Had my first (and hopefully ONLY) ND yesterday

[Phyphor]

It was shortly after work, me and a friend were out shooting our guns, and he was firing off my 870. Well, he'd loaded it up, but got a phone call on his cell, his old lady, I guess, whom ordered him home at once. Well, he handed me the gun, and I assumed he'd only put 4 rounds in it (yes, I know what ASSUMEing does... ).... I thought he'd chambered a round out of the mag, so I ejected 4. Keep in mind, it gets dark at about 5pm here, so it's hard to see, so I just visually inspected the chamber / carrier area.... I failed to notice the last round. Well, normally, when I'm done shooting, I'll point the weapon outward and pull the trigger to let the hammer down. What a surprise, that bitch jumped in my hands and I damned near pissed myself. Fortunately, it was aimed at the berm behind the targets we were shooting at, but still....


You know, I think it's true that nobody thinks they'll actually have a AD/ND...... Well, I used to think that. Got edumacated with a quickness.

Lessons learned: Don't trust your sight, PUT YOUR DAMNED FINGERS IN THERE AND MAKE SURE there isn't a live round in there.

Never assume you've sucessfully unloaded it. Crap happens.

Ok. I'm done. Let the flaming commence. :banghead:

 

[71Commander]

Lesson learned. Nothing else to say.

 

[Rupestris]

Whats that they say about ND's? There are those that have had 'em...

You were smart enough to point it down range.

 

[MechAg94]

You had it pointed in a safe direction, knew your target, and treated it like a loaded gun even though you thought it wasn't loaded. Sounds like the safety rules worked fine to me. I certainly wouldn't call it "Negligent" discharge. You got the most important rules right. You even verified it wasn't loaded though maybe you didn't intend to.

 

[bg]

I think you did good too. Made sure it was pointed in a safe direction
etc...Now if that had been Diane Feinstein or Chuckie Schumer, there's
every chance they'd of looked down the barrel while slaming the stock's
butt against the ground to make sure it wasn't loaded.

 

[Ryder]

I wouldn't call it negligent either. Dry firing the gun at the range after unloading it to ensure it is safe isn't a bad thing. In fact you just found out why it's probably a good thing. Why on earth would you think the other guy only patially loaded the gun though? There's no rule that says you have to load a gun one shot short. Maybe he really did chamber a round but topped it off afterwards? I would have.

 

[Lupinus]

good lesson learned

But truthfully I woulda loved to have been there to see how high you jumped when that hting went off

 

[GRB]

I certainly wouldn't call it "Negligent" discharge. You got the most important rules right. You even verified it wasn't loaded though maybe you didn't intend to.

Well I guess we all have differing opinion, I would call it a negligent discharge. Just because it was pointed in a safe direction does not mean that the actual act of discharging the fireram was not negligent. He did not inspect the chamber properly and therefore when he pulled the trigger there was a discharge that was negligent - he did not, as you say - verify that it was not loaded - how could he have done so if it to have actually fired when he squeezed the trigger! This is not just semantics either, this is hard fact. In addition I have to wonder in how safe a direction it was pointed if it was already dark, as was implied in the original post.

Please understand, I am not belittling the original poster Phyphor. He or she learned a lesson and admitted what he did wrong. He has learned from it and that is great. On the other hand, to say - well you got most of it right so it is ok - is not acceptable as far as gun safety goes. One day someone may get everything right except pointing the gun in a safe direction, resulting in the injury or death of an innocent person. Would you look at that shooting and say, well you got everything else right so don't worry about it. Of course you would not and; just because no one was hurt is no reason to slack off on gun safety in this incident. Everyone who handles a firearm has to realize that gun safety is a 100 percent thing, 100 percent of the time. Sure you can be negligent or even have a real accident while handling a firearm but if you make sure to do it all right, all of the time, this is much less likely to ever happen. Please don't slouch on gun safety, don't settle for getting it partly right, it could wind up in someone being killed and that someone could be yourself or a loved one. If you don't do it 100% is is not SAFE.

My hat goes off the Phyphor for sharing this situation with us and for his realizing that gun safety is an all or nothing kind of thing.

Al the best,
Glenn B

 

[JMusic]

I have to agree with Glenn. First let me say that I too have committed this crime. Yep a hole in my mothers house from my first pellet rifle. I was stunned!!! One thing I might add is I try to keep the action open when in storage or transporting. In low light that may be the best way to assure a accidental discharge. Visually inspect when you get home. Good posting. What a rush hey?
Jim

 

[rocky]

several points here to learn from. Handing aloaded gun to someone else, clearing the mag/chamber, answering the phone when the wife calls. Atleast no one got hurt.

 

[Alex45ACP]

That wasn't an ND, you had it pointed downrange.

 

[Alex45ACP]

several points here to learn from. Handing aloaded gun to someone else, clearing the mag/chamber, answering the phone when the wife calls. Atleast no one got hurt.

lol

 

[GRB]

That wasn't an ND, you had it pointed downrange.

The logic behind this statement eludes me, please explain. If you shoot the gun, when you did not intend to shoot it, but instead simply intended to drop the hammer on an empty chamber, and it fired because you failed to correctly check to see if it was loaded - then in my estimation that was negilgent no matter which direction it weas pointed. The negligence comes about because the firearm was not properly checked to see if it was unloaded, then squeezing the trigger assuming it was unloaded. The negligence is in the discharge of the weapon in the first place, not in the direction toward which it was discharged. If it had been pointed in an unsafe direction that would have added to the negligence. Just because it was pointed in a safe direction does not make the actual fact of not clearing it properly then shooting it when you did not plan to shoot it any less negligent an act. I can only imagine you say it is not negligent because no one would have been injured by having it popinted downrange. I wonder, did the fellow who just answered the telephone still have on his hearing protection when the round went off? Did the shooter have his on?

best regards,
GB

 

[AFhack]

I think the point of it not being negligent is that the shooter had it pointed downrange and in a direction that ensured no one would be in danger in case all other mechanical and mental safeties had failed.... conceptually very similar to the "clearing barrel" outside a lot of military armories.


The original poster may not have met every single one of the primary gun laws but he at least caught one and kept anyone from getting shot... hence,
not "negligent" but certainly an illustration why all the rules keep getting repeated.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Bet you won't do that again.

 

[jtward01]

This may have been an unintentional discharge, or an accidental discharge, but I feel that since he attempted to clear the gun, and even though he believed it to be empty still kept it pointed in a safe direction, it does not reach the level of negligence.

The standard defense in court against negligence is whether a person acted in a manner similar to what most other persons with similar experience and/or training would act. In this case it seems that Phyphor did everything the rest of us would have done, he just made a simple error in not seeing the shell. I don't believe his actions constitute negligence.

 

[Cosmoline]

No ND. That's EXACTLY why it's SOP to make your last shot of the day a dry fire on a hot range with the firearm pointed down range. Provided nobody was down range I don't see any serious problem other than getting a surprise. It's like losing your grip on a clif and having the life line catch you. If you did everything properly there's no harm done.

 

[Mal H]

I agree with those that say "you done good." It's hard to call that a negligent discharge, more like a surprising discharge. You didn't show negligence in your handling of the gun. It could be argued that you didn't absolutely know that the gun was unloaded. Even so, you treated it as if it was loaded when you pulled the trigger.

Very valuable lesson learned - at no cost to walls, TVs, other people, etc.

 

[Phyphor]

good lesson learned

But truthfully I woulda loved to have been there to see how high you jumped when that hting went off

I'll tell ya, my skin is extra-stretched after that, and my vocal cords are extra stretched after the cussing binge they've been through!

 

[Phyphor]

I agree with those that say "you done good." It's hard to call that a negligent discharge, more like a surprising discharge. You didn't show negligence in your handling of the gun. It could be argued that you didn't absolutely know that the gun was unloaded. Even so, you treated it as if it was loaded when you pulled the trigger.

Very valuable lesson learned - at no cost to walls, TVs, other people, etc.

Yea, nobody got hurt, but I still made a mistake with a gun. Won't happen again.

 

[Alex45ACP]

The logic behind this statement eludes me, please explain. If you shoot the gun, when you did not intend to shoot it, but instead simply intended to drop the hammer on an empty chamber, and it fired because you failed to correctly check to see if it was loaded - then in my estimation that was negilgent no matter which direction it weas pointed. The negligence comes about because the firearm was not properly checked to see if it was unloaded, then squeezing the trigger assuming it was unloaded. The negligence is in the discharge of the weapon in the first place, not in the direction toward which it was discharged. If it had been pointed in an unsafe direction that would have added to the negligence. Just because it was pointed in a safe direction does not make the actual fact of not clearing it properly then shooting it when you did not plan to shoot it any less negligent an act. I can only imagine you say it is not negligent because no one would have been injured by having it popinted downrange. I wonder, did the fellow who just answered the telephone still have on his hearing protection when the round went off? Did the shooter have his on?

best regards,
GB

I don't think it was negligent at all. He did it in a safe direction, etc. I do this when I'm done shooting at the range too to make sure my gun is unloaded before I leave.

 

[rero360]

I had a similar experience myself back in the spring, I guess, I knew the weapon was loaded, I just discharged it before I intended to, I was down at Fort Indian Town Gap and we were shooting practice AT4s, basicaly its an AT4 tube that shoots 9mm tracers, no big boom so its a bit dissapointing, anyways the range NCO loaded me up and before I shouldered it I depressed the safety and rested my other finger on the trigger, well it was a llight trigger, about 2 pounds at the most, and it went off as I was bringing it up to bear. didn't hurt anyhing but my pride, the round went off into the woods below the targets. the Range NCO was cool about it though.

 

[jamz]

Phyphor, thank you for sharing this info. I really like it that people are brave enough to post their ND events here- it educates the rest of us, and serves as a constant reminder.

-James

 

[svtruth]

Thank goodness

you did that. Otherwise you would have brought a cocked, loaded shotgun home.
Perhaps ID, inadvertent discharge, or DD, diligent discharge.
Good luck.

 

[TimH]

Another good lesson.....leave cell phone off when at the range so wifey can't call & interupt your fun