Limiting the effects of a ND

[jgooderh]

Hello All;

Here is my situation and what I think may work.

I am interested in starting to carry a full size EAA Witness 45 ACP. I'd like to carry it in condition-ish-2 in that I would have one in the chamber, but the safety on. To do this requires me to lower the hammer on a live round before putting the safety on. This Witness was made in 94-95 so the safety is not a decocker (as I've read some others are I thought).
I am not interested in carrying it in Condition 1 in that I do not have the extra safety of a grip safety like a 1911 so I do not think that is a possibility. I am not really interested in carrying in Condition 3 either.
My solution is to build a one time 'disposable' bullet trap. I have cut 12 4"X4" squares of 3/4" particle board and glued them together with liquid nails (didn't want to use screws to prevent ricochets or change the bullet's trajectory) and wrapped it with some gaffer tape (to make it less horrible looking and also to help contain wood flying everywhere).
We keep our firearms in a safe in the master bedroom walk in closet. We do not keep our firearms loaded within the safe. It would be a change of routine to start keeping loaded firearms in the safe and changing firearm handling routines is bad.
The process solution is to go into the closet, take the unloaded gun and a full magazine out of the safe, slap the magazine in, rack the slide, point the firearm at the bullet trap (axially so as to get the most out of 9" of wood). and lower the hammer. Once the hammer is lowered, safety on and then it goes into IWB, Sig jacket, whatever.
If there is an ND on my part lowering the hammer do you think that my solution is going to prevent or at least limit the damage? Do I need more wood? Is there a better solution?

Looking forward to what everyone thinks and open to suggestions.

Thanks

 

[Mello]

Carrying in condition one is safe.

Grip safeties are something that can go wrong, preventing you from firing when you need to, if you fail to properly grip the gun and fail to disengage the grip safety. I have had it happen in competition several times, so have pinned the grip safeties of my 1911s. I have never had a negligent discharge (ND) in over 40,000 rounds fired.

You must pull the trigger to discharge the weapon.

Practice the 4 safety rules and you will not have a ND.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you wouldn't destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and of what's beyond.

 

[Red Eye Fred]

In an effort to test penetration I discharged a 45acp in my house. The round was a LWC loaded very light, it would not cycle without lighter springs. The round penetrated a four inch phone book, two inches of pine and stopped at the far edge of a 2x4 edgewise. I would suggest adding some steel to your stop.

Fred

 

[GMArthur]

It sounds like you're trying to make your gun fit into a role you're not comfortable with. Instead of modifying your manual of arms into something you do not feel safe or comfortable with, instead get a gun that fits the way you'd like to carry. Trade that gun in for a grip safety modeled gun or a DAO pistol.

I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong with the gun you have. Obviously you are not fully confident in the way that you need to prepare the gun for carry. In that case get a different gun.

 

[ServiceSoon]

If you want to guarantee that you won't have a AD/ND don't put a bullet in the chamber.

 

[Superlite27]

I agree with the above posters. If you are not 100% comfortable enough with a mode of carry, you're probably better off using another mode, or getting the type of firearm that has a mode you are comfortable with.

This type of preparation seems like you're preparing for the inevitable ND.

ND's should never happen, although preparing for one is a good idea.

If you are set on carrying in "condition 2-ish" (2-ish?) like you describe and are intent on doing so, you might want to look at these:

http://www.safedirection.com/ballisticcontainment/academypad.html

(I always reccommend carrying in a manner that YOU are comfortable with, although you don't sound all that comfortable with this "2-ish".)

 

[30 cal slob]

a bullet trap is no substitute for the 4 rules.

HOWEVER, a 5 gallon bucket from home depot filled to the top with playground sand makes for a more convenient safe backstop, IMO.

 

[TX1911fan]

Sheesh, the guy wants to carry in condition 2, which, while I don't do it, is an accepted form of carry by many people. I don't like lowering the hammer on a live round, but IF you are going to do it, at least you are taking appropriate precaustions. It sounds from another poster above that you may need to add something else to your trap, and you cannot be certain that the bullet will continue to travel in a straight line, so even if you add steel to the back of the trap, you may get a round spurting out the side. Be sure there is nothing else around that could be damaged or injured from that, or line 5 sides of the trap with steel.

If you decide to reconsider your mode of carry, know that Condition 1 is safe and many, many people do it on a daily basis, with and without a grip safety.

 

[LKB3rd]

I think that lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber is riskier than what you are trying to avoid (condition 1).
I know you have said that you aren't considering condition one carrying, but what about carrying it around the house, holstering/unholstering, etc, with it unloaded and seeing how that goes. You might gain some more confidence in carrying it that way. Buy a good molded holster that protects the trigger, and excercise extra care when holstering and de-holstering/drawing.

 

[jgooderh]

Maybe I will practice Condition 1

Thanks for the input all. I will take the above advice and carry Condition 1 around for a while (empty) around the house and see how I feel.

Others advice about getting a different firearm seems like a possibility too (bring money).

I will also check out the "Safe Direction" product. Thanks for the find Superlight! The website is an interesting read, especially the "Safe Direction Saves" section.

 

[Jim Watson]

As said, a box or bucket of sand is an effective bullet trap, or one of the commercial products, I would not count on wood.

I worked a lot with a CZ75 for defense, IDPA SSP, and USPSA Production, all of which involved easing the hammer to Condition 2. I never had an AD, a slip to half cock, or even a nervous moment. Not to mention several years with a Commander in Condition 2 until I realized it had been recommended by a southpaw whose experiece predated ambi safeties.

Still and all, I would think about an auxiliary LOADED gun storage container so I did not have to frickle with loading and unloading the gun every day. My Sig-Sauer only gets unloaded and reloaded when actually shot for practice.

By the way, have you checked your ammo for bullet setback after repeated cycles in and out of the gun?

 

[nutter]

Even if the wood catches the bullet, wouldn't an ND while lowering the hammer tear up your thumb and hand?

 

[Zundfolge]

Doesn't that witness have a decocker? If not, I wonder if a decocker from a CZ75D could be fitted.


But yeah, the wood thing doesn't sound all that safe, go the 5gal bucket of sand route.

 

[wally]

No the Witness doesn't have a decocker, but it has a firing pin block so it won't fire if dropped.

I too think cocked and locked is the way to go, but if he wants DA/SA the gun will do fine with it.

The proper and safe way to decock an external hammer is to:
1) Normal gun grip with finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard

2) Lay your off hand thumb across the hammer, between the hammer and rear of the slide, release the thumb safety with the strong hand thumb or a finger of the off hand. (One nice benefit of the witness is you can cycle the slide to chamber a round with the safety on as long as you start with the hammer cocked)

3) Apply some pressure on the hammer face with the off hand thumb so the hammer can't get a running start to pinch you.

4) Pull the trigger to release the hammer, your thumb will now feel the full hammer spring force, its no big deal. Your thumb is now interfering with the hammer's fall so its safe.

5) Slowly pull your thumb up toward the rear rear sight to let the hammer follow until its down.

Do it a few times with an unloaded gun, its easier to do than to describe.

On the CZ the half cock notch is where to want to lower to, as that is what the decocker models do. You can then remove your finger from the trigger guard to re-engage the firing pin block before removing your thumb from between the hammer face and rear of the slide.

HTH,
--wally.

 

[jgooderh]

Thanks All

Well, it looks like I have some homework on a few fronts. Thanks for the input all. Jim, maybe one of those little wall safes that present the pistol to you when opened? Wally, I will try that out ASAP.

A bit of background too. I've owned the firearm since I bought it new 13 odd years ago so I am familiar with its basic operation. Only recently since getting my CPL, I've had to start thinking about carrying, how to, what's the best, etc.. Before it was always empty at home and was only loaded at the range.

I'd rather go slow and make sure of what I am doing. As we all know carrying a firearm is serious business. I have read of and spoke to a few folks in real life that do not take it seriously. No gun belt, no holster, etc.. Not for me.