Another SHTF Question

[jselvy]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Forum,

I have read much that you have posted about your concerns with the government. It seems that lurking in the back of our minds is the final question of what to do when good government goes bad. The question that I pose to you is; How do we know when it does?

Is there a seminal event or series of events the proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the government has become irrevocably tyrannical and must therefore be replaced? I am not referring to the actions of our fellow citizens in response to catastrophe, but the action premeditated or otherwise of government agents with specific regards to persons representing the Federal Government.

A wise man once said that if you are standing in your door to defend your home it is already too late.

I would very much like to read your considered opinions on this matter. I am NOT advocation armed insurrection in this instance. I just would like to know what the various learned ladies and gentlemen of the community would consider a reasonable "trigger event."


Thank You,
Jefferson

 

[Lashlarue]

Most won't offer an opinion, for fear of some big brother type turning you in.But I think we are fast approaching that time. Our congress is corrupt and it matters not which side of the aisle you sit.I lived through WWII so it is easy for me to see traitorous acts.i.e today ABC published an article re:CIA covert operations in Iran. During WWII that would have led to a firing squad.We have the Senate majority leader publicly stating that the war in Iraq is lost.I'm beginning to think some of our congress gets their facts each morning from Rosie O'Donnell.I think we have till the 08 elections, if we don't clean house on both sides, then I truly believe it is time to take up arms against this sham of a government.

 

[jselvy]

Mr Larue,

It's too bad that they got 1a in the crossfire for 2a isn't it

Jefferson

 

[Neo-Luddite]

You will know.

 

[HUMONGO]

I saw someone had a quote; When it's time to bury your guns, it's time to dig them up.

Simple and profound.

 

[jselvy]

Mr. Neo-Luddite,

You will know.

I thought I did.

When the Federal Government burned people alive for their religion, I thought that was it

When the Government Killed a mother holding her infant, I thought that was it

When Government agents stripped people of their arms and property in New Orleans, I thought that was it.

I guess that I just don't know, that's why I asked the question

Jefferson

 

[RPCVYemen]

Does this have anything to do with firearms?

Why are you asking a non-firearms related question to which you have an obviously prepared and rehearsed answer?

Mike

 

[The Deer Hunter]

We are already being censored.

 

[Bearhands]

yeah, what he (RCPVY) said.. good lord this "SHTF" stuff is being fomented with wild abandon.

 

[JWarren]

good lord this "SHTF" stuff is being fomented with wild abandon.

Which is why "SHTF" threads don't stay open long.


-- John

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

Does this have anything to do with firearms?

Why are you asking a non-firearms related question to which you have an obviously prepared and rehearsed answer?

Mike

How is this not a firearms related question?
I sometimes wonder if the government will have too many good people in it still to really turn on itself. It may be a semi gradual downslide into a lower and lower standard of living with more and more religious, political persecution with a continuing infiltration and war against the unity of American culture. At some point when it will go unnoticed splinter cells of radical groups within the U.S will begin conducting operations which they feel will help bring about a more socialist revolution within US borders with financial help from many nations worldwide.
This is conjecture, and I have many more ideas, but this one I see gaining ground in my head full of possibilities daily. I will not bow to the alter of socialism and Godlessness, and I will not convert to another religion by force, my family will not have a man at the door who will leave them without resistance, or a fight if necessary. . . . if we do not see these forces at work then we are living in a bubble of insulation, if we refuse to recognize the serious threats to our incredible country, if we downplay them and throw them off as rubbish and don't at least encourage mental and physical preparedness amongst ourselves and fellow citizens, then we are not citizens, we are not vigilant, we are not worthy of the sacrifice made by generations and generations of greater men before us.

and unless you are planning on using picket signs and swords, this has everything to do with the right to bear arms. And for the record, don't give up on the government entirely, there are bad apples, but there are many good men and women who have entered the highest halls of civil service and military service and take serious the oath to protect this land, the constitution of the United States, and from enemies foreign and domestic.

ST

 

[RPCVYemen]

How is this not a firearms related question?

As I read jslevy's question, it was how to know when to over throw a government. That is a political question completely unrelated to firearms. The when is unrelated to firearms - people overthrew governments before there were firearms. The question of how might involve firearms.

Looks to me like just an excuse to post a pre-rehearsed answer.

Mike

 

[44AMP]

Read "Unintended Consequences"

And then you will have to decide for your self when the handcuffs come out.

 

[Soybomb]

I'm not sure thats as much a matter of having to use them as much as having them to use. Historically it seems like many government led atrocities are preceded by disarming the people. Maybe just keeping the means to overthrow a government by force goes most of the way to being sure you'll never have to.

 

[unrealtrip]

No offense, but seriously....

You will not "know." It will not be some obvious attack. It will come slowly, over time and you won't even have had the chance to do anything about it. You are better off voting on a regular basis and encouraging your friends to vote. Look at Katrina. Perfect example. Cold dead hands? Yeah right, they came and took their guns without any resistance. Think it won't happen again? Think again. Think you'll take arms against the government? Think again.

Unless they start exterminating people in concentration camps, there will not be an armed revolution and thinking/wishing it might come is the asinine fantasy of your typical "gun nut."

 

[bogie]

If SHTF, I wanna be behind Pax...

 

[CH47gunner]

Maybe too late already

Look at all the "modern" history's precedances:

Pearl Harbor - US had prior knowledge, easily preventable, ulterior motives by bringing US into WWII on GB's side.

Tonkin Gulf Resolution - US rigged, falsified information, ulterior motives by bringing US into on SVN's side.

September 11th - US had prior knowledge/intelligence, easily preventable, Hmmmm.

Current Iraq invasion - US rigged, falsified information (WMD's), ulterior motives by bringing US in to protect oil interests.

They keep feeding "us" pablum & making us believe it's a good thing. "They" believe they can do whatever they want whenever they want.
One of these days they'll go too far & get caught.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Doomed!

We're doomed! (Doomed!)

Oh, wait, wrong commercial.

Never mind.

 

[obxned]

The fact that so many are afraid to post an answer is your answer.

 

[gdvan01]

Why are you asking a non-firearms related question to which you have an obviously prepared and rehearsed answer?

I smell a troll.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Troll?

Nah.

Anyone who can ask "what gun for wear with kilt" and who, moreover, knows his kilts is no troll.

jselvy, welcome to The High Road.

The "stuff hits fan" crisis/disaster theme is common enough here that 1) the threads don't often last long, and 2) many members are jaded on them.

Stick around.

You'll like it here.

Don't stress too much on the "threshold" question. Time comes, the tidal wave will be hard to miss.

Meantime, come, sit, join us by the fire.

Oh, can I get you something? Meade? Ale? Stout? Something with a bit more "character?"

 

[helpless]

IBFTL

The interesting part is that I am noticing conversation like this starting to pop up offline, you know in the real world.

 

[Plink]

Personally, I feel that the time had come decades ago. Unrealtrip is right. Unless there's some major breakdown, nobody will do anything. Even if they do, not enough will respond. Ever try to organize people for anything? Doesn't work.

Humongo's statement "when it's time to bury your guns, it's time to dig them up" is very true. But alas, the Aussies didn't take heed. Will we? By the time enough people wake up to act, it'll be too late to achieve anything but be in the history books as that small faction of radicals who died trying. I hate to sound fatalistic, but if we don't start making some serious progress in returning this country to what made it great to start with, we'll just end up like the other nations out there. With a lot of dead "martyrs" for a lost cause along the way.

Remember that when you vote.

 

[AStone]

Stick around.

You'll like it here.

Don't stress too much on the "threshold" question.
Time comes, the tidal wave will be hard to miss.

Meantime, come, sit, join us by the fire.

I second AG's suggestions.

Oh, can I get you something? Meade? Ale? Stout?
Something with a bit more "character?"

Well, as long as you're in the kitchen,
please bring out an extra mead
along with something having
a bit more character.

 

[Caimlas]

A wise man once said that if you are standing in your door to defend your home it is already too late.

Then I suppose you know for certain that the government has gone bad when you're thinking that you don't want to be the one to have to fire the first shot, and want some other bastard to test the water temperature for you.

Unless they start exterminating people in concentration camps, there will not be an armed revolution and thinking/wishing it might come is the asinine fantasy of your typical "gun nut."

Unfortunately, yes. If SHTF in the fashion described, it likely won't be a catastrophic, single-day event where the President declares martial law, firearms are banned outright, and UN peacekeepers take to the streets. You might see all those things on one day, eventually, but it'll happen over a protracted period of time if it does - so our culture can adapt and accept the change, in the same fashion where an abuser doesn't go straight for what they're after on first contact; they work up to it in order to not set off any internal sirens in their victims.

You'll wake up one day and say, "my god, how could I go by for so long and not do anything to stop it - and now it's too late!" And that will be that; and your children will tell their grandchildren about their weird gun nut conspiracy theorist father who lived in riches, but left his children nothing...