U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Mainsail Quoted:
ND last night. Listen and learn.
- Thread starter Brad Johnson
- Start date
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Stevie-Ray
Member
Until you have verified that they are not!
ReadyontheRight
Member
The best Safety is between the ears. Thanks for making us all a little smarter by your experience. I am so glod no one was hurt.
With any autoloader, I always rack the slide twice when I think it's empty. For this exact reason. Of course, my routine could easily get too routine, so thanks again for the post and your reminder.
With any autoloader, I always rack the slide twice when I think it's empty. For this exact reason. Of course, my routine could easily get too routine, so thanks again for the post and your reminder.
nerfsrule2
Member
Thank you very much for the post...You might take a little heat but in sharing your situation it is a safety reminder to all... Thanks
Mainsail
Member
That’s pretty much the same thing. If I sub in your rule, it works out the same. If I treat all firearms as if they are loaded and ready to fire, how will I get it clean? I’m not about to ram a cleaning patch down the barrel of a gun that’s ‘loaded and ready to fire’. I’m not going to dry-fire a gun that’s ‘loaded and ready to fire’ either. So again, the rule is a lie because you’ve allowed unstated exceptions.U.S.SFC_RET said:
That’s certainly one way to get careless, but by no means exclusive. People also get careless when they don’t ‘practice what [they] preach’ with regards to firearms safety. If I’m teaching my son the four rules of firearms safety and I teach him that he should “treat all firearms as if they are loaded and ready to fire” and he later observes me NOT treating the gun as if it were loaded and ready to fire, he will find disrespect for that rule as well as the other three. By clearly demonstrating that I am above the rule (again, dry-firing or showing it off to someone else) I am teaching him that the rule, and the other three rules by association, are not inviolate, and thus really not rules at all. “Do as I say not as I do” can only lead to contempt for all the rules. While that may be acceptable for minor things like “don’t use the F word”, it is entirely unacceptable for rules about dangerous or deadly equipment. “Don’t clean out the grass chute on the lawn mower” is not as good a rule as it sounds, because it’s unrealistic; you’re not going to throw the mower away if the chute becomes clogged. “Don’t clean out the grass chute on the lawnmower until you’ve verified it’s shut off and unable to start” ensures you’ll keep all your fingers and is practical enough that you’ll actually follow it.U.S.SFC_RET said:
As Stevie-Ray points out, you’ve only recited half the rule, and half a rule is not a good habit.U.S.SFC_RET said:
rainbowbob
Member
Mainsail:
I'm so relieved I'm not the only one who is always bothered by the recitiation of the always rule.
You have described precisely why it makes no sense and why the complete rule should be recited. Reciting a rule that everyone routinely breaks is ludicrous and breeds contempt for the rules as you pointed out.
I always handle my unloaded firarms safely because the rule (in my universe) says they are loaded until you verify - TWICE - that they are not loaded. I never short-circuit or short-change that verification process. Consequently I am able to handle an unloaded firearm as though it was unloaded without fear.
Hate to burst your bubble in return, but SIG made P220s in 9mm and .38 Super as well as.45. Don't think they make P220s in anything but .45 any more, but they imported the other calibers back in the day.
And thanks for the original post, always a good reminder about the safety rules.
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Mainsail You are right in alot of regards. The intent is exactly the same. Its no big deal so lighten up.
To me firearms are always loaded until I verify that they are unloaded. I dry fire pistols in the house because I train in the house. I clear the pistol as I was trained to do.
Read into the intent and explain the intent as to why. the rule works when you are passing a firearm from a dealer to a customer and customer to a dealer. Mistakes happen from time to time.
However you do it just respect firearms, I am sure that you respect them.
To me firearms are always loaded until I verify that they are unloaded. I dry fire pistols in the house because I train in the house. I clear the pistol as I was trained to do.
Read into the intent and explain the intent as to why. the rule works when you are passing a firearm from a dealer to a customer and customer to a dealer. Mistakes happen from time to time.
However you do it just respect firearms, I am sure that you respect them.
First off, glad to hear no one was hurt.
Second, you were stupid, but you already know that.
Third, at least that is how I felt when I had mine...
Every time I think about it I feel sick to my stomach, this is 2 years later. I can honestly say it was the stupidest thing I have ever done.
Gotta love well meaning friends trying to be helpful around firearms. Always a bad combination from my experience.
I would like to thank you for posting your experience here. I get so frustrated everytime I tell a friend to check and see if a firearm is loaded, point it in a safe direction, I tell them it's unloaded/loaded... and I get a reply of, "I know dude" I always try to explain that I too "knew" when I blew a hole in my kitchen wall.
be safe.
Second, you were stupid, but you already know that.
Third, at least that is how I felt when I had mine...
Every time I think about it I feel sick to my stomach, this is 2 years later. I can honestly say it was the stupidest thing I have ever done.
Gotta love well meaning friends trying to be helpful around firearms. Always a bad combination from my experience.
I would like to thank you for posting your experience here. I get so frustrated everytime I tell a friend to check and see if a firearm is loaded, point it in a safe direction, I tell them it's unloaded/loaded... and I get a reply of, "I know dude" I always try to explain that I too "knew" when I blew a hole in my kitchen wall.
be safe.
1776 Rebel
Member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2007
- Messages
- 38
Always have a backup...yes train for safety but the following is a good idea IMHO. Not that expensive either...
http://www.safedirection.com/ballisticcontainment.html
http://www.safedirection.com/ballisticcontainment.html
CNYCacher
Member
Why did you pull the trigger?
abrink
Member
Ooopssssssss
My mistake. That's what i get for running my mouth before i have the right info. Now that I do i realize that at one time they were made in 9mm.
Drgong
Member
I always check it when a gun goes into my hand, even if I just handled it, as you never know when a gremlin will load a gun.
Brad ~
Thanks for posting this thread in the first place, and for regularly bumping it to the top as a reminder. It's good for all of us to remember that it can happen to anyone who becomes complacent!
Mainsail and rainbowbob ~
I believe you are both wrong. And your restatement of Rule One (...'unless you have verified...') is extremely dangerous. In fact, that restatement completely erases the entire meaning of Rule One.
To be clear, here's Rule One:
All guns are always loaded.
Several people on this thread have suggested that the rule should be, instead:
All guns are always loaded ... unless you have personally verified that it is not.
The problem with this mentality is that you've just set in place the notion that there are in fact two sets of rules: one for "loaded" guns, and another for "unloaded" guns.
Loaded guns, you think, you will treat one way. You will keep them pointed in a safe direction at all times. You will keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target. You will be sure that the target you select is a good target and has a safe backstop.
But "unloaded" guns -- guns that you personally have verified -- don't have to be treated with such caution.
That's the mindset.
And that's the mindset that gets people killed.
Rule One is actually very simple, but some folks can't wrap their brains around it. The basic meaning of Rule One is very simple:
The safety rules always apply.
They apply regardless of whether you have "checked" the chamber or not. Take a look at this old thread and note how many of the incidents involved a poorly-performed chamber check: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282550
When you decide it's okay to throw out the rest of the Four Rules because you've "checked," you are literally saying that you will NEVER make a mistake when you check. That's a lie -- as Brad and countless others have discovered, human beings make mistakes.
The purpose of the Four Rules is to prevent tragedy when a human being makes a predictable and utterly understandable human mistake. Even if you think the gun is unloaded, you STILL never point it at a human being. Even if you are intending to disassemble the gun, you STILL never put your finger on the trigger until you've picked out a good place for a bullet to land (a "target," by definition!). Even if you are intending to dry fire, you STILL select a deliberate target with a solid backstop capable of stopping the most powerful round your firearm is capable of containing.
And you do all that because human beings make mistakes. Your chamber check -- no matter how carefully performed -- might have failed. The ammo fairy might have come along and loaded your gun when you blinked. Your extractor might be broken. Whatever.
As for the question:
I take my loaded gun. I unload it. I visually inspect the chamber and magazine well. I run my finger into the chamber and into the magazine well to be sure both are empty.
And then I continue to follow the remainder of the Four Rules anyway!! -- because that is how I treat an allegedly "unloaded" gun.
Specifics?
To disassemble my Glock, I empty the gun via the procedure above, check and double check.
I remove all ammunition from the room.
Check the gun again -- without pointing it at my children, my cat, or my own favorite body parts (Rule Two).
Because I must put my finger on the trigger to disassemble the gun, I choose a target -- that is, a deliberately-selected spot which is the best place in the area for a bullet to land. Just because I think the gun is unloaded is no reason to violate Rule Three. I point the firearm at a deliberately-selected target before I ever touch the trigger.
And when I select that target, I make darn good and sure that it is something I am willing to shoot, and that the area behind it will stop a bullet without creating any further damage. (Rule Four.)
By the way, a lot of people get hung up on that word, "willing." I don't want to shoot a bucket of sand in my bedroom, or destroy my expensive Safe Directions bag. I'm just willing to risk shooting these things if I make a mistake.
After the gun is disassembled, it is no longer a gun (no longer a mechanism capable of launching a bullet), and thus I may complete all the cleaning, crown inspections, rifling checks that my little heart desires.
But I damn sure don't fool myself into believing that I am the only human being on the planet capable of checking a firearm and being sure that it is indeed unloaded. Because I am human, and human beings make mistakes.
When you rely on only ONE layer of safety (unloading the gun), all it takes is ONE mistake to cause a tragedy.
pax
Thanks for posting this thread in the first place, and for regularly bumping it to the top as a reminder. It's good for all of us to remember that it can happen to anyone who becomes complacent!
Mainsail and rainbowbob ~
I believe you are both wrong. And your restatement of Rule One (...'unless you have verified...') is extremely dangerous. In fact, that restatement completely erases the entire meaning of Rule One.
To be clear, here's Rule One:
All guns are always loaded.
Several people on this thread have suggested that the rule should be, instead:
All guns are always loaded ... unless you have personally verified that it is not.
The problem with this mentality is that you've just set in place the notion that there are in fact two sets of rules: one for "loaded" guns, and another for "unloaded" guns.
Loaded guns, you think, you will treat one way. You will keep them pointed in a safe direction at all times. You will keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target. You will be sure that the target you select is a good target and has a safe backstop.
But "unloaded" guns -- guns that you personally have verified -- don't have to be treated with such caution.
That's the mindset.
And that's the mindset that gets people killed.
Rule One is actually very simple, but some folks can't wrap their brains around it. The basic meaning of Rule One is very simple:
The safety rules always apply.
They apply regardless of whether you have "checked" the chamber or not. Take a look at this old thread and note how many of the incidents involved a poorly-performed chamber check: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282550
When you decide it's okay to throw out the rest of the Four Rules because you've "checked," you are literally saying that you will NEVER make a mistake when you check. That's a lie -- as Brad and countless others have discovered, human beings make mistakes.
The purpose of the Four Rules is to prevent tragedy when a human being makes a predictable and utterly understandable human mistake. Even if you think the gun is unloaded, you STILL never point it at a human being. Even if you are intending to disassemble the gun, you STILL never put your finger on the trigger until you've picked out a good place for a bullet to land (a "target," by definition!). Even if you are intending to dry fire, you STILL select a deliberate target with a solid backstop capable of stopping the most powerful round your firearm is capable of containing.
And you do all that because human beings make mistakes. Your chamber check -- no matter how carefully performed -- might have failed. The ammo fairy might have come along and loaded your gun when you blinked. Your extractor might be broken. Whatever.
As for the question:
I take my loaded gun. I unload it. I visually inspect the chamber and magazine well. I run my finger into the chamber and into the magazine well to be sure both are empty.
And then I continue to follow the remainder of the Four Rules anyway!! -- because that is how I treat an allegedly "unloaded" gun.
Specifics?
To disassemble my Glock, I empty the gun via the procedure above, check and double check.
I remove all ammunition from the room.
Check the gun again -- without pointing it at my children, my cat, or my own favorite body parts (Rule Two).
Because I must put my finger on the trigger to disassemble the gun, I choose a target -- that is, a deliberately-selected spot which is the best place in the area for a bullet to land. Just because I think the gun is unloaded is no reason to violate Rule Three. I point the firearm at a deliberately-selected target before I ever touch the trigger.
And when I select that target, I make darn good and sure that it is something I am willing to shoot, and that the area behind it will stop a bullet without creating any further damage. (Rule Four.)
By the way, a lot of people get hung up on that word, "willing." I don't want to shoot a bucket of sand in my bedroom, or destroy my expensive Safe Directions bag. I'm just willing to risk shooting these things if I make a mistake.
After the gun is disassembled, it is no longer a gun (no longer a mechanism capable of launching a bullet), and thus I may complete all the cleaning, crown inspections, rifling checks that my little heart desires.
But I damn sure don't fool myself into believing that I am the only human being on the planet capable of checking a firearm and being sure that it is indeed unloaded. Because I am human, and human beings make mistakes.
When you rely on only ONE layer of safety (unloading the gun), all it takes is ONE mistake to cause a tragedy.
pax
Mainsail
Member
I don’t know what you’re reading, but at no point do I ever say, write, or imply that the other rules do not apply once you have verified your firearm is unloaded. I spoke of rule #1, and only rule #1. Even after one has verified their gun is unloaded, they must still follow rules 2, 3, and 4. Since the rest of your argument is based on this incorrect assumption, I see no reason to go point by point with you on it.pax said:
You do, nonetheless, erroneously state rule #1. If all guns, including your Glock, are always loaded, then it would be foolish to clean them because it’s foolish to clean a loaded gun. It’s not semantics. A rule must be inviolate or it isn’t a rule at all. The mindset that gets people killed is one that allows exceptions to the rule but doesn’t state what those exceptions are. Are you familiar with the phrase, “Give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile”? If you have arbitrary and unspecified exceptions, like dry firing, cleaning, showing, gunsmithing, demonstration of the trigger pull, etc., you are demonstrating the rule (rule #1) doesn’t always apply and you’re setting the stage for an accident. I would never attempt any of those things on a loaded gun, yet those things are sometimes desirable or necessary.
rainbowbob
Member
Pax:
That is the most thorough and convincing treatise on "Why I own revolvers" that I have ever read.
You do make some good points (particularly for handling one of those dreaded Glocks)
That is correct...When I have verified - TWICE - that my revolver is unloaded, and there is no ammo in the immediate vicinity, and there is nobody around "helping" me - then I am CERTAIN it has been rendered incapable of firing. I can then inspect the crown, run a brush down the barrel and chambers, dry-fire it, etc.
It is a very simple thing to verify that a revolver is empty. While aiming it in a safe direction with my finger off the trigger I open up the cylinder, visually inspect each chamber and the barrel, and run my finger over each empty chamber. Then I close it and open it again and repeat. It is now unloaded. I am certain it is unloaded. If I so much as turn my back on it - even if I'm alone - I'll check it again.
Seriously...as a revolver owner who has never owned a bottom-feeder, I guess perhaps I don't appreciate the difficulties involved. Or perhaps that is why they are so far down on my must-have list (not that I wouldn't have one).
That is the most thorough and convincing treatise on "Why I own revolvers" that I have ever read.
You do make some good points (particularly for handling one of those dreaded Glocks)
That is correct...When I have verified - TWICE - that my revolver is unloaded, and there is no ammo in the immediate vicinity, and there is nobody around "helping" me - then I am CERTAIN it has been rendered incapable of firing. I can then inspect the crown, run a brush down the barrel and chambers, dry-fire it, etc.
It is a very simple thing to verify that a revolver is empty. While aiming it in a safe direction with my finger off the trigger I open up the cylinder, visually inspect each chamber and the barrel, and run my finger over each empty chamber. Then I close it and open it again and repeat. It is now unloaded. I am certain it is unloaded. If I so much as turn my back on it - even if I'm alone - I'll check it again.
Seriously...as a revolver owner who has never owned a bottom-feeder, I guess perhaps I don't appreciate the difficulties involved. Or perhaps that is why they are so far down on my must-have list (not that I wouldn't have one).
Mainsail ~
Let me try it again.
I disassemble my "unloaded" gun with exactly the same cautious and deliberate respect I would give it if I knew for sure the ammo fairy had crept into the room and magically loaded it.
In other words, when I disassemble my gun, I'm always disassembling a "loaded" gun -- because all guns are always loaded.
The safety rules always apply.
Telling people that they should treat the gun with the respect they'd give a loaded gun "unless you've checked that it's unloaded" just gives them permission to ignore the rest of the rules. (Even though you never have & never would explicitly say so, that's what people hear.)
This isn't theory. I bet every single one of us on this board has seen someone do something unbelievably unforgiveably stupid with a gun at one time or another. I encountered one person just last weekend who pointed a gun at their own left arm while packing up a range bag. Friend of mine. I pointed it out, and the person replied, "... but it's not loaded."
!!!!
If this does not make your blood run cold, I don't know what else to tell you. This person is an accident waiting for a place to happen, because someone, somewhere along the line, told them that "... unless you've checked" is the rest of Rule One. And having got that in their mind, they could not process the notion that an EMPTY, inert piece of steel could bite them.
Too bad.
By the way, if you cannot figure out how to safely "clean, admire, show, or dry-fire" when starting with a loaded gun, then you should not be doing any of these things with an allegedly "unloaded" one either. As you agree, the other rules always apply.
They apply no matter what you are doing with the gun, no matter why you are handling it, no matter what you expect to happen when you touch the trigger, no matter whether you are indoors or outdoors or on the range or in your own home ... No matter what: All the other rules always apply.
The other rules still apply simply because that's the mindset you must have when handling a gun: it must be treated with the cautious respect you would give it if you knew for sure it would go bang when you pulled the trigger. All guns (even the one you just checked) are always capable of dealing out death and dismemberment if you treat them casually.
That's the meaning of Rule One: The safety rules always apply. By putting an exception on it, "... unless you've checked," you give people permission to throw out the rules once they have checked.
And that means they are betting their very lives on NEVER making a single mistake when they do check.
pax
Let me try it again.
I disassemble my "unloaded" gun with exactly the same cautious and deliberate respect I would give it if I knew for sure the ammo fairy had crept into the room and magically loaded it.
In other words, when I disassemble my gun, I'm always disassembling a "loaded" gun -- because all guns are always loaded.
The safety rules always apply.
Telling people that they should treat the gun with the respect they'd give a loaded gun "unless you've checked that it's unloaded" just gives them permission to ignore the rest of the rules. (Even though you never have & never would explicitly say so, that's what people hear.)
This isn't theory. I bet every single one of us on this board has seen someone do something unbelievably unforgiveably stupid with a gun at one time or another. I encountered one person just last weekend who pointed a gun at their own left arm while packing up a range bag. Friend of mine. I pointed it out, and the person replied, "... but it's not loaded."
!!!!
If this does not make your blood run cold, I don't know what else to tell you. This person is an accident waiting for a place to happen, because someone, somewhere along the line, told them that "... unless you've checked" is the rest of Rule One. And having got that in their mind, they could not process the notion that an EMPTY, inert piece of steel could bite them.
Too bad.
By the way, if you cannot figure out how to safely "clean, admire, show, or dry-fire" when starting with a loaded gun, then you should not be doing any of these things with an allegedly "unloaded" one either. As you agree, the other rules always apply.
They apply no matter what you are doing with the gun, no matter why you are handling it, no matter what you expect to happen when you touch the trigger, no matter whether you are indoors or outdoors or on the range or in your own home ... No matter what: All the other rules always apply.
The other rules still apply simply because that's the mindset you must have when handling a gun: it must be treated with the cautious respect you would give it if you knew for sure it would go bang when you pulled the trigger. All guns (even the one you just checked) are always capable of dealing out death and dismemberment if you treat them casually.
That's the meaning of Rule One: The safety rules always apply. By putting an exception on it, "... unless you've checked," you give people permission to throw out the rules once they have checked.
And that means they are betting their very lives on NEVER making a single mistake when they do check.
pax
rainbowbob said:
LOL!Actually, though ...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=253509
Revolvers can bite, too. And revolver owners are not immune to the "but I thought it was unloaded" bug.
pax
Mainsail
Member
Pax, I think we’re closer on this than the volume of words we’ve written would suggest. For me, rule #1 is: “Treat every firearm as though it is loaded until you have verified it is not.” This allows me to recognize that there are times when a gun isn’t loaded, but certainly does not exempt me from the other rules. There is a certain rhythm to this because it layers the rules to prevent a catastrophic accident in the event I’ve failed at any point. I wouldn’t dry-fire my Sig if it were loaded, but I would (and do) when it isn’t. If for some ungodly reason I screw up and fail at rule #1, I will still be following rule #2 and the surprise discharge will end up somewhere where it does little damage and absolutely no physical injuries.
I find the simplification of the rule (rule #1) to be intellectually dishonest, since nobody ever obeys the rule (rule #1) as stated in your post. This may be due to my military training\life or my flying experience. I tend to view things as black and white, not shades of gray, for certain issues. Death is a black and white issue. The rule must be inviolate. I will not, in fact cannot, intellectually grasp a rule that “every firearm is always loaded” when I know that I and others I observe, don’t and won’t hold to the rule 100% of the time. This makes it sound like a semantics issue, but for me a rule is a rule; and a rule that is open to capricious interpretation is a lie.
There is also the issue of third person perception. I have a son (17 now) who looks up to me. My words must have meaning, again, more so with issues of life and death. It would be monumentally foolish for me to teach him that ‘all guns are always loaded’ -knowing that he’s going to observe me NOT practicing that rule (dry firing for example). If I thought he was so mentally or intellectually deficient (a nice way of saying ‘too stupid’) to understand and follow the real Rule #1 without dumbing it down to ‘all guns are always loaded’, I would not allow him to handle a firearm at any time. (I feel the same way about adults who need the rule dumbed down for them.) I properly teach him ALL the rules, and that rule #1 is to treat every firearm as though it is loaded until you have verified it is not. (I also impose additional burdens on him, like, he does not touch any firearm without me present) By this he knows that what I say and what I do are consistent. He also knows that I accept no variations on any of the rules.
I find the simplification of the rule (rule #1) to be intellectually dishonest, since nobody ever obeys the rule (rule #1) as stated in your post. This may be due to my military training\life or my flying experience. I tend to view things as black and white, not shades of gray, for certain issues. Death is a black and white issue. The rule must be inviolate. I will not, in fact cannot, intellectually grasp a rule that “every firearm is always loaded” when I know that I and others I observe, don’t and won’t hold to the rule 100% of the time. This makes it sound like a semantics issue, but for me a rule is a rule; and a rule that is open to capricious interpretation is a lie.
There is also the issue of third person perception. I have a son (17 now) who looks up to me. My words must have meaning, again, more so with issues of life and death. It would be monumentally foolish for me to teach him that ‘all guns are always loaded’ -knowing that he’s going to observe me NOT practicing that rule (dry firing for example). If I thought he was so mentally or intellectually deficient (a nice way of saying ‘too stupid’) to understand and follow the real Rule #1 without dumbing it down to ‘all guns are always loaded’, I would not allow him to handle a firearm at any time. (I feel the same way about adults who need the rule dumbed down for them.) I properly teach him ALL the rules, and that rule #1 is to treat every firearm as though it is loaded until you have verified it is not. (I also impose additional burdens on him, like, he does not touch any firearm without me present) By this he knows that what I say and what I do are consistent. He also knows that I accept no variations on any of the rules.
You've just stated that there are -- in actual practice -- TWO sets of rules. By this mode of thinking, one set of safety rules applies only to loaded guns, while another set of rules applies to "unloaded" guns.
That just seems foolish to me. Incredibly so. It implies you're willing to be the poor sucker dripping blood from a fresh wound while saying, "I know I didn't treat the gun with respect, but I thought it was unloaded!" (Or worse, it implies that you're willing to be that guy's friend and mentor who actually taught the poor sucker that "unloaded" guns can be treated with less respect than loaded ones.)
I guess what I really want to know is, what are you needing to do with your "unloaded" gun that cannot be done while giving it the cautious respect you'd give a loaded gun?
Here's what cautious respect ("treating a firearm as if it is loaded") looks like, by definition:
- Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target.
- Be sure of your target and what's beyond.
These are not so much "rules" as they are the simple and inevitable outworking of an intelligent person handling a gun with the respect they'd give a loaded weapon. They are the basic definition of what it means to treat a gun as if it is loaded.
So when you say it's okay to treat an "unloaded" gun without that same respect, I wonder why. I wonder which of these obvious and necessary corollaries you wish to violate with your "unloaded" gun, and under what conditions.
pax
rainbowbob
Member
How about looking down the barrel of an unloaded revolver with a flashlight to inspect the cleaning you just performed?
I'm certainly not willing to destroy myself - and I am absolutely certain I am in no danger of doing so.
Again...I'm only speaking of revolvers. You guys are convincing more than ever that I don't need a Glock. I still want one though. If/when I have one, I guess I'll re-assess this whole question.
rainbowbob
Member
True. This animated tutorial at "The Cornered Cat" (see link) is the best I've ever seen on how to cerify that a revolver is in fact unloaded.
http://www.corneredcat.com/RunGun/loadrevo.aspx
Well...OK...but now we really ARE slicing semantic hairs. If I asked my wife, or my 4-year-old grandson what I was holding in my hand (not that I clean my "gun" around either of them) - they would both reply..."Your gun." They would also probably both look at me funny, wondering why I would ask such an obvious question. I mean, who doesn't know a "gun" when they see one?
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