Is this really what tasers were meant for?

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priv8ter

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I didn't see a post about this story yet, but it made me shake my head enough I thought I would post it here:

UHP investigating trooper's Tasering of driver who refused to sign ticket
By Nathan C. Gonzalez
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 11/21/2007 02:12:20 PM MST


Updated: 2:07 PM- Was a Utah Highway Patrol trooper acting within policy when he Tasered a driver for refusing to sign a traffic ticket?
That is the question UHP internal investigators hope to answer after Trooper John Gardner - a 14-year UHP veteran - zapped Vernal-area resident Jared Massey with the device after he refused to sign a speeding ticket or submit to arrest about 10 a.m. on Sept. 14.
The incident placed UHP on the defensive when the cop's dashboard video of the emotional incident found its way onto Internet site YouTube.
"We've gotten quite a bit of publicity, especially since it's been on YouTube," said Trooper Cameron Dash-Cam Taser Video

Roden, a UHP spokesman. "We are doing an internal investigation to see if the trooper's actions were warranted. We are trying to expedite it."
The 10-minute long dashboard camera video begins when the officer passes a sign clearly showing a speed limit of 40 mph on U.S. 40. Gardner - who remains on duty Wednesday - then proceeds to pull over Massey's Dodge SUV.
The trooper approaches the driver's side window and twice asks for Massey's driver's license and registration. The second time, the trooper is audibly frustrated, saying says, "Driver's license and registration, like now."
"How fast did you think you were going?" the officer asks.
"I was going 68," Massey could be heard as saying.
"OK, there's a sign right there that says 40 mph," the officer says, shortly before returning to his squad car.
When Gardner returns to the SUV with the traffic ticket, Massey refuses to sign the citation, insisting that Gardner show him the 40 mph sign.
"Well, you are going to sign this first," Gardner said.
After refusing, Gardner asks Massey to exit the SUV, which 2:23 minutes into the video; he does.
The pair walk to the front of the officer's car, where Gardner points his Taser at Massey ordering him to place his hands behind his back.
"What the hell's wrong with you?" Massey says, while turning and beginning to walk back to the SUV. Gardner tells the driver to turn around, but he refuses and continues walking away.
The officer then aims the Taser, and 2:37 mines into the video, fires it at Massey, who can be heard screaming on the ground. Massey's screaming wife then comes outside the SUV and is ordered back inside the vehicle by Gardner.
Following the incident, Massey can he heard repeatedly asking to be read his Miranda Rights, but it remains unclear from the video, which cuts in and out, whether the officer complied with that demand.
Roden said he was unaware whether the man was given his Miranda Rights, but noted Massey could have been read them when booked into the Uintah County jail.
In the video, Gardner repeatedly states he Tasered Massey because he failed to comply with his instructions and demands. At one time he tells Massey that "on the side of the road is not the place to argue" the ticket.
"No, but on the side of the road is where I should have my rights read to me and tell me what I'm being charged with and why I'm being arrested," Massey retorts.
When a driver signs the traffic ticket, it' is not an admission of guilt but merely their legal acknowledgment that they promise to show up to court or to pay the ticket, Roden said.
In the event that a motorist refuses to sign a trooper has two options, Roden said. One is to write "refuses to sign" on the citation, which is then given to the driver. The second is to arrest the driver.
"I can't speculate to this incident what was going through officer's mind," Roden said. "The officer has to weigh a lot of different things."
Troopers that carry Tasers must also take a course on how and when to use the devices, Roden said. They are taught to use them in three circumstances:
The first is when a person is a threat to themselves, an officer or another person; second is in cases where the physical use of force would endanger the person or someone else; and third is when other means of lesser or equal force by the officer has been ineffective.
"There's a lot that goes into it," Roden said.

I have stated before MANY times, that I respect the hell out of anyone who can wear the uniform and carry the shield to be a polcie officer. Poopy Poopy job sometimes. I know for a fact that I don't have the temperment to do it.

However, I can't help but thinking that there a lot of current police officers out there right now who also don't have the right temperment.

It seems to me that there are an increasing number of cases where tasers are being used to take a shortcut. A mean, earlier this year, right here in my town, police used a taser to shoot a guy down out of a tree, causing him to break his leg in the fall.

Sigh.

The other thing that concerns me about this story, and the others I have read about this incident, is how the police department is now 'expediting' their investigation because the video ended up posted on You Tube, which I can't link to right now. If this video wasn't posted, how long would be before this officer got investigated?

greg
 
Long time viewer of the high road but never joined until I read this post. You miss the point here; the man was not tased for not signing the ticket, it was for his refusal to submit to handcuffing, walking away and failing to stop when told to do so. The man was trying to return to his vehicle, for what purpose? To flee? To get a weapon? You and I don't know and neither did the officer. The proper course of action for the officer was to stop the man before he got back to the vehicle. Would you rather he physically restrained him? Pepper sprayed him? ASP or maglight to the head? Any of those options have greater risk of injury than the taser. Sure the taser hurts, but only for a few seconds, then it's over. Most people comply after the first cycle. Believe me, I've been tased, it hurts, but I'd take it any day over pepper spray or going fist to cuffs. As to reading Miranda rights, that’s a big misunderstanding. Miranda only applies to custodial interrogation. Meaning when you’re arrested and the officer intends to interview/question the arrestee does Miranda need to be read. More intriguing here is how did the Police video make it onto YouTube?
 
His own rules

The proper course of action for the officer was to stop the man before he got back to the vehicle. Would you rather he physically restrained him? Pepper sprayed him? ASP or maglight to the head? Any of those options have greater risk of injury than the taser

Glad I'm not the only one up at this hour.

By his departments own rules, the taser is to be used only when lesser or equal force has been ineffective. In this case, the officer jumper right to his taser, because it was the easiest thing for him to do.

And, so what if the man was getting back into his car to flee? The officer already had the mans license, registration, and license plate number. I suppose a case could be made that going 68 in a 40mph zone like this yahoo was doing is a dangerous act, but...I don't know.

As for how the video was posted on You Tube, the guy that was Tasered was given a copy of the video under a 'Public Records Request'(whatever that is). From there, it looks like he posted it on You Tube, a pretty savey move...this poor officer, a 14 year veteran who might of just had one bad day, has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

Like nalioth said, this happened September 14th..how expedited of an investigation was it before this video hit the web?

In many ways, it's not just this case that has me spun up. A quick search for taser in most news services reveal some pretty aggresive use of these tools.

Just looking real fast, there was a death in Maryland last week, two in Jacksonville, Fl, and 2 in Canada, from taser usage.

Gosh, I know I sound like a wimpy anti-gun kind of person, but, it just seems to me that these are being used when they don't need to be. The taser should be your last resort before using your actual sidearm...right? I always thought that that was the original intent of them.

greg, probably wrong, like my wife always says I am.
 
If a civillian shot or tasered someone in those circumstances they would be guilty of assault.

It shouldn't be any different because someone puts on a uniform.

Weapons are for defense, not to force compliance.
 
If a civillian shot or tasered someone in those circumstances they would be guilty of assault.

It shouldn't be any different because someone puts on a uniform.

Weapons are for defense, not to force compliance.


Truer words are rarely spoken. I understand that cops have a tough job - my dad was one in Charlotte for a while during the days of public school integration, and I have a few friends from back home who are local PD.

However, that does not excuse behavior like this. Tasers are called 'less than lethal' measures, not 'substitute for all other actions we would have originally taken before being given this NEAT toy that makes people hit the ground in convulsions'.

Incidents like this illustrate that it should be a much easier process to press charges against police officers who use excessive force...instead the department will likely slap him on the wrist and he'll continue on the job.
 
In response to Nitrogen "Weapons are for defense, not to force compliance." For you as a citizen that may be correct but for an LEO it works both ways. The Taser is more of a compliance device than a defensive weapon.

In response to Priv8ter, "And, so what if the man was getting back into his car to flee? The officer already had the mans license, registration, and license plate number" Are you suggesting that when someone fails to comply with a lawful order a Police Officer should just turn tail and let the person leave?
 
Would you rather he physically restrained him? Pepper sprayed him? ASP or maglight?
Yes. And in that exact order. Taser should come after.

I have no sympathy for the arrestee. He refused to sing the ticket forcing the police officer to arrest him. He then resists arrest by attempting to flee to his car. I do not agree with the officer jumping to the taser. He should have tackled and physically restrained him first. It's called the continuum of force. It's the reason police officers cannot shoot someone right off the bat in a similar situation.

And, so what if the man was getting back into his car to flee? The officer already had the mans license, registration, and license plate number. I suppose a case could be made that going 68 in a 40mph zone like this yahoo was doing is a dangerous act, but...I don't know.
It could very much be a dangerous act. The man could have gone to his car to retrieve a weapon(less likely) or result in a high-speed chase where innocent bystanders can be killed(more likely). Gardner was very much in the right to stop Massey but he had options before the use of a taser became necessary and the means to use them.

That said I don't agree that he should lose his job but he should receive the appropriate punishment for what I'm sure is violation of his department's regulations regarding the continuum of force.
 
you are absolutely correct about the continuum of force. But the taser comes in at the same level as pepper spray. I've been around a long time..I can tell you that most anyone who's ever been pepper sprayed, struck with an asp or tasered, will take being tasered anyday.
 
I'd rather be smacked around personally. But Massey may have given up upon tackling. We'll never know. It's bad practice nonetheless to become dependent on tasers when there are other options and that's why such regulations exist(along with PR problems and such). And yes, tasers are the second to last tool a police officer can use for compliance. Thankfully it usually ends at that. Weapons may also be used for compliance by non-police civilians in certain circumstances too and have.
 
Please!

Please don't think I'm defending the chuckle head in the video. He should have manned up, taken his ticket and gone and cried to the judge.

I can tell you that most anyone who's ever been pepper sprayed, struck with an asp or tasered, will take being tasered anyday.

Except the 40-year old guy that died from being tased at the airport in Canada...

Are you suggesting that when someone fails to comply with a lawful order a Police Officer should just turn tail and let the person leave?

In the case of a non-violent offender like this, yes. If the officer was worried the guy might really try to flee...then follow him.

Chances are that when this guy got back in his car and told his wife what was going on, she would have told him to stop being a butt-head and sign the stupid ticket. End of story.

I realize there is another side of the argument. This guy could have gone back to his truck and pulled a Mini-14 out, thinking he was in Miami...so I know SargeD is going to say the officer was only protecting himself. Poopy part of being a police officer. If the guy did get back in his car, draw your taser/side arm, and WARN Him. I'm pretty sure this guy wasn't even warned in this situation.

Sigh.

It seems like the cop just got tired of dealing with the headache, and ZAP. No atempt at talking/negotiating, the old fashioned police work that used to happen. The tasing just seemed an necessary increase in the level of interaction.

And I guess that's about all I have to say about that...kind of repeating myself and rambling. Too much turkey.

greg
 
I'd rather be smacked around personally.


really? could you share with us the depths of your experience in this area? i mean actual experience in real life.


i'd have lit the moron up too. and i hope putting the tape out there as a legal manuver bites hiim in the butt at sentencing. seen some funny things happen that way.
what world do folks live in where an adult doesn't know about signing a ticket. or that failure to gets you a cop car ride. do they let kids in the magic campus kingdom believe that the rules are optional for them?
 
you young fellers on the high school or college wrestling team? ever try to wrestle with a gun and a gear belt? not near as easy as in those cute tights. take it from an old fart who grew up with stick time it hurts. was our young hero of the revolution injured? i mean besides looking like an as on video. absent taser he had a trip to the er in his future
 
Your post doesn't even make sense. Personally, I was never on a wrestling team, so I fail to see what that has to do with anything. And yes, I have done grappling with a gear belt - a full ALICE pack, actually. Still, continuum of force policies exist for a reason, and it's not so they become optional to follow. People who fail to follow them should be treated like the average citizen who gets arrested for assault.
 
who were you wrestling? were they trying to get your gun and kill you? were you alone on the side of the road orm was it a safe training exercise

its funny in my old age i try not to get in those situations and were some dimwit to do as this guy did he's riding the lightning.

less damage to both partys seems a good thing to me but maybe the scenario plays out differently in your mind. shucks maybes thats the difference you imagining it and me remembering it difference in perspective
 
My sparring partner, but what difference does it make. What you seem to fail to understand is that police departments have a policy on continuum of force which must be followed by all officers on that department as a matter of policy.

Cops enforce the law, they are CERTAINLY not above the law.
 
why should the driver even had to sign the ticket, everything that happend was taped to "protect the cop"... if the guy don't show up for court, put out a warrent, or hold his license when it comes due, no big deal. Americans are letting this become a police state more everyday.
we've never had to sign a ticket in our state and now the trooper dosen't even have to come to court, its up to the DA if the charges can be dropped or reduced.

Cops enforce the law, they are CERTAINLY not above the law.
you will have a had time convincing most cops of that..
 
is he really as dim as he appears? i want you to read me my rights? thats so funny. he keeps asking questions that i heard the cop answer. let me guess he wants to be a lawyer. do you folks really expect the cop to drive back with him to look at the signs? cop didn't seem that agitated to me. like the cop says when you're under arrest you don't get to go anywhere. apparently kid wasn't up to speed on that revolutionary development.
do folks really think signing the ticket is optional
 
If he's under arrest, he has to be read his rights. He wasn't read his rights, so it was an unlawful arrest, and he'll most certainly be cleared of anything (in fact he was, all except the speeding).
 
"My sparring partner, but what difference does it make."
lol you kin to jared?
did you fellers have a "safe word" in case it got outa hand? or an instructor to keep it in line?
i see this a a preventable event. sign ticket prevent it. realize nor signing gets you a cool ride in the back seat and put hands behind your back prevent it. not walk back towards truck talking out tail prevent it
its not that hard to get a speeding ticket unless you make it hard.
shoot check out how quickly the young hero of the revolution recovers from"THE BRUTAL TASING" he'd been worse off with out it. getting face pressed into pavement is not at all like sparring
 
If he's under arrest, he has to be read his rights. He wasn't read his rights, so it was an unlawful arrest

you are kin! take it from a guy with real experience at getting arrested(not sparring) you are mistaken.
 
he has to be read his rights before questioning its so different than on tv it often confuses heros of the revolution with eye poppin results
 
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