Police taking a LOOOOOOONG time to return handgun... Why?

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Downr@nge

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Atlantic County New Jersey
Hello fellow HighRoaders! I have another question for you all. (First, I want to say thanks for all your help in my other thread on my wife giving me trouble about getting a handgun.)

My best friend has a Taurus PT 24/7 Pro .45. About 1.5 months ago, it was taken by the police because of a non-violent domestic dispute that erupted in his home between him and his wife. His wife, doing the WRONG thing, listened to her friends, went and got a Restraining Order (Order of Protection) against him. All this took place on a Friday. By Monday, some relatives and myself had finally talked some sense back into her and everything was dropped.

Needless to say, that Friday when everything happened, the Police took his firearm away. They told him he could get it back if the restraining order was lifted. Well, the restraining order has been lifted long ago and they are giving him the run around about getting his gun back. He calls the police station and they tell him, don't call us, we'll call you when you can have it back. (They literally said this to him.) They have told this to him several times. He has no criminal history, has never been arrested for anything other than a traffic warrant once when he was 20 (for a non-payment of a $200 fine), has no negative mental health history, and to boot, he already has his Handgun Permit.

This all took place in New Jersey. Why are the police taking so long to give him his gun back? Why are they telling him there is nothing he can do until they are ready to give it back? Are they (the police) allowed to do this? My friend is a law-abiding, tax-paying, good sumeritan and it sucks that he is going through this.

Neither of us have a problem with Law Enforcement (heck, i'm trying to become a LEO!) so its not like he is belligerent or hates the cops or anything like that.

bjvkh.gif
 
Tell your friend he should get a lawyer or find some kind of legal help.

The next thing you should tell him is to RUN AS FAR AWAY FROM THAT WOMAN AS POSSIBLE. I've never seen a relationship involving restraining orders turn out very well. Time to cut his losses and bail out asap.
 
I live in NJ also,the EXACT same thing happened to a friend of mine in Sayreville. Some of the run around he got was:
They misplaced them
The person in charge was on vacation
We have no record of the RO being dropped.
You need a release from the prosecutor/judge.
It took a lawyer about 8 months to get his guns back.

Good luck.
 
Hire a lawyer and ask him to pack his bags and move into the police dept's ass until he causes more of a problem than he's worth.

You're in NJ, which means that the government, including/esp. the police, only allow you to have any guns at all because they haven't yet been able to go through the formalities of taking them away yet. My understanding is that Jersey routinely takes upwards of 6 months or even over a year to issue one purchase permit to somoene with no legal issues whatsoever. Your friend with a restaining order hanging over his head is going to get zero sympathy from anyone at the PD until he's no longer worth the trouble.

Also, I second the recommendation of getting as far away from that woman as possible. Your friend, if he values his guns AT ALL, has to know what kind of trouble an RO can cause him in the firearms world. I won't berate you for not leaving the state, as that's a very personal decision, but I'd encourage you to find any state line and move just accross it (even to NY, (but not NYC)) if you could manage.

Reid
 
Hire a lawyer and ask him to pack his bags and move into the police dept's ass until he causes more of a problem than he's worth.
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sorry all, but htats just a HILARIOUS way to put it! :D

As to the OP's question on WHY the PD is taking so long?
well, a pretty safe guess is they arent real keen on "civilians" :barf: having guns, and want to not give it back at all if possible, or make it as much hassle as possible if they end up FORCED to give it back. Basically hoping that getting that lawyer to force them will be too much time and money compared to the value of the gun, so you'll just give up. local, state, and federal departments have lawyers they are already paying anyways (with our tax money), so using them costs them nothing, whereas if it drags out long enough, one of us is likely to go bankrupt. They will NEVER run out of money or time, we eventually will, so they win by default when we cant afford to continue and have to give up. Neat huh? :rolleyes:
 
RUN AS FAR AWAY FROM THAT WOMAN AS POSSIBLE.
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Exactly. Tell him to just write the gun off as the fee for learning what he's married to.

Small price to pay to figure it out. Tell him to RUN, buy another gun after the divorce is final.

He doesn't need a firearm around her anyway, it will just cause trouble again later when she snaps again....... and she will.
 
Things may be just as Downr@nge is reporting. :scrutiny:

OTOH, it may be that this woman had reasons to fear her husband that his buddies don't know about. If so, his good ol' boy buddies have now browbeaten her into withdrawing the restraining order, and facilitated his re-acquiring the weapon that he may use to kill her, and probably himself. :uhoh:

Just pointing out that there are two sides to every story. If half the restraining orders filed by women seeking a divorce are filed strictly as a legal strategy without actual merit, then half of them are filed by women legitimately concerned that a husband/boyfriend's behavior could pose a threat to their lives. It seems that the knee-jerk reaction here is to blame the woman for causing the hubby trouble, then to bemoan the fact that he used a gun to kill her, giving the anti's more ammunition.

Just my $.02 worth, after 20+ years of investigating sex crimes and homicides.
 
They're doing it 'cause they can.......

One possible action and cheap is to take the local PD to small claims court for the return. relevant sections below.

TYPICAL CLAIMS FILED

Following is a general list of claims which can be filed in Small Claims:

* Breach of a written or oral contract.
* Return of money used as a down payment.
* Property damage caused by a motor vehicle accident.
* Damage to or loss of property.
* Consumer complaints for defective merchandise or faulty workmanship.
* Payment for work performed.
* Claims based on bad checks.
* Claims for back rent.
* Return of a tenant's security deposit.*

Please remember that if you believe you are entitled to damages greater than the money limits, but still wish to sue in Small Claims, you give up your right to recover damages over the money limits. The additional money cannot be claimed later in a separate lawsuit.

*Not to exceed $5,000.

Top of Page
CLAIMS THAT CANNOT BE FILED

The following is a general list of claims that cannot be filed in Small Claims:

* Claims arising from professional malpractice (for example, alleged malpractice by a doctor, dentist, or lawyer).
* Claims for support or alimony from a marital or a domestic dispute.
* Claims arising from a probate matter.
 
Before he worries too much about his gun, he needs to deal with his marital situation. I am not suggesting a divorce, but he needs to give that situation a long look see. If she did this once, she will do it again.
 
I'd CAll the ATF and tel them teh gun was stolen and file the proper paperwork. Tell them you understand that the firearm has been recovered and is in the posession of the Police and you weant it returned.

I'd bet you have it in your hands in 10 days or less.
 
Unless the gun is valuable or is a family keepsake , I'd let it go.

Just make sure that you have a valid dated receipt from the police department with the serial number on it.

If possible, you move out of N.J. and but let the wife stay there. Visit when you can.
 
I'd CAll the ATF and tel them teh gun was stolen and file the proper paperwork. Tell them you understand that the firearm has been recovered and is in the posession of the Police and you weant it returned.
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You've gotta be kidding. That might work, except for the fact that the ATF would contact the police department in question to investigate the situation, and quickly find out that the gun WASN'T "stolen and recovered" by the police, it was CONFISCATED by the police in response to a domestic issue.

That's called lying. And Federal authorities (like the ATF) really don't take kindly to lying, especially when guns are involved. They also don't take kindly to being jerked around and sent on a wild goose chase to get some commoner's gun back that (by law, whether it was right or wrong) should have had it confiscated. And I'm sure the local police department doesn't take too kindly to false reports, either.

Seriously - if you don't have any good advice, DON'T GIVE ANY. Giving advice like this can get people into serious, serious trouble should they be feeble-minded enough to follow it.
 
resources

Perhaps contacting the NRA or thte NRA_ILA will provide some advice or insite into this breach of public trust. Ive never had to avail myself of any such legal aid but if youre a member you should give it a try.
 
If the police (generally) can hassle a gun owner, they will.

Around here, a "lawyer letter threatening litigation" is required before they'll release a firearm. The cost of the letter is just an unofficial "fine" for having the audacity to own a firearm.

Get rid of her and out of NJ as soon as you can.
 
I'd CAll the ATF and tel them teh gun was stolen and file the proper paperwork.

That could turn his present problem into an 18USC1001, False Statement to a Federal Officer charge and get him a 5 year felony conviction.
 
the gun WASN'T "stolen and recovered" by the police, it was CONFISCATED
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Semanitics. I say if someting is taken and not returned, regardless of the original situation, IT is stolen in my book. They, LEO, have NO legitimate reason for not returning the firearm.

When does confiscation become theft? When the item taken is NOT returned.
From the merriam-webster Dictionary.
Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: \ˈstēl\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole \ˈstōl\; sto·len \ˈstō-lən\; steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
Date: before 12th century
intransitive verb
1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
2: to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3: to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive verb
1 a: to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b: to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c: to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss> d: to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>
2 a: to move, convey, or introduce secretly : smuggle b: to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner <steal a visit>
3 a: to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring <a basketball player adept at stealing the ball> <stole the election> bof a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard
— steal·able \ˈstē-lə-bəl\ adjective
— steal·er noun
— steal a march on : to gain an advantage on unobserved
— steal one's thunder : to grab attention from another especially by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation; also : to claim credit for another's idea
synonyms steal, pilfer, filch, purloin mean to take from another without right or without detection. steal may apply to any surreptitious taking of something and differs from the other terms by commonly applying to intangibles as well as material things <steal jewels> <stole a look at the gifts>. pilfer implies stealing repeatedly in small amounts <pilfered from his employer>. filch adds a suggestion of snatching quickly and surreptitiously <filched an apple from the tray>. purloin stresses removing or carrying off for one's own use or purposes <printed a purloined document>.
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I might not say it was stolen but I'd sure let the Fed's know that the local PD is viloating the law and not legally returning your property.

At very least I'd file a small court claim to recover the items seripticiously not returned.

Seriously - if you don't have any good advice, DON'T GIVE ANY. Giving advice like this can get people into serious, serious trouble should they be feeble-minded enough to follow it.
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Thanks for the advice.:rolleyes:
 
Hypnogator wrote:
Things may be just as Downr@nge is reporting.

OTOH, it may be that this woman had reasons to fear her husband that his buddies don't know about. If so, his good ol' boy buddies have now browbeaten her into withdrawing the restraining order, and facilitated his re-acquiring the weapon that he may use to kill her, and probably himself.

Just pointing out that there are two sides to every story.
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All right, fair enough.

In one case, if he was in the wrong and there was just cause to get the restraining order, then that woman is with an abusive or potentially violent man - answer to the situation in her best interests is divorce so she doesn't have to live in fear. On the other hand, if he was in the right and she way over-reacted and out of spite or malice got a restraining order as a "get back at him" maneuver - answer to the situation in his best interests is divorce so he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life worrying about a petty backstabbing woman that he can't trust.

Gun or no gun, this relationship is dead, Jim. The sooner everyone realizes that and moves on, the sooner they both get a chance at a decent relationship and a fullfilling life.
 
I would think it will take a court order to have the gun released.
I also guess you need a lawyer to get that court order done correctly.
 
I'd CAll the ATF and tel them teh gun was stolen and file the proper paperwork.

That could turn his present problem into an 18USC1001, False Statement to a Federal Officer charge and get him a 5 year felony conviction.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
INSTEAD, what I'd do is contact the BATFE (I REFUSE to call them the ATF. That's NOT their name.) and inform them of the situation and tell them you BELIEVE that the gun has been misappropriated by a member of the local PD. That is not only POSSIBLE, but it happens all of the time in various places. THAT could prompt a serious investigation of evidence handling practices in that department. Whether he gets the gun back or not, he'll get a measure of revenge on the perpetrators and it may deter that kind of thing in the future, whether they're actually stealing or not.

And good luck to anyone trying to PROVE that you DON'T believe that it's stolen. I'm not even personally involved, and I think it's a real possibility.

And add me to the list of people who think that if the domestic was as described, that he needs to make other living arrangements. I have a few simple rules in life, and one of them is "I'd rather die alone than be hounded to my grave."
 
Things may be just as Downr@nge is reporting.

OTOH, it may be that this woman had reasons to fear her husband that his buddies don't know about. If so, his good ol' boy buddies have now browbeaten her into withdrawing the restraining order, and facilitated his re-acquiring the weapon that he may use to kill her, and probably himself.

Just pointing out that there are two sides to every story. If half the restraining orders filed by women seeking a divorce are filed strictly as a legal strategy without actual merit, then half of them are filed by women legitimately concerned that a husband/boyfriend's behavior could pose a threat to their lives. It seems that the knee-jerk reaction here is to blame the woman for causing the hubby trouble, then to bemoan the fact that he used a gun to kill her, giving the anti's more ammunition.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU!!! A sensible caution.

My best friend has a Taurus PT 24/7 Pro .45. About 1.5 months ago, it was taken by the police because of a non-violent domestic dispute that erupted in his home between him and his wife. His wife, doing the WRONG thing, listened to her friends, went and got a Restraining Order (Order of Protection) against him. All this took place on a Friday. By Monday, some relatives and myself had finally talked some sense back into her and everything was dropped.
Click to expand...

He needs a lawyer.

Springmom
 
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