Another SHTF Question

[jselvy]

I thank you for your kind words.

I did NOT have a rehearsed response for anything, I was seeking the opinion of those wiser than I. Not a crime last I looked. I think that unless the community can agree on a threshhold event we will be taken individually as our specific threshholds are met. If we do not hang together we will most assuredly all hang separately.

If you choose not to answer the question for fear of what might be done to you by the authorities, what does that say about those authorities? They do not have to censor us since we are so effective at censoring ourselves.

I do not like being accused of trying to cause trouble for no reason.

Thank you
Jefferson

 

[FerFAL]

It’s a slow slide downwards, but no, it doesn’t seem as if TSHTF in USA. Heck, you still have 2A, do you even know how odd that is today in the rest of the world?
Now, the gun confiscation in NO, that’s something to worry about and should NEVER be allowed to happen again, though it’s standard procedure for gov. to ban or confiscate guns during a large scale crisis.

FerFAL

 

[redneck2]

I just heard the other day that more than 50% of Americans get some type of monthly support from the government. People won't rebel against the source of their revenue.

I look at the total disregard for immigration reform as the prime example of government corruption and/or indifference. Problem is, we're at the point that so many people are drinking at the well that we just won't change.

I see the prime problem as our own form of government. In order to get elected, you have to do things that blatantly violate the Constitution and are not in the best interest of the country.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

It would be nice if we could gage the SHTF probability with some sort of index. It's very subjective. You really could get someone versed in geo-political history and actuarial science to work up a '10 leading incticators list'.

There is a strong argument to be made that it has already happened. When you drop the gold standard and need to constantly be a war to force people to believe in the fiction of the fiat money backed only by 'hooked or crooked' barrels of oil--trouble has begun in ernest.


Then again, maybe we'll get 'lucky' and enjoy the clarity of purpose that only a mushroom cloud blooming on the horizen can provide.

 

[heron]

unrealtrip

No offense, but seriously....

You will not "know." It will not be some obvious attack. It will come slowly, over time and you won't even have had the chance to do anything about it. You are better off voting on a regular basis and encouraging your friends to vote. Look at Katrina. Perfect example. Cold dead hands? Yeah right, they came and took their guns without any resistance. Think it won't happen again? Think again. Think you'll take arms against the government? Think again.

Vote? Sure, I always do, but it may not make any difference, since the elections are being stolen. Check it out:

http://www.gregpalast.com/index.php

Get the book at the library and read it. It's totally outrageous and a real eye-opener.
This is not about Republicans vs Democrats, it's a CLASS WAR, and the Haves -- Repubs and Dems alike -- are disenfranchising the Have-nots hand over fist.
I read somewhere that there are only two Amendments left that haven't been effectively gutted already; the Second is one, and I don't recall the other that was mentioned.
One problem is that We The People cannot respond to encroachments that we are kept unaware of.

 

[Greek]

Even during the War of Independence...very few were willing to fight and stand up to be counted...

 

[czbegenner]

Yes that was a messed up deal in N.O. But i think we should learn from our mistake,we do have a given right (second amem) the right to bear arms.I think we as law abiding people need to remind our leaders.over and over.Look guys,we can't stick our head in the sand,when we come up we wont have nothing.

 

[Sharps-shooter]

food

It all comes down to food, believe it or not. When there's food on the dinner table every night, a populace will sit by while atrocities are being committed against their so-called countrymen. When food gets scarce, the rifles come out. I don't know where they come from, in some cases, but they come. and then there's a regime change or at least an earnest attempt at one.

I've gotten to see this first hand while living abroad, and anyone can read about it down through history. It's commonly the way it happens. Occasionally it's about other things, such as when a mercantile colony realizes it's being held captive by a less powerful force.

Up until that point, people may have severe unrest, feuds, brush warfare, unemploymen illeteracy and immigration, and so on. But it won'tlead to the dissolution of the .gov or any serious attempts at said dissolution.

 

[xsquidgator]

On the topic of "when is it time" to do something, I recommend getting your thoughts provoked by reading John Ross' "Unintended Consequences". I'm not advocating everything that's in that book but I thought it was a darned good read, and it made me think.

We're not the first people to have these thoughts, indeed, Mr Ross presents a story over decades where the characters debate the very same issue. I found his fictional account of Jews during the Holocoast and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising to be especially powerful, especially his depiction of a survivor's thoughts on the matter after the war. Borrowing from Ross' book, you've waited too long to act if you wait until you've been disarmed and herded into a camp and starved half to death. Mr Ross' story makes a compelling argument that the time to act (with force of arms if necessary) is when the government comes for your guns. One of his characters makes (I think) a great comparison between government clampdowns on rights and liberties, and a potential rapist trying to entice his vicim into his van and "fun with handcuffs" for bad purposes. It's all fun and games and hypothetical when you're standing right next to the bad guy's van talking about it, but once a criminal binds you up you've had it, you have lost the ability to resist. Ditto for the government and disarming citizens; once the government takes away their arms, the citizens become subjects who can't do boo about it after that. The time to resist is while you still have the means to do so.

Before dismissing that out of hand as crazytalk, consider the example of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943. A handful of people armed with a tiny collection of illicit guns gave the German army all they could handle for a week or three when they came to wipe out the ghetto. The bad guys, the Nazis, were so unprepared for vicitms who would fight back even a little, that it greatly disrupted their plans. The army armed with heavy weapons did eventually prevail, but they took a lot of casualties from a small number of determined fighters armed only with small arms. Think of the possibilities if instead of waiting until there were a handful of them disarmed and pushed into a ghetto, what if all the Jews in Germany had instead turned on their attackers in 1938 during Kristallnacht, or when the nazis came for their guns earlier in the 1930s? Especially if at that time, Germany still hadn't swung all the way towards full nazification? Some would say that there are parallels to our situation today. If people don't give up but fight when they should, even a powerful military will be unable to fully impose its will on the people to be subjugated (us). Especially if the military or government is trying to do something that many of its members think is barely or not legal, like trying to disarm the people. Between the casualties they'd incur in trying to fight their way into a populated area to control it, and defections/desertions from their own ranks, such a scenario could very well be thwarted by citizens defending themselves with arms. Which is what most of us probably think of as the intent of the 2nd Ammendment anyway.

I'm not advocating you or I do anything, but I think it's a thought provoking book to read. If nothing else it's an entertaining story.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

Maybe just keeping the means to overthrow a government by force goes most of the way to being sure you'll never have to.

HEAR HERE!
+1
_________________

Don't assume that trickery, conniving, and manipulation will always go as planned. Whether you see it as inspired word of God, or a work of incredible wisdom and historical teaching, Psalms has a lot to say about the plans of the wily and their work to destroy the just.

It may be exactly that we will get "lucky" (what a relative term here), and we will have no doubt. Things do not always go as "planned".

The same sickness that corrupts the intentions of the power hungry will destroy them from within their own ranks. The inspired have a tool more valuable than all the mercenaries in the world.

ST

 

[lanternlad1]

The gun confiscation in New Orleans was a GOOD THING. Look at the fallout that happened from it. Federal laws restricting confiscation of weapons in time of crisis. Many state laws about that too. By doing what he did, the police chief of NO struck a blow for GUN RIGHTS whether he meant to or not. Tragedies have a tendency of WAKING PEOPLE UP. "Holy Crap! The police can't REALLY be everywhere at once! What do I do now?" It gets people to start thinking, which is the opposite of what the government (any government) wants.

However, we, as a people, have already been conquered.

Want proof? Here ya go.

1.) Socialist Programs. Welfare, free education, social security, etc., dampen our ability to survive. If you don't need to worry about where your next meal is coming from, then you don't have to THINK. Your survival instincts don't kick in, and you become sheep. And once you have been lulled into a false sense of security, you are kept there by:

2.) Pervasive Entertainment. TELEVISION, movies, internet, etc all designed to keep us distracted with pablum. People are diverted from the REAL issues of the day with stories about Paris Hilton going to jail or Britney Spears shaving her head. Even the evening news is focusing on more "Human Interest Stories" than real issues - skewed as the facts may be by sensationalist reporters. American Idol, Survivor, etc. More people know about these things than can tell you who their representatives are. No wonder we're in such a mess. Those of you who are older can compare your time and this time and remember that TV was DESSERT, not the main meal. Idle Hands are the Devil's Workshop - and he's putting in overtime. You want to make things better? Start at home - TURN OFF THE TV. And in case you happen to do just that, you might start to wake up. However, if you do, the gov't is prepared for just such and emergency with:

3.)Unnecessary Entitlement. Giving titles and special treatment to the rich and powerful brainwashes them into thinking that they are better than you. This in turn leads to them believing that they can do anything, and then they do just that. It's a mindset. When you call someone by their first name, you are putting them on the same level as yourself. Try it and see. I once called my local rep. Sheila Jackson Lee by her first name and it PISSED HER OFF. She came back with "My title is REPRESENTATIVE LEE." To which my response was "I don't give my employees titles, and remember YOU work for ME." (She stormed off - truth hurts) Mr.President, Rep. Smith, Officer Jones - THEY WORK FOR YOU - not the other way around. I call my employees by their first name, I don't give them titles or preferential treatment. I'm the boss, and they know it. The problem is, our "leaders" have forgotten who the bosses are. WE pay THEM, so WE are in charge. But nobody uses the power they have. "If you don't like the job they do, vote them out." is only part of the solution. Once they are in the job we gave them, this is a way of reminding them who they are, and that no one is irreplaceable. Stop honoring them, and they will come around.

But don't take my word for all of this, read your history books. The Babylonians, Greeks, and Romans all did just this to their conquered peoples to keep them from uprising. Conquer the war of the mind, and you don't have to fight the war of the body.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

2.) Pervasive Entertainment.

and perversive entertainment.

st

 

[Justin]

Having a discussion about this topic isn't a bad idea, but couching it in terms of SHTF is just going to bring the Mall Ninjas out. Consider starting a new thread in L&P.