Tinfoil Hat Brigade

My Tinfoil Contribution:
VT is going to secede on December 21, 2012, the same time the Mayans predicted the end of the world. Google Mayan 2012, you'll see what I mean! If its on the intarwebs, it must be true!

I'd actually like to see a state govern itself inside of our union. My understanding of it has always been thats how it's SUPPOSED to work. I can imagine that VT can support itself as a small country, they have enough farmland to support the current population, plenty of game. Much of my family is in VT, the Saint J area, and i'm not sure if I'd rather move up there or have them move down here in the case of secession. Food for thought though.

IMHO this country does not have the will for another "War of Northern Aggression" They could get away with it....and they should.....seriously what else will slow down central planning from the federal Govt? The GOP? haha......Seriously...

Yes, it will be a "free republic" again. Uh-huh. Now if they can just figure out how to stop the Mexicans from taking over their tiny little nation-state.

Yes, it will be a "free republic" again. Uh-huh. Now if they can just figure out how to stop the Mexicans from taking over their tiny little nation-state.

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Depends what you mean by "take over." If you just mean "move in until Taco Bells outnumber McDonalds," there's nothing to "stop." How many of my neighbors are brownish just doesn't matter to me.

If by "take over," you mean literally take charge of government and start pushing people around, then that is something to be alarmed about. The best way to prevent them--or anyone else--from abusing the levers of power is to dismantle them. Arm the militia (i.e., the people), disarm the government, and abolish the welfare state. If anyone attempts to push anyone else around by force, the victim should defend himself. With lethal force, if necessary. Problem solved. Nothing to fear from José, OR from Teddy.

--Len.

If by "take over," you mean literally take charge of government and start pushing people around, then that is something to be alarmed about. The best way to prevent them--or anyone else--from abusing the levers of power is to dismantle them. Arm the militia (i.e., the people), disarm the government, and abolish the welfare state. If anyone attempts to push anyone else around by force, the victim should defend himself. With lethal force, if necessary. Problem solved. Nothing to fear from José, OR from Teddy.

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Yep, problem solved all right--but that's not the Vermont I'm aware of. The liberal gentry from Boston and New York have displaced the Yankee stock long ago.

Beautiful state, but I fear for its future.

Even if "the people" did have the will to revolt, the .gov federal army would crush mightily and bloody said "people". Just because they can't accomplish this in Iraq don't mean they won't be excessively effective here. Many more "useful idiots" to aid "them". Joe

Even if "the people" did have the will to revolt, the .gov federal army would crush mightily and bloody said "people". Just because they can't accomplish this in Iraq don't mean they won't be excessively effective here. Many more "useful idiots" to aid "them". Joe

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I guess I'll just disaggree. I really dont think the country has the stomach for it. Hell where getting invaded now from the South.

We Live In Interesting Times

In the Chinese sense of the word. We have large multi-national conglomerates, and international treaties, trade laws, and customs unions going up. At the same time, we have nationalist movements springing up all over, wanting their "land" to be "free."

We have the Western World falling apart, being enundated by their former colonial subjects.

But, to me the greatest threats to our lives as we know them now, aren't those things. (They are symptoms of the real problems).

The greatest threats are from our international economic system for one. The Neo-Keynesian model of economics which is getting the crap kicked out of it by the Neo-Mercantilist policies of East Asian nations. And then, the threat posed by misuse of developing technologies. Governments like the concept of being able to control their populations. What you think, where you are, and how much you have.

We will in very short time face the prospect of East Asian dominance in the world as China enters a Pax Sinica. The Chinese will have control through economic means instead of military means.

At the same time, the West won't fall in a grand sense of the word. But, wanting to control the populations, Western governments, via corporate interests will institute laws designed to turn people into cattle.

Not by the stick, but by the carrot. Cameras are everywhere, and no one thinks about them. What about money? We've gone from using precious metals which were and are totally private, and free of manipulations from government or business, to cash. And now, we use mostly credit cards, and debit cards. Not because we are forced to, but because it's convenient. Do you really believe cash will continue to exist once the government decides it doesn't want privacy, and corporations want to know your buying habits? I doubt it.

Fortunately, there is a good to this. All of this stuff is based upon debt. And, it cannot last. It probably won't last more than 10 more years before there is a major catastrophic event.

Hopefully, when it happens, people will stand up.

But, there is no guarantee that people can or will.

But, I believe in thinking positively.

We will in very short time face the prospect of East Asian dominance in the world as China enters a Pax Sinica. The Chinese will have control through economic means instead of military means.

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Just try to get through a day without some reliance on products that originate in China. The clothes you wear. The computer you're using. Hardware, building materials, tools... the list is endless and growing. As we cede more production of stuff to elsewhere, Americans are losing the ability to be self-sufficient, and the knowledge required of self-reliance along with it. And we're doing it willingly.

Asian countries send their children here to get quality engineering educations while our culture places far more value on a law degree. Our public schools produce functional illiterates barely capable of providing menial service tasks.

Oh and the high price of oil? Driven there, we're told, in large part by demand from Asia. More money spent on gas leaves less in your pocket to buy quality products produced domestically, so you're forced to buy cheap stuff from where else, China.

If China unilaterally decided to increase the price of stuff they send here, what would we do? What COULD we do? China already controls our economy. Americans are just too proud to admit it.

I'm generally optimistic too but there's a nagging feeling in the back of my brain that says I ought to learn to speak Chinese. The first word ought to be "please?"

As we cede more production of stuff to elsewhere, Americans are losing the ability to be self-sufficient, and the knowledge required of self-reliance along with it. And we're doing it willingly.

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Self-sufficiency comes at a price: producing everything we need means producing, here, those things that can more efficiently be produced elsewhere. That is, self-sufficiency is the opposite of the division of labor. The division of labor is responsible for our living standards today, and without it six billion people could not live on this planet--many, or most, would starve.

At the same time, the division of labor reduces the likelihood of war. Why would the Chinese attack their best customers? Does that make sense? If it's such a great idea, why doesn't Walmart send troops on a rampage to kill their customers? The idea that the Chinese would undermine their own prosperity by attacking their trading partner is akin to calling them mindless animals, as in the parable of the scorpion and the frog. If goods don't cross borders, armies will.

We should bear in mind that it's not true that we can't supply our own needs, anyway. If China suddenly refused to trade with us, we could take over production of whatever we needed. Our standard of living would drop, true--but if we followed your advice, and shut down trade today in favor of "self-sufficiency," our standard of living would drop in just the same way. It would be like saying, "I realize I'll probably have a headache tomorrow, so I might as well hit myself on the head with a hammer today and get it over with."

--Len.

I'm not advocating suspending trade with China - that would benefit no one. It's just disturbing that another country could have such an inextricable trade relationship with us. Of course, this has been true since we've been importing oil for decades from the middle east, and we all know how dependence on unstable societies there has caused misery here. What disturbs me is the degree to which our economy has become dependent upon other nations whose culture and values are so radically different from ours.

Then again, I suppose this country is home to cultures and values that are radically different from one another already.

I do disagree with your assumption that restoring domestic production would be as simply as you seem to imply. I think the knowledge and skills necessary to do so are being exported, and slowly dying at home due to lack of interest.

I'm not proposing a solution, or even stipulating that one exists.

I do disagree with your assumption that restoring domestic production would be as simply as you seem to imply.

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You're right; it wouldn't necessarily be simple. But it's possible. If all foreign trade were suddenly cut off, we'd survive. We would suffer, though--that's why in time of war one tries to blockade the enemy.

--Len.

I like the Constitution just fine. No reason the scrap it and start over.

Now lets get to work voting statemen/women into office that will clean up the mess.

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Good luck with that!

Seriously...the Republic has been silently and gradually replaced, both in the ideals of the lemmings and in reality, with a democracy. It is to the point now that people speak openly and unashamedly of our "democracy." How did it start? How does in continue?

It's simple, actually: get control of the media, and slowly but surely, you can get control of what the majority thinks. The rest is like taking candy from a baby who's been taught that he doesn't want it anyway.

That majority of lemmings isn't going to let you vote in people to fix things. You're either going to have to do something, or do nothing. Your vote is nothing in the face of the media's power, so there's no use pretending that voting is "doing something."

Phetro said:

That majority of lemmings isn't going to let you vote in people to fix things. You're either going to have to do something, or do nothing. Your vote is nothing in the face of the media's power, so there's no use pretending that voting is "doing something."

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That's a very profound and true thing you've stated. The dumbing down of America, the gimmee-gimmee attitude, the lack of accountability and attaching responsibility for a screwup to anyone but one's self that is a stink in the uderbelly of society lends itself well to politicians pandering to the numerous unwashed masses. We know where that has lead.

The founding fathers gave the vote to only landholders for a reason...

The US hasn't been a republic for a long time - hell - I doubt if most Americans could even state the difference between a Democracy and a Republic.

mordechaianiliewicz

We Live In Interesting Times
In the Chinese sense of the words .................. (ETC)

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I agree. Very well stated.

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