I finally went and did it! My first ND

I haven't had a ND but did fire when I wasn't ready. I shot a double set trigger Sharps not to long ago for the first time. I set the first trigger and had no idea the firing trigger was that light. I went to take my firing breath and it went off.

When or if you ever shoot a double set trigger gun like a Sharps, keep that in mind. Most are set VERY light.

As the saying goes, "it's not IF it's WHEN".

So, he finally got his. Most of us will get one at some point or another whether we'll admit it or not.

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It's actually not an inevitability if you are methodical and disciplined about safety.

If you lose respect for the gun and handle it with complacency instead of focus, then yes indeed, you're likely destined for trouble down the line.

I do know it's actually meant as a caution against NDs, but statements like that are juicy propaganda for the antigun forces, and confirm their beliefs about all gun owners inevitably having their guns "just go off" and potentially killing someone.

It's actually not an inevitability if you are methodical and disciplined about safety.

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Sooner or later most everyone will have SOME kind of unintentional firing.

It may just be at the range while running through a magazine and there's a bump fire that wasn't intended.

Certainly we should all strive against it but it's likely to happen.

That's why there are 4 rules, in case one slips by. Nothing and no one is perfect, hence the 4 rules.

That's why I say a lot of people won't admit it, either to themselves or anyone else that it was an ND.

But sure, if you lose respect for the gun you are headed down a bad path, you are sure right about that.

...That's why there are 4 rules, in case one slips by.

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I'll second that!

Why did you pull the trigger?

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...I pulled the trigger to drop the hammer...

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O.K. Why did you feel you needed to drop the hammer?

I can't think of any reason why you needed to do this.

I would suggest that you should never drop the hammer on anything but an empty chamber or a snap cap. That approach would have prevented your ND. And yes it was a ND, because you pulled the trigger and weren't sure of the chamber condition. Knowing and thinking you know are two different things. You can only know something when you observe evididence that proves it is so. That evidence was likely available to you, but went unobserved for lack of care.

Put safety on and clear chamber to observe cartridge, would have been a better approach.

lesson learned....

resist the urge to pull the trigger when you don't have you sights on a valid target.

Sooner or later most everyone will have SOME kind of unintentional firing.

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In my opinion, this is a lame excuse, used to justify past negligence or a lacksadasical attitude towards future conduct.

I refuse to accept it! and thus I'm not going to have a ND.

Posted by TexasRifleman:
Sooner or later most everyone will have SOME kind of unintentional firing. It may just be at the range while running through a magazine and there's a bump fire that wasn't intended. Certainly we should all strive against it but it's likely to happen. That's why there are 4 rules, in case one slips by. Nothing and no one is perfect, hence the 4 rules. That's why I say a lot of people won't admit it, either to themselves or anyone else that it was an ND.

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Got any documented studies by prominent pro-gun authorities to back up your claims, TR?

I've been shooting over 40 years and I've never had a ND, not even so much as a single unintended "bump fire". I know quite a few other people at my range who've never had a ND.

You're engaging in a form of "projection", which is a psychological defense mechanism. It can take various forms, but in your case it's intended to assuage your own feelings of anxiety and guilt for having perpetrated a major gun ownership "no-no"---having a negligent discharge.

The rationalization goes something like this---"Well, I'm pretty good with guns, so if I had a ND, that means virtually everyone else has had one too, or will eventually. You can bet anybody who says they haven't is in denial or lying."

However, there are tens of millions of gun owners in this country. You can't possibly know the shooting histories of all of them, so you are making a thus far undocumented and unfounded assumption.

Please do not interpret my words as a personal attack on yourself. I am simply calling BS on your claims, until you can provide verifiable documentation from expert pro-gun sources, to bolster them.

I have only been at the receiving end of a ND.

Not to pile on you here ScottSG, I hope that qualifies me in the "when catagory... Stay safe. Cuz getting shot even with a small caliber round,,, sucked big time.

In my opinion, this is a lame excuse, used to justify past negligence or a lacksadasical attitude towards future conduct.

I refuse to accept it! and thus I'm not going to have a ND.

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Accidents happen.... There's a reason they put erasers on pencils, and that because people make mistakes. We aren't perfect like you oh mighty SSNvet.

I've had a double with my one of my ARs which was purely unintentional. Freak combination of just the right trigger pressure and position with just the right soft hold on the rifle.

Be glad it was a 22 mouse toot load...I once had a ND with a 12 gauge loaded with turkey loads....through the ceiling.

I was about 12 or 13 at the time (35 now), I still don't know what pulled the trigger.... I was on my way out, going hunting, with a few things in my hands (turkey call, can of Skoal, etc.)....a 12 gauge is REALLY load at 4:00 AM.

My Grandad said...did ya get him??? He thought somebody had broke in the house...but he was rather mad after I told him what happened...well, no...mad is not the right word...upset yes, but more disappointed, because he most certainly had taught me better.

Got any documented studies by prominent pro-gun authorities to back up your claims, TR?

I've been shooting over 40 years and I've never had a ND, not even so much as a single unintended "bump fire". I know quite a few other people at my range who've never had a ND.

You're engaging in a form of "projection", which is a psychological defense mechanism. It can take various forms, but in your case it's intended to assuage your own feelings of anxiety and guilt for having perpetrated a major gun ownership "no-no"---having a negligent discharge.

The rationalization goes something like this---"Well, I'm pretty good with guns, so if I had a ND, that means virtually everyone else has had one too, or will eventually. You can bet anybody who says they haven't is in denial or lying."

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LOL. It's funny the defensiveness some folks have about this.

I have never had any kind of ND and no, I'm not "afraid" that I will.

However, things happen. 747's crash, hotel balconies fall in, and to have the arrogance that some of you do, that it will NEVER happen to you, is exactly when it WILL.

If you have a realistic view that it's ENTIRELY possible to have an ND every time you pick up the firearm it keeps it in your thoughts and you pay attention to it.

Those of you saying "Ive been shooting XX years and it hasn't happened and it never will" are setting yourselves up for a dangerous surprise with that arrogance.

And of course it's people like SSNvet who, if they ever DO have an ND, will not admit it either to themselves or to others. It will be the guns fault, the ammos fault, the dogs fault, because they could NEVER make a mistake and they operate under the assumption that their practices are flawless and cannot be improved.

That's just goofy.

You can bet anybody who says they haven't is in denial or lying."

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No, but anyone who says it CANT happen to them is a moron.

if they ever DO have an ND, will not admit it either to themselves or to others. It will be the guns fault, the ammos fault, the dogs fault, because they could NEVER make a mistake and they operate under the assumption that their practices are flawless and cannot be improved.

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Ummm, well, I have some experience with an AD being the gun's fault, just this February so I can see how sometimes it is the gun's fault.

ScottsGT, so, have you bought a 55 gallon barrel and a bunch of sand yet?

Whew, it happend to me once and scared the crap out of me. I had an non-intended discarge that put a hole in two walls, an stove hood, and the ceiling. I am just glad I was pointing the barrel at God.

Ummm, well, I have some experience with an AD being the gun's fault, just this February so I can see how sometimes it is the gun's fault.

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Sure, that happens too, things mechanical break.

And of course you were following the 4 rules so that when you DID have a faulty firearm no one was hurt.

That's the point, you can never assume that your handling practices are so flawless that it CAN'T happen to you.

Working under the assumption that it's waiting around every corner to bite you is hardly a bad thing.

I just don't understand why people pull the trigger, even on an "unloaded" gun. I'm not trying to harp on the OP.

I was taught to treat all guns as if they are always loaded with the saftey off, even when I KNEW they were unloaded.

If I ever have a ND, it's NOT going to be from me pulling the trigger. It's like OCD, sometimes I chamber check 5-6 times (especially in semi-autos) before I even dissasemble just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Even then, I don't pull the trigger.

And of course you were following the 4 rules so that when you DID have a faulty firearm no one was hurt.

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No one was hurt, but the AD sent a chunk of a Shootrite barricade down range.

My dad recently shot a tire on his jeep trying to get a squirrel. I think beer was involved.

I remember him lecturing me on the the 4 rules...haha

I just don't understand why people pull the trigger, even on an "unloaded" gun.

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Well if you ever own a 1911 or a Glock you're going to have hell......
1911s have no other method of de-cocking and you have to pull the trigger on Glocks to take them apart.

That's why I keep saying these OCD feelings, these procedures we all have down by rote, that sort of thing, they are not enough.

There are times you HAVE to pull the trigger on an unloaded gun, what then?

Then you follow the 4 rules, breaking one to pull the trigger, trusting the other 3 to keep you from hurting something if you've made a terrible mistake.

I'm glad you were following most of the rules and came out none the worse for wear. Lesson learned.

Although I had an ND with an airgun when I was around 14 years old, I cannot say that I agree with this:

As everyone always says, "Not if, but when"

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I think there are going to be a small but statistically-significant minority of folks who go from cradle to grave without an ND, and shoot guns their entire lives.

I was taught to treat all guns as if they are always loaded with the saftey off, even when I KNEW they were unloaded.

If I ever have a ND, it's NOT going to be from me pulling the trigger. It's like OCD, sometimes I chamber check 5-6 times (especially in semi-autos) before I even dissasemble just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Even then, I don't pull the trigger.

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That's interesting to me, that you never dry fire. I dry fire all the time, but I'm pretty darned anal about checking the chamber 2 or 3 times first. I even dry fire with a loaded mag, inserted into the gun, but just check and triple check that I don't pull the bolt all the way back, such that it picks up a round. I insert pinky finger into chamber, then watch to make sure no round is being pushed forward (this is with a manual repeater - turnbolt). Dry firing at the house is technically a violation of the 4 rules. Unless you're dry firing at some sandbags stacked up in your house. But I do it without sandbags. I find dry firing enjoyable and safe (so far).

Texas - I wasn't talking about those kind of instances. I was more referring to randomly pulling the trigger. If I pull the trigger it's because I want the gun to go "bang."

I've never had a problem with clearing a 1911. Drop mag, rack slide a few times while pointed safely and finger away from trigger, visually inspect chamber and place finger to feel just in case. Then if I go through all of that and I am still unsure if it is truely safe to drop the hammer, then I repeat. I doubt I'll ever own a Glock though.

I regularly swap out my JHP carry ammo in my CZ82 with a mag of Wolf when I go to the range and have only pulled the trigger once I'm at the range. Swapping mags is just as easy: point in safe direction, drop mag, thumb safety off, rack slide to clear chambered round, verify that gun is clear, verify again, insert fresh mag, chamber a round, thumb safety on, drop mag, top off mag, reinsert mag, GTG

Premium - I rarely dry fire, and that's only when reassembling and not always something I do.

At least you were pointing at the ground. A friend of mine who shall remain nameless had a ND with an "empty" 9mm dry firing it at a closet in a cabin. Just so happened that that part of the closet carried a dozen small propane containers. The explosion knocked out the lights and knocked her down. The door flew off its hinges. But thankfully there wasn't enough propane in the air to actually ignite and only two bottles detonated.

THAT will get your attention pretty quick!

But I do it without sandbags. I find dry firing enjoyable and safe (so far).

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Emphasis added. That's the one that ended up biting me in the back end. I don't dry fire anymore except to check mechanical function and only after checking the chamber(s) visually and with my fingers. I didn't hit propane tanks or anything else except a wall, but it wasn't a safe wall to be shooting at. If you must do it, treat your dry firing as the real thing and do it against an earth-backed wall in a basement.

I bought a used outdated vest for "pointing at" when decocking. I use the thumb roll to decock.

I believe one of our members, Correia (sp?), sells outdated vests for this purpose, but I'm not sure.

I used to keep a 5 gallon bucket of sand in the shop, also, for this purpose.

I guess if you can't stop the bullet, you can at least slow it down before it sails off to make trouble.