophisticate than a Mauser 98, at least the good ones.
Frankly, even the Finns I've looked at seem junky. Right now, the only big advantage would seem to be the cheap ammo.
You've probably seen the worn out ones, which is common in mil-surps. But get a few years of collecting under your belt before saying something like that and report back then. You will have had thousands of Finn-fanatics up in arms with a statement like that.
Just playing, but it's not too far from the truth. The variances within the group of "Mausers" or within the group of "Mosins" can be so large that trying to describe them as a group by making a broad statement about "Mausers" will not get you very far, as the nuances between the different types of Mauser and Mosins are very great. They need to be discussed in terms of "Mexican Mausers" and "small ring German Mausers" or "Remington M1891 Mosins" versus "91/59 Mosins", which are all very different from one another. "Mausers" is such a broad term, so broad that you can't really have a discussion like this about Mauser specifics (and vice versa for Mosins) unless you narrow down the field somewhat to individual Mauser models, as there is just too much to talk about in one thread. That may be why most posts are a little vague here. Cosmoline pretty much answered your questions with the best answers that you will get anywhere.
Don't rely on books only. You need to experience first hand all of these models of which you speak. Take the rifles apart, reassemble them and then go shoot them to see how they behave. You will discover the little defining characteristics of a K-98k German Mauser versus a Yugo M-48a Mauser. They are quite different, trust me. Just as a M91/30 Mosin is very different than a M39 Mosin. All these folks here are replying from years of experience shooting these rifles.
You didn't offend anyone, don't sweat it. We come here to help others in their pursuits in this hobby. Don't be bashful, post whatever you need to so that you can learn what you need to. Happy shooting.
Eleven Mike
Member
Has nothing to do with the thread topic, but the bolt-hold-open is found on some Mausers, but not on others.
cracked butt
Member
Its found on just about all of them except turks and yugos.
The bolt hold open feature also is found on the 1903. It's a bit wierd at first but hardly a design flaw.
(This is the part where I say elves are fascists? And does that mean that orc society is collectivist? In a reversal of Tolkein, the orcs WON.)
Back on topic...
I've heard many people complain that the Moisin action is slower... I don't know if they are talking about the older 91/30 or the M44. I'm sure practice can resolve this as I got pretty fast with a 1903 and 98K. The Moisins I've handled certainly seemed slower to ME, but there are a lot of factors that could contribute to that.
On 'wartime' MFG... late war Mausers are a mixed bag... one member here even discovered he may have a rifle made with concentration camp labor. Crude laminated stocks, gate latch triggers etc. are the norm.
(This is the part where I say elves are fascists? And does that mean that orc society is collectivist? In a reversal of Tolkein, the orcs WON.)
Back on topic...
I've heard many people complain that the Moisin action is slower... I don't know if they are talking about the older 91/30 or the M44. I'm sure practice can resolve this as I got pretty fast with a 1903 and 98K. The Moisins I've handled certainly seemed slower to ME, but there are a lot of factors that could contribute to that.
On 'wartime' MFG... late war Mausers are a mixed bag... one member here even discovered he may have a rifle made with concentration camp labor. Crude laminated stocks, gate latch triggers etc. are the norm.
Cosmoline
Member
Exactly. It has a very practical purpose, since when a soldier is in the thick of it he may not be counting or paying attention to how many rounds are left. It's a quick way of avoiding that horrible "CLICK."
The Deer Hunter
Member
Havent even held a Mauser, but I know for sure the MN is simpler. Besides the bolt, its got like what 7 moving pieces?
Eleven Mike
Member
Who said it was a design flaw? If anything, the lack of bolt-hold-open could be considered a design flaw.
The Deer Hunter
Member
7.62x54R is real cheap.
Like real cheap.
Cheaper than my .22WMR.
Like real cheap.
Cheaper than my .22WMR.
skypirate7
Member
Alright, I'm going to jump into this with my personal opinions and experience. My milsurp bolt-actions consist of two Mosin Nagants (a 1939 Russian laminated 91/30 and a regular 1948 Russian M44), a Yugoslavian M48A Mauser, and an Indian Enfield 2A. I know you want to focus on Mauser versus Mosin, but I'm going to add my thoughts on the Enfield too since it's another major bolt action design of the era. In fact, it would probably be fair to say that the Mauser, Mosin, and Enfield are the "big 3."
Bolt:
Mauser-- The Mauser bolt is very strong and you can feel it when you work the action. Operation is fairly smooth too. The extractor is without a doubt one of the strongest extractor designs in history. I've heard that German's had trouble with their Mausers' bolts locking up in the extreme cold in the Russian winters, which is likely due to a combination of lubrication and the Mauser's tight action. Bolt disassembly is simple and straight forward.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant bolt feels somewhat "clunky" but it can be operated at the same speed as the Mauser bolt (some people argue it is actually faster to work than the Mauser bolt, but if there's a difference, it is very small). The extractor seems to be a weak point in the Mosin's design. It is a small, one-piece claw. I wouldn't be surprised if its spring tension wears out over time. I've also heard of a few people who broke their extractors. Bolt disassembly is a bit more complex than the Mauser and takes more time (particularly the firing pin disassembly).
Enfield-- The Enfield bolt is even smoother than the Mauser bolt. Opening the bolt is very easy because unlike the Mosin Nagant and Mauser, the Enfield cocks on closing. Bolt operation is very quick, and for this reason the Enfield has a reputation of the highest rate of fire of any bolt action rifle. There are videos on youtube of guys getting off more than 30 rounds per minute of aimed fire. The Enfield's bolt doesn't have a forward lug so it *seems* weaker (in terms of handling excessive pressures) than the Mauser and Mosin bolt. The extractor appears stronger than the Mosin Nagant but not as strong as the Mauser. Unlike Mausers and Mosin Nagants, disassembling the Enfield's firing pin from the bolt requires a special tool.
Magazine and Feeding:
Mauser-- The Mauser has a double-stack magazine which holds 5 rounds. It can be unloaded from the bottom but it is somewhat cumbersome since you have to insert the tip of a round to press the spring-button. The rounds will spill out. The Mauser has a controlled-feed. Rounds must be fed from the magazine so they slip under the extractor of the bolt. You cannot simply dump a loose round into the chamber and close the bolt. The magazine can be loaded quickly with stripper clips.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant has a single-stack magazine which holds 5 rounds. It can be unloaded pretty easily from the bottom by pressing a tab. The rounds will spill out. The Mosin Nagant has an interupter mechanism which prevents rim-lock (a type of jam when the rim of one round catches on the rim of another round). This isn't a factor for the Mauser since it shoots 8mm (which is rimless), though it is a factor for Enfields in .303 British. The cool thing about the Mosin Nagant is that you can dump a loose round directly into the chamber and close the bolt. The magazine can be loaded quickly with stripper clips.
Enfield-- My 2A has a double stack magazine which holds 12 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO. Enfields in .303 British only have a magazine capacity of 10 rounds. Aside from the capacity, another advantage the Enfield 2A has over traditional Enfields in .303 British is that you don't have to worry about rimlock (7.62x51 NATO is rimless). Enfield magazines are detachable which is good since your rounds won't spill out if you do have to unload from the bottom for some reason. Technically, you can reload the Enfield with spare magazines but this wasn't the practice in WW1 and WW2. Enfields are meant to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. Like the Mauser, the Enfield has a controlled-feed which means rounds must be fed from the magazine.
Ejection:
Mauser-- Mausers have a strong ejection system. I've never heard of anyone who had problems with a Mauser's ejection.
Mosin Nagant-- Some people have problems with weak ejection since the ejector/interuptor assembly has a spring. If the spring is weak, bent, or worn out, ejections could be weak.
Enfield-- Some people have problems with weak ejection. The Enfield depends on an ejector screw in the receiver. If the ejector screw doesn't protrude far enough, the back of the spent round won't hit it and it won't eject. If the screw protrudes too far, then it will interfere with the bolt's operation.
Safety:
Mauser-- Mausers have a simple but effective safety at the rear of the bolt on the bolt shroud. A cool feature is that when the safety is in the middle "safe" position, it blocks the shooter's view of the iron sights (alerting him that the safety is still on).
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant safety is so difficult and cumbersome to use that most people pretend that there is no safety. "Safety? What safety?" Russian troops didn't bother to use it, nor do most shooters today.
Enfield-- The Enfield's safety is on the left side of the receiver and can be quickly engaged with the shooting thumb (right-handed shooters).
Ergonomics:
Mauser-- The Mauser has by far the best balance of the three designs. It is sleek and has a smooth bottom since the magazine is fully inside the rifle. This enables you to comfortably put your second hand anywhere along the length of the stock. The iron sights (rear v and forward inverted v) are somewhat hard to see.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant has a slim, sleek design. However, the magazine protrudes out the bottom of the rifle. The safety is an ergonomic disaster. The iron sights are simple and easy to use (rear notch and forward post). The carbines (such as M38 and M44) are short and handy, but the full length rifles (such as 91/30) are very long... at least they can be used as an oar if necessary.
Enfield-- The Enfield looks and feels like a battle rifle (read: heavy). The magazine protrudes out the bottom and the wooden stock is thick. The safety is well positioned though. Most importantly, the placement of the bolt so far back enables the shooter to grip the bolt with his thumb and forefinger and shoot with his middle finger on the trigger if he wants to fire as rapidly as possible. My Enfield 2A's iron sights are simple and easy to use (rear notch and forward post). The Enfield doesn't have a sight hood for the front sight post like the Mauser and Mosin Nagant. Instead, it has large ears offering protection for both the front sight post and rear sight ladder. This basically means that you have increased visibility when looking at the front sight. I should add that some Enfields have a rear peep sight.
Disassembly:
Mauser-- Mauser disassembly is pretty simple. A few screws and locking screws (redundant but useful insurance). Cleaning the receiver bridge is a bit of a challenge.
Mosin Nagant-- Disassembly is ridiculously simple. Do you even need directions? Cleaning is a breeze.
Enfield-- SO. MANY. SCREWS.
Accuracy:
This varies on so many factors (rifle condition, rifle make/model, ammo, shooter, etc).
Ammo:
Mauser-- Recoil is managable. 8mm surplus is widely available and cheap but its days are numbered and some people expect it to dry up soon.
Mosin Nagant-- Recoil from the carbines (such as M38 and M44) is strong and the muzzle flash is a sight to behold. Recoil from full-length Mosins (such as 91/30) is more managable. The great news is that 7.62x54R is widely available and dirt cheap. The only round I can think of that's cheaper is .22LR. 7.62x54R is the oldest military round still in production and it'll probably be around for quite a while longer since it is still in service in Eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa.
Enfield-- Well my Enfield 2A shoots 7.62x51 NATO instead of .303 British (which is good since .303 British is drying up and becoming pricey). The recoil of 7.62x51 NATO is easier on the shoulder compared to 8mm Mauser and 7.62x54R. Despite the fact that 7.62x51 NATO is the standard machine gun, sniper round, and battle rifle round for Western forces, surplus 7.62x51 NATO isn't that widely available right now and is expensive (compared to 7.62x54R). Hopefully it's just a dry spell. The round is in production in many countries so I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before more surplus ammo comes in.
Conclusion:
With that all said, I'm not going to say one rifle is particularly "better" than the other. They are all interesting designs which have their strengths and weaknesses.
The Mauser has the strongest action overall and it's very sleek and well-balanced. It would make a great hunting rifle.
The Mosin Nagant is very affordable (both the rifles and the ammo) and is a simple but highly effective design. It is a "people's rifle" which would be well suited for almost any task.
The Enfield is quick-working and has a high capacity. Among bolt-actions, it is the best battle rifle.
Bolt:
Mauser-- The Mauser bolt is very strong and you can feel it when you work the action. Operation is fairly smooth too. The extractor is without a doubt one of the strongest extractor designs in history. I've heard that German's had trouble with their Mausers' bolts locking up in the extreme cold in the Russian winters, which is likely due to a combination of lubrication and the Mauser's tight action. Bolt disassembly is simple and straight forward.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant bolt feels somewhat "clunky" but it can be operated at the same speed as the Mauser bolt (some people argue it is actually faster to work than the Mauser bolt, but if there's a difference, it is very small). The extractor seems to be a weak point in the Mosin's design. It is a small, one-piece claw. I wouldn't be surprised if its spring tension wears out over time. I've also heard of a few people who broke their extractors. Bolt disassembly is a bit more complex than the Mauser and takes more time (particularly the firing pin disassembly).
Enfield-- The Enfield bolt is even smoother than the Mauser bolt. Opening the bolt is very easy because unlike the Mosin Nagant and Mauser, the Enfield cocks on closing. Bolt operation is very quick, and for this reason the Enfield has a reputation of the highest rate of fire of any bolt action rifle. There are videos on youtube of guys getting off more than 30 rounds per minute of aimed fire. The Enfield's bolt doesn't have a forward lug so it *seems* weaker (in terms of handling excessive pressures) than the Mauser and Mosin bolt. The extractor appears stronger than the Mosin Nagant but not as strong as the Mauser. Unlike Mausers and Mosin Nagants, disassembling the Enfield's firing pin from the bolt requires a special tool.
Magazine and Feeding:
Mauser-- The Mauser has a double-stack magazine which holds 5 rounds. It can be unloaded from the bottom but it is somewhat cumbersome since you have to insert the tip of a round to press the spring-button. The rounds will spill out. The Mauser has a controlled-feed. Rounds must be fed from the magazine so they slip under the extractor of the bolt. You cannot simply dump a loose round into the chamber and close the bolt. The magazine can be loaded quickly with stripper clips.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant has a single-stack magazine which holds 5 rounds. It can be unloaded pretty easily from the bottom by pressing a tab. The rounds will spill out. The Mosin Nagant has an interupter mechanism which prevents rim-lock (a type of jam when the rim of one round catches on the rim of another round). This isn't a factor for the Mauser since it shoots 8mm (which is rimless), though it is a factor for Enfields in .303 British. The cool thing about the Mosin Nagant is that you can dump a loose round directly into the chamber and close the bolt. The magazine can be loaded quickly with stripper clips.
Enfield-- My 2A has a double stack magazine which holds 12 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO. Enfields in .303 British only have a magazine capacity of 10 rounds. Aside from the capacity, another advantage the Enfield 2A has over traditional Enfields in .303 British is that you don't have to worry about rimlock (7.62x51 NATO is rimless). Enfield magazines are detachable which is good since your rounds won't spill out if you do have to unload from the bottom for some reason. Technically, you can reload the Enfield with spare magazines but this wasn't the practice in WW1 and WW2. Enfields are meant to be loaded from the top with stripper clips. Like the Mauser, the Enfield has a controlled-feed which means rounds must be fed from the magazine.
Ejection:
Mauser-- Mausers have a strong ejection system. I've never heard of anyone who had problems with a Mauser's ejection.
Mosin Nagant-- Some people have problems with weak ejection since the ejector/interuptor assembly has a spring. If the spring is weak, bent, or worn out, ejections could be weak.
Enfield-- Some people have problems with weak ejection. The Enfield depends on an ejector screw in the receiver. If the ejector screw doesn't protrude far enough, the back of the spent round won't hit it and it won't eject. If the screw protrudes too far, then it will interfere with the bolt's operation.
Safety:
Mauser-- Mausers have a simple but effective safety at the rear of the bolt on the bolt shroud. A cool feature is that when the safety is in the middle "safe" position, it blocks the shooter's view of the iron sights (alerting him that the safety is still on).
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant safety is so difficult and cumbersome to use that most people pretend that there is no safety. "Safety? What safety?" Russian troops didn't bother to use it, nor do most shooters today.
Enfield-- The Enfield's safety is on the left side of the receiver and can be quickly engaged with the shooting thumb (right-handed shooters).
Ergonomics:
Mauser-- The Mauser has by far the best balance of the three designs. It is sleek and has a smooth bottom since the magazine is fully inside the rifle. This enables you to comfortably put your second hand anywhere along the length of the stock. The iron sights (rear v and forward inverted v) are somewhat hard to see.
Mosin Nagant-- The Mosin Nagant has a slim, sleek design. However, the magazine protrudes out the bottom of the rifle. The safety is an ergonomic disaster. The iron sights are simple and easy to use (rear notch and forward post). The carbines (such as M38 and M44) are short and handy, but the full length rifles (such as 91/30) are very long... at least they can be used as an oar if necessary.
Enfield-- The Enfield looks and feels like a battle rifle (read: heavy). The magazine protrudes out the bottom and the wooden stock is thick. The safety is well positioned though. Most importantly, the placement of the bolt so far back enables the shooter to grip the bolt with his thumb and forefinger and shoot with his middle finger on the trigger if he wants to fire as rapidly as possible. My Enfield 2A's iron sights are simple and easy to use (rear notch and forward post). The Enfield doesn't have a sight hood for the front sight post like the Mauser and Mosin Nagant. Instead, it has large ears offering protection for both the front sight post and rear sight ladder. This basically means that you have increased visibility when looking at the front sight. I should add that some Enfields have a rear peep sight.
Disassembly:
Mauser-- Mauser disassembly is pretty simple. A few screws and locking screws (redundant but useful insurance). Cleaning the receiver bridge is a bit of a challenge.
Mosin Nagant-- Disassembly is ridiculously simple. Do you even need directions? Cleaning is a breeze.
Enfield-- SO. MANY. SCREWS.
Accuracy:
This varies on so many factors (rifle condition, rifle make/model, ammo, shooter, etc).
Ammo:
Mauser-- Recoil is managable. 8mm surplus is widely available and cheap but its days are numbered and some people expect it to dry up soon.
Mosin Nagant-- Recoil from the carbines (such as M38 and M44) is strong and the muzzle flash is a sight to behold. Recoil from full-length Mosins (such as 91/30) is more managable. The great news is that 7.62x54R is widely available and dirt cheap. The only round I can think of that's cheaper is .22LR. 7.62x54R is the oldest military round still in production and it'll probably be around for quite a while longer since it is still in service in Eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa.
Enfield-- Well my Enfield 2A shoots 7.62x51 NATO instead of .303 British (which is good since .303 British is drying up and becoming pricey). The recoil of 7.62x51 NATO is easier on the shoulder compared to 8mm Mauser and 7.62x54R. Despite the fact that 7.62x51 NATO is the standard machine gun, sniper round, and battle rifle round for Western forces, surplus 7.62x51 NATO isn't that widely available right now and is expensive (compared to 7.62x54R). Hopefully it's just a dry spell. The round is in production in many countries so I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before more surplus ammo comes in.
Conclusion:
With that all said, I'm not going to say one rifle is particularly "better" than the other. They are all interesting designs which have their strengths and weaknesses.
The Mauser has the strongest action overall and it's very sleek and well-balanced. It would make a great hunting rifle.
The Mosin Nagant is very affordable (both the rifles and the ammo) and is a simple but highly effective design. It is a "people's rifle" which would be well suited for almost any task.
The Enfield is quick-working and has a high capacity. Among bolt-actions, it is the best battle rifle.
silverlance
Member
like a chicken that walks about with no head, the mosin nagant can continue to load and fire without a magazine.
Eleven Mike
Member
OK, but who has a problem with losing the fixed magazines on their Mausers?
again. alot of assumptions about the Mosins extractor.
youv heard of a few people? is this like, a friend of a friend SWEARS his extractor broke?
so the fact that the extractor SEEMS weak on the mosin, is a negative.
but that the enfields actions SEEMS weak, is dismissable?
theres rifles cant be compared. they all had differant rolls. the closest we can do is compare them to the roll they were meant to fill.
and the mosin fufills its roll valiantly. a cheap, easy to produce rifle to arm millions of people. no more. no less.
the mauser work well for the begining of the war. but by the end shortages, poor labor, and a change in doctrine make the mauser sub par
youv heard of a few people? is this like, a friend of a friend SWEARS his extractor broke?
so the fact that the extractor SEEMS weak on the mosin, is a negative.
but that the enfields actions SEEMS weak, is dismissable?
theres rifles cant be compared. they all had differant rolls. the closest we can do is compare them to the roll they were meant to fill.
and the mosin fufills its roll valiantly. a cheap, easy to produce rifle to arm millions of people. no more. no less.
the mauser work well for the begining of the war. but by the end shortages, poor labor, and a change in doctrine make the mauser sub par
Cosmoline
Member
I'm not sure where you're getting your information. I've owned and shot many dozens of Mausers and Mosins of all types. I've never seen a busted claw on a Mosin. If the ejector gets weak after half a century or so, you can replace it in about five minutes or just bend it some more. My problems have been with weak magazine springs, not with the ejector/interruptor. As far as disassembly, it may take longer for *YOU*, but that doesn't mean it's a design flaw. I suspect you're not doing it properly. You need to press the pin into a soft block and ram down on the bold handle, then when the mainspring tension is off the top you spin it around and a few seconds later it's free. Nothing to it.
I've been using mine for many years. It's quick and easy, you just need to learn how. Do a search function on this issue, as it comes up frequently.
Eleven Mike
Member
It's spelled "role."
skypirate7
Member
Go to the forums of www.russian-mosin-nagant.com
They are dedicated to-- you guessed it-- Mosin Nagants. Do a search and you'll find pictures too. I had extraction problems (not to be confused with "sticky bolt syndrome") and ended up buying a replacement bolt head. This isn't a myth. It happens.
Someone SEEMS to be really defensive today. Chill out. I was simply going over my thoughts of each rifle design so quit the fanboy frenzy. I'm not taking score. I'm just doing an overview for those who are interested in buying a milsurp and want to know what to expect from the three designs. If I thought the Mosin Nagant was a poor design, why would I own two of them?
True enough.
I have personally seen a Mosin with a weak magazine spring which didn't feed rounds high enough for the bolt to feed them. But I didn't think it was common. I imagine it would be a quick fix as well.
I've disassembled my Mosins on numerous occasions and I use the method you describe. Disassembling the bolt head is a piece of cake. Disassembling the firing pin isn't difficult per se but it DOES take more time than disassembling the Mauser's firing pin. With the Mauser, you press down and there's one half turn and that's it. It's very simple.
With the Mosin Nagant, you have to twist it multiple times... and during reassembly, you have to make sure you twist it in the right amount so that back of the firing pin is flat with the back of the cocking piece.
I certainly didn't say that the Mosin Nagant's bolt sucks because of a slightly more time consuming bolt assembly/disassembly process. I'm just stating the facts.
Look, I love Mosin Nagants too and they are great rifles but I'm also truthful about their design.
I don't know if I have any further points to add, but will second much of what skypirate has written.
Mauser -
- Beautifully machined and gorgeous. Terrific fit and finish, looks great.
- The bolt and reciever assembly seem very strong
- Has never failed to function.
- However, the sights are not very good, at least for me. The design of them leaves a lot to be desired.
Mosing 91-30
- Not gorgeous. They look like they were built out of wood from an old barn, then dipped in shellac.
- The action is stout as hell
- The trigger mechanism a marvel of simplicity.
- The sites on are very effective.
- They are like an ugly duckling, and I can't help but love my 91-30s.
M-44
- Same as above, but with a very impressive hinged spike. I wouldn't want to be on the business end of one. Probably the most ominous looking of the lot. - When shot in low light, the 5 feet of flame and noise scare livestock and small children. Amusing as heck. I really like my M-44.
- Same sites as the 91-30.
Finn
- Not ugly
- Extremely accurate. The Finns kept all the good points of the Mosins and made many improvements to the rifle.
- This is a fantastic rifle.
Enfield 2A1
- Neat rifle, and if you ran out of ammo, it would make the best club.
- Fantasticly smooth action, really fast bolt.
- Dissassembly is complex, and requires a lot of tools.
- Bolt and Reciever looks like it was designed by Rube Goldberg
- Mine occasionally does not feed correctly
I shoot the Mauser less than all of these rifles, mostly because of its sites.
Bob
Mauser -
- Beautifully machined and gorgeous. Terrific fit and finish, looks great.
- The bolt and reciever assembly seem very strong
- Has never failed to function.
- However, the sights are not very good, at least for me. The design of them leaves a lot to be desired.
Mosing 91-30
- Not gorgeous. They look like they were built out of wood from an old barn, then dipped in shellac.
- The action is stout as hell
- The trigger mechanism a marvel of simplicity.
- The sites on are very effective.
- They are like an ugly duckling, and I can't help but love my 91-30s.
M-44
- Same as above, but with a very impressive hinged spike. I wouldn't want to be on the business end of one. Probably the most ominous looking of the lot. - When shot in low light, the 5 feet of flame and noise scare livestock and small children. Amusing as heck. I really like my M-44.
- Same sites as the 91-30.
Finn
- Not ugly
- Extremely accurate. The Finns kept all the good points of the Mosins and made many improvements to the rifle.
- This is a fantastic rifle.
Enfield 2A1
- Neat rifle, and if you ran out of ammo, it would make the best club.
- Fantasticly smooth action, really fast bolt.
- Dissassembly is complex, and requires a lot of tools.
- Bolt and Reciever looks like it was designed by Rube Goldberg
- Mine occasionally does not feed correctly
I shoot the Mauser less than all of these rifles, mostly because of its sites.
Bob
- Status
