Felony?

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Cane the S.O.B's

Did not some kid get caned in Singapore in the early nineties for vandalism (Tagging a bunch of cars)
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Give em 30 lashes and have their parents pay for the damage :evil: .

A felony is not right. Back in my day borrowing a car with out permission was called joy riding, now it is felony theft. Hell I got at least 30 lashes for that, and that was before I even got home, then it started again. Never once did I attempt to do something that stupid.

I call it the Pussification of America. No body is held accountible for their actions, and it is allways some one elses fault...:banghead:
 
okay let's look at the Texas Penal Code to see why it's a felony:

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/28.03.00.html

§ 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an

offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:

(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys

the tangible property of the owner;

(2) he intentionally or knowingly tampers with the

tangible property of the owner and causes pecuniary loss or

substantial inconvenience to the owner or a third person; or

(3) he intentionally or knowingly makes markings,

including inscriptions, slogans, drawings, or paintings, on the

tangible property of the owner.

(b) Except as provided by Subsections (f) and (h), an

offense under this section is:

(1) a Class C misdemeanor if:

(A) the amount of pecuniary loss is less than

$50; or

(B) except as provided in Subdivision (3)(A) or

(3)(B), it causes substantial inconvenience to others;

(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the amount of pecuniary

loss is $50 or more but less than $500;

(3) a Class A misdemeanor if:

(A) the amount of pecuniary loss is:

(i) $500 or more but less than $1,500; or

(ii) less than $1,500 and the actor causes

in whole or in part impairment or interruption of public

communications, public transportation, public gas or power supply,

or other public service, or causes to be diverted in whole, in part,

or in any manner, including installation or removal of any device

for any such purpose, any public communications or public gas or

power supply; or

(B) the actor causes in whole or in part

impairment or interruption of any public water supply, or causes to

be diverted in whole, in part, or in any manner, including

installation or removal of any device for any such purpose, any

public water supply, regardless of the amount of the pecuniary

loss;

(4) a state jail felony if the amount of pecuniary loss

is:

(A) $1,500 or more but less than $20,000;

(B) less than $1,500, if the property damaged or

destroyed is a habitation and if the damage or destruction is caused

by a firearm or explosive weapon; or

(C) less than $1,500, if the property was a fence

used for the production or containment of:

(i) cattle, bison, horses, sheep, swine,

goats, exotic livestock, or exotic poultry; or

(ii) game animals as that term is defined by

Section 63.001, Parks and Wildlife Code;

(5) a felony of the third degree if the amount of the

pecuniary loss is $20,000 or more but less than $100,000;

(6) a felony of the second degree if the amount of

pecuniary loss is $100,000 or more but less than $200,000; or

(7) a felony of the first degree if the amount of

pecuniary loss is $200,000 or more.

(c) For the purposes of this section, it shall be presumed

that a person who is receiving the economic benefit of public

communications, public water, gas, or power supply, has knowingly

tampered with the tangible property of the owner if the

communication or supply has been:

(1) diverted from passing through a metering device;

or

(2) prevented from being correctly registered by a

metering device; or

(3) activated by any device installed to obtain public

communications, public water, gas, or power supply without a

metering device.

(d) The terms "public communication, public transportation,

public gas or power supply, or other public service" and "public

water supply" shall mean, refer to, and include any such services

subject to regulation by the Public Utility Commission of Texas,

the Railroad Commission of Texas, or the Texas Natural Resource

Conservation Commission or any such services enfranchised by the

State of Texas or any political subdivision thereof.

(e) When more than one item of tangible property, belonging

to one or more owners, is damaged, destroyed, or tampered with in

violation of this section pursuant to one scheme or continuing

course of conduct, the conduct may be considered as one offense, and

the amounts of pecuniary loss to property resulting from the damage

to, destruction of, or tampering with the property may be

aggregated in determining the grade of the offense.

(f) An offense under this section is a state jail felony if

the damage or destruction is inflicted on a place of worship or

human burial, a public monument, or a community center that

provides medical, social, or educational programs and the amount of

the pecuniary loss to real property or to tangible personal

property is less than $20,000.
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You really should read before posting.
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Maybe you should read your own posts

Holding someone accountable for their actions means letting them face the music for the crimes that they knowingly committed, it does not mean whining about how they are being deprived of their rights and advocating taking them behind some woodshed as compensation to their victims
Nobody is depriving anybody of anything, they forfeited those rights when they knowingly engaged in anti social felonious behavior.

Now where do you draw the line?
You think they should get a pass on the felony charge simply because they used paint to destroy someone else's bank account. What if they had broken windows of roughly the same dollar amount?
How about if they just stole a similar amount of property or damaged cars which prevents the owners from getting to work.
Still just want to take them behind a woodshed?

My stand on post time rights revocation is well documented, but they first have to do the time before they get the do over
 
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People make mistakes in life that are such that the consequences follow one forever. A felony is more serious than some teens think.
As for me, I think they deserve it, and now must suffer possibly life long consequences.

In my view kids get off with too much, and their parents do not seem to be held responsible.

Jerry
 
K3, anyway you cut it, it's vandalism. Would it be different in your mind had they broken windows or the glass of doors? Or "keyed" vehicles?

What's the practical difference, in terms of monetary loss, between what was done and outright burglary? Loss is loss; it takes time, effort and money from profit to pay off the costs of the actions. Profits that otherwise would have been used for paying rent or utilities; buy food, etc., or buy more stock-stock.

Art
 
K3, back off a little, friend.

Your initial posts did not emphasize the gun restriction aspect, only the idea that so many crimes are felonies. And, that's what I responded to.

For the record, I've long thought that the gun possession prohibition should only apply to felonies involving significant acts of unwarranted, initiated violence towards innocent parties. For example, a convicted check forger or tax evader with no criminal record of violent crimes could retain his RKBA rights after serving his time, even if his crimes involved theft of thousands of dollars. Likewise, a mugger who robs by committing physical assault or threat of bodily injury, with or without a weapon, would incur the prohibition if his crime reached the felony threshold. Your example of graffiti artists, absent any violent record, would, under my preference, not be reason to lose RKBA, even if their crime is a felony.

Is that a little better?

K
 
I agree that the dollar amount threshold for what constitutes a felony should be revisited periodically and adjusted for the changing value of the dollar. It's almost impossible to do less than a thousand dollars worth of damage to a car, even if you try.

K
 
How about this? You commit a violent felony. You serve your time. You get out and are prohibited from RKBA for a probationary period, say 2 or 3 years. After that, RKBA is restored ON THE CONDITION THAT YOU AGREE that if you are convicted of another violent crime, you go to prison for life. Unless you agree to that condition, no RKBA restoration. It's your choice.

Opinions?

K
 
I believe these boys should get taken behind the shed if convicted,
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Oh, give me a break. These were adults, not boys. I gather from the article that the two who were charged with felonies were over 18.

Two men with no respect for either the law or other people's property get no sympathy from me. I could care less if they lose their gun rights. Somehow, I managed to make it to adulthood without painting graffiti, smashing mailboxes, breaking windows, or doing other stupid things to prove my manhood. Perhaps they should have tried the same, or at least been smart enough to stop when they reached legal age.
 
Want a 3 year probationary period? Just extend the sentence 3 years.
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I like the idea of a probationary period as a means of evaluating the effectiveness of the rehabilitation
It's almost impossible to do less than a thousand dollars worth of damage to a car, even if you try.
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Then don't try.
Not intentionally damaging another's property should not be considered an undue burden.
 
I'm notgoingto lose much sleep over this.
Ever seen street signs that have holes shot in them? Not only is it illegal and in the same vein as tagging and other vandalism, but it gives all gun owners a black eye.
 
It amazes me that so many here would deny a man his RKBA rights for life based on an action that he by all rights will pay for.

1. Art, surprisingly, you miss the moint like many others. I believe I've already said that they should be punished harshly if convicted. A heckuva lot of damage was done, and payment needs to be made. Both monetary payment and time payment. If this payment is made, should they still be barred from RKBA for life? I say no. Hell, give 'em 10 years in the pen for it if that's what's needed.

2. Spreadfire Arms, I knew all that, and it is irrelevant as this is more of a philosophical discussion. A 'should it be this way' kind of thing if you will. My point still stands that too many crimes nowadays will render folks unable to exercise there RKBA rights permanently.

3. Joab, maybe your stand on revocation is well documented in other threads, but honestly now, should I have to dig through all of your other posts from months back to find it? Perhaps we don't disagree entirely, as we both think they have a lot of music to face. I am talking about after the song ends.

4. Kentak, mein freund, all of my posts are in line with the initial ones. I merely expanded as time went on. I can't agree with you on any probationary period for RKBA reinstatement.


Gents, I guess I'm too much of a purist when it comes to rights, especially the God-given inherent kind. My last word is a repeat, and that is:

If a person commits a crime, is convicted and sentenced, serves his time and pays his debt, his RKBA rights should be reinstated immediately upon release regardless of what crime is committed. If not trustworthy, then his sentence clearly wasn't long enough. IMO, violent criminals, repeat offenders, and the truly turdlike folks need to be locked up a lot longer. I believe more crimes should be treated with life sentences and the death penalty than is currently the case.

It's been a long day working from 8AM to midnight, so adios. :)
 
it won't be long before P----ng with out permission will be a felony, they could have been ordered to clean it up and put on probation for a couple months.
 
Re: Felony based on monetary damage estimates...

Case in point: Once, as a result of a car accident, my roadside 3-rail fence was damaged. Some time later, I received an insurance check for $650. It cost me $30 and about 1.5 hours with a post-hole digger to repair the fence.

This story pegged the damage at between "$1500 and $20000". This isn't really an estimate, just a quotation of the minimum damage range to qualify as a felony, "to send a message".

I bet a double sawbuck that: a) the actual damage could be repaired for much less; b) authorities are piling up charges as big as possible, and threatening as many suspects as possible, to "send a message"; c) all suspects, once sufficiently frightened, will quietly plea down to a misd. or infraction involving comm. service.

We had a rash of graffiti in our little town last year. The town passed a curfew for all teens, amid much fanfare. Many, many teens were picked up after curfew, "to send a message", none were ever convicted. The graffiti fad seemed to abate.
 
I know that's the paper law, but should that REALLY be a felony? Is it just to deprive a man of his rights for doing $501 worth of damage?
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You have to draw the line somewhere. These punks made a conscious decision to violate others rights, knowing there was a penalty associated with it if they got caught.
 
screw em
if they truly repent and change let em petition for restoration. its not an easy process nor should it be. if you aren't willing to work to get rights back you mprobably don't deserve em. rights come witha forgotten word responsibility gun ownership is close in seriousness to critter rearing. and needs to be taken responsibly
 
My opinion is that the law for almost all crimes is too harsh. If a crime doesn't deprive the victim of his property through theft, fraud or violence, what exactly is the crime? Misdemeanors punishable by a year in jail? Prosecutors who pile up the charges for the same offence, whereby that one misdemenanor can net you 2, 3, 4years. $1000.00 dollars in damages gets you a felony conviction, with all the problems that entails later in life? Our system of justice is badly broken. When politicians run for office as "tough on crime", we should ask, which crimes? And if we don't like the answers, we should run. To vote for their opponent.
 
If a crime doesn't deprive the victim of his property through theft, fraud or violence, what exactly is the crime?
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In this case the victim is deprived of the money for clean up, painted bldgs must be repainted, broken windows must be replaced, keyed cars are depreciated by the act

These crimes may not be violent but they still impact on the victims through no fault of their own
 
I guess that wasn't my last word.

It amazes me how quick folks are to throw others under the bus to protect their own turf.

'Screw 'em.'
'They gave up their rights.'

I wonder, and this is not directed at any one individual, do you really think that by giving the antis the loonies, the accused wife beaters, the graffiti artists, the convicted felons, or the purple polka dotted men that they will be satisfied and stop trying to encroach on the RKBA?

I don't buy the concept of 'sensible' or 'commonsense' gun legislation. The grabbers want complete civilian disarmament. I bet a decent percentage of soccermom types do too.

Taking the high road is fine and dandy as far as politeness goes, but materially giving the antis concessions of any kind is a mistake. Boiling slowly sucks. Ask the frog.

The only gun law needed is this one: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

We need to do away with all background checks, waiting periods, and limitations on # of guns purchased in a given timeframe. Dump the 1934 NFA and the 1968 GCA. Eliminate 4473s. I don't even like the whole CCW mess. Why do I need to get the government's permission to carry? Why do I need to get on one of their lists?
 
K3 is on the right track. Some of you aren't being very logical. Many others are.

K3's only point is that once time is served shouldn't a citizen be restored his rights?

The answer is an obvious and resounding "Yes"!

Perhaps you don't get it. Our laws are there to catch the law breaker. Law by it's very definition is only there to catch the criminal, not award the law abider. And with the creation of these frivolous laws being enacted left and right, it will not be long before many of us are criminals. We are no longer a free society.

Okay, let's take this a step further. If you lose your 2nd amendment rights. What about your 1st amendment, 4th and 5th amendment right? Are they also not lost. If you don't also lose them, that is clearly a double standard and I can only conclude there is a political agenda behind it. And that is a no brainer it is very clear to me the 2nd amendment is the one true defense of all other rights.
Are so many of you willing to sell out all rights of an ex convict? Well we'll see what your opinion is when the laws become so restrictive we are all felons...




P.S. I have already long ago decided if they push meddlesome laws on me, to the point where I am stripped of my rights for spitting on the sidewalk. Well they better just shoot me. I have nothing to lose and I will become a very seditious character.

I am a firm believer that the Bill of Rights merely contains the recognizance of my rights, it is not the guarantor of my rights. I'll be doing my own guaranteeing, thank you very much!
 
K3
If he's considered too dangerous to have certain rights restored, then why are we releasing him?
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Because he did his time. If prison is the punishment, assault must get less time than murderer; otherwise the assaulter might as well commit murder, too. It is not based on “trustworthiness.” (Which is not an either/or characteristic anyway. Everyone is trustworthy. To some degree. And also untrustworthy.)
So, do you believe that this one act should prohibit them from legal firearms ownership for the rest of their days?
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I believe it is a mistake to introduce firearms ownership into the equation at all. It stigmatizes firearms ownership as suspicious in itself. Imagine if ex-convicts were allowed to practice any religion they wish – except Judaism. What would that say about the official attitude towards Jews?

DZ
Want a 3 year probationary period? Just extend the sentence 3 years
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Why? You have the same problem at the end, no matter what the sentence is.
 
I don't believe that a felony should ever be determined by dollar value. Felonies should be determined by risk of bodily harm to others. If someone spray paints your house or scratches your car it can be repainted/repaired. The perp should have to pay for the damages and serve a penalty be it jail, community service, etc. Perhaps the penalty should be determined by dollar value.

If someone throws a brick through your window that brick or that broken glass could kill someone. If someone lights your house, garage, barn, etc on fire it could kill you if you are in there not to mention the firefighters that have to risk their lives to extinguish the fire. Those are violent acts.

A picked pocket is not a violent act, a forged check is not violent, cash or a checkbook stolen at gun or knife point is.

Drunk driving should be a felony on the first offense.

Again IMHO a felony should be determined by risk of death or bodily injury to others.

I don't like the idea of a probation period after being released. I don't like leaving anyone defeseless. Besides if they are determined to get a weapon to commit a crime they will probation or not. I however do like the 2 or 3 strikes and you're out/in prison for life.
 
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