ND last night. Listen and learn.

So did your ND cause your friends to rethink their CCW permits? Or did they get them anyway?

I appreciate the careful post-event analysis.

What's the difference between a Euro and US style mag release?

BTT for the semi-annual reminder ...

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Thanks for sharing.
Is it part of your penenace to occasionally bump the thread for your sin?

P.S.
Distinctly remember my ND like it was yesterday. At thirteen years old, had the Ruger out one summer night to dispatch a critter holed up in the corner next to my dog's house. Back inside, dropped the mag and pulled the trigger.
The only losses were a glass lamp shade (bad) and my pride (good).

What's the difference between a Euro and US style mag release?

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A US style magazine release is the little button that sits just behind the trigger. That's what most of us are used to.

A European style mag release is on the bottom of the magazine well.

American vs Euro

American-button on one or both sides
European-catch on the bottom

Learned to stick my finger into the chamber to check it before closing the slide but like most of my buddies we got complacent and stopped doing it. A friend of mine took over the watch at the ASROC station and his mind was elsewhere as he performed the usual count the bullets accept the gun etc. routine. Only this time he inserted the magazine before he let the slide go forward and pulled the trigger on a loaded chamber. He was still standing there with the gun in the air when they came to take the gun away from him and relieve him of his watch. The Captain had just stepped onto the flying bridge and the round came up between his feet. Since that day in 1968 I have been fanatic about sticking my finger in the chamber even though the light was good and I could see down into the barrel and down the magazine well.

That being said, 3 years ago I discharged my 300WBY through the wall of my deer blind in front of 2 people after I had just bragged I had never had a serious incident with a firearm in 40 years. There is a God and he has a way of making proud people humble. Only thing hurt was my pride and my credibility. On the way home I had to stop my car, go into the ditch and throw up. I don't get shook up very easy but that got me.

Good reminder, Brad. Thanks.

Ain't that the truth. Almost had a ND with a 10/22 when I was about ...

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This was a good story and reminded me of the time I was in a pawn shop/FFL when an employee was opening up a shipping box which contained an AR-15 that had been shipped in for a transfer to a local buyer. He removed the weapon from the carefully packed box, saw there was no mag in the rifle, picked up the gun without going near the trigger, pointed the gun toward the ceiling, yanks on the charge handle to check the chamber and.....out pops a metallic object which bounces off the counter and clinks onto the floor!

It was a A-Zoom .223 Snap Cap.

Scared the hell out of him. Kinda scared the hell out of the rest of us in the store too.

I have said it before and i will say it again. I have one dead uncle and one dead brother in law due to "empty" and unloaded firearms.

JohnKSa said:

Multiple people handle a single firearm with ammunition in the same area.

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Yup.

If I am in a non-range setting and handling firearms with others, I make sure there is no ammo present (except that which is physically in my CCW).

And I always assume that if multiple people handle a weapon, the weapon needs to be UNLOADED before being put away.

If dry firing is done ... muzzle gets pointed at bucket filled with sand.

Recently purchased a "Safe Direction"

I've been following the four rules ever since I touched my first gun. But recently someone asked me how I know what a safe direction is. We were unable to locate a safe direction in the room in which we where standing.

When I got home, I realized that in the room in which I have my gun safe, I don't have a safe direction. I was assuming that the safe itself could be used as a back stop, which may be true, but odds are the bullet would ricochet can come back out of the safe.

So I wound up purchasing a Safe Direction to use when loading and unloading my guns.

I have not had a chance to test the Safe Direction (and I hope I never will) but I now am much more confident that if I do have an ND, the round will be contained.

BTW, I have no association with Safe Direction other than as a customer.

With .22s especially, look and feel into the chamber. Extractors fail to pull out live rounds more often than we expect.

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+1! .22 pistols often have failures extracting loaded rounds.

Other than for my carry gun, which I never show anyone, my guns and their ammo only meet at the range, otherwise they are stored separately.

For most guns I keep a spare mag in them to facilitate locking back to show clear, but the loaded mags are never with the guns except at the range.

--wally.

I've never had an n/d but i did have to shoot a matress once that was attacking me. That ole S&W .38 took care of the problem right quick.

One question:
What's the reason for pulling the trigger on an empty weapon? To relive the pressure on the trigger spring? Or......?

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Reminds me of the crazed coffee table I had to put down once.

.....Nope, never had a ND, just one crazy table with a death wish..............

I’m glad to hear everyone came out of it smarter and uninjured!

El_Tejon said:

Even though you violated Rule #1 (All guns are always loaded)…

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This is another case of saying something that sounds good because it sounds good, not because it has any substance. It is the dumbing-down of the real firearms rules that contributes to these NDs.

All guns are not always loaded.
If they were always loaded we would never clean, admire, show, or dry-fire them.

By definition, a RULE must be inviolate. You cannot teach and practice, “all guns are always loaded” and then demonstrate behavior completely inconsistent with the statement. By bastardizing the real rule you enable dangerous situations like the one in the story.

If I say I have a rule that I will not drive after drinking alcohol only to decide later, when I’m drunk, that I can probably make it home and drive, then I really have no rule at all. I will have demonstrated that the “rule” is a lie.

The real rule is, “Treat every firearm as though it is loaded until you have verified it is not.” To which I add; “If it leaves your hand for any amount of time, check it again.”

If you or the person to whom you’re teaching firearms safety cannot intellectually grasp the real rule and you have to simplify it so much that it becomes a lie, it would be best for everyone if you/they didn’t own a firearm.

I don’t think the OP violated Rule 1 as much as he failed to properly clear the weapon. He tried, but missed a crucial step. Fortunately, he does know the rules of handling a firearm and had it pointed in a safe direction. Please, do not teach, “every gun is always loaded” because nobody really believes or follows it.

Glad you're okay. I always try to be extremely sure a gun's unloaded when I think it is. Release the magazine, look down the magwell, look down the chamber, put my pinky finger to the chamber to check again, then look down the business end of the barrel. Then it's 100% unloaded.

Wow! Just Wow!

Thanks for sharing your story.

Now for my daily reminder....

I will be a safety fanatic.

I will be a safety fanatic

I will be a safety fanatic.

O.K. That should get me through untill the a.m.

In the Army, I also had a SIG P220 9mm

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Don't mean to bust your bubble, but there's no suck thing as a SIG 220 9mm. They come in .45 and that's it.

there's no suck thing as a SIG 220 9mm

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He must have meant a 226 or 229

Brad,
It takes a lot to admit you had a ND, especially because once you tell about it, all the OSHA-wannabes come out of the woodwork to make you feel stupid by letting you know exactly what you did wrong and what you should have done (as if you don't know). I, on the other hand, know that having one changes your attitude more than what some strangers on a forum can tell you. Having one is enough to remind you forever.

It is a dumb move on people's part, but you're not stupid. That is the whole reason why you practice "safe direction". I had a ND with my XD, and I'm not afraid to admit it...I'm more of a safety freak now then any of my friends who haven't had one. I shot "safetly" down into a mattress, and nobody else was around. Stupid, but safe direction nonetheless. I personally wouldn't feel bad about it...I keep the case on display to remind me.

Very glad it was a non-injury event - and thanks for sharing.

However...the simplification of this rule:

...All guns are always loaded...

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...always drive me crazy!

If this is true - with absolutely positively NO EXCEPTIONS as everybody seems to be so fond of insisting, will someone please explain:

How you clean a loaded gun?

How you load a loaded gun?

How you thoroughly inspect (crown, rifling, etc) a loaded gun?

Thanks for your honestly and willngness to dissect that experience -- I hope it helps at least one person (me, for starters!) to avoid doing the same.

timothy

It's not always easy to admit mistakes. It makes us all think, however. Thanks.

I appreciate reading this thread. It helps me review my own safety precautions. Thanks for your openess about this.

Gotta agree with mainsail and rainbowbob, and add a bit. An unloaded gun never hurt anyone unless it was used as a blunt instrument. If it goes off, it was loaded. You just didn't check it properly.

From what I read, and I hate to bring this old story up again, the OP made the same mistake as Mr. "Professional" DEA. He checked the chamber, but not the magazine well. Sorry to put you in with that character, Brad.

Well said Mainsail. All guns are NOT always loaded. Makes no sense.

Rule 1: Treat every gun as if it is loaded until it is verified that it is not, and even then, do not violate the rest of the rules.