Rifles in .45 Colt

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Kleanbore

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In the 19th and early twentieth centuries, Winchester and Marlin lever-action carbines and Colt slide-action long arms were made in .44-40, .38-40, .32-20, etc., as were many Colt, Remington, and Smith & Wesson revolvers.

Several of those revolvers were also made for .44 American and Russian and for .45 Colt and Schofield cartridges. However, to my knowledge, no rifles or carbines were cambered for those cartridges. Now, however, several replica lever and slide action rifles and carbines are chambered for .45 Colt.

My question is, why not then, if now? Does it have to do with the .45 head design of the old days? Or was it simply the choice of the rifle makers?
 
I think .45 Colt was a proprietary cartridge back then and Colt didn't make rifles. Also, it has a tiny rim that makes extraction less than reliable in anything but a single-action revolver.

(I really like the cartridge, and a '92 Puma in .45 Colt/.454 is on my wishlist)
 
There are several different reasons i have read over the years. One is that the rim on the balloon head cases were too small for reliable extraction of the case.

Another reason that i read is that Colt did not allow anyone to chamber guns for their 45 caliber round.

I don't know if those are totally correct but they make sense.
 
The current .45 Colt cases usually have an undercut rim, much like a semi-rimmed case, providing something for the extractor to grab.

Probably more important was the fact that the mentioned cartridges were tapered to one degree or another. They feed well when presented to the chamber at a slight angle. The .45 Colt is straight walled. About the only thing that loads the chamber straight is the '73 Winchester and antecedents. The rest usually have to feed it at an angle. That typically requires an oversize chamber to accommodate the feeding case. That can cause problems. Marlin seems to do ok, but if the load is too light, you can get blow-by due to the oversized chamber and the case not obdurating sufficiently to seal the chamber.
 
Blowby isn't a problem with blackpowder. Very many rifles were chambered fpr straight wall cases, like .45-70 and .45-90.
And Colt did start making lever action rifles but stopped when they reached an agreement with Winchester that if Colt wouldn't make rifles, Winchester wouldn't produce their 'new' revolver.
 
Black powder in the 1870s was "dirtier" than todays modern BP. The bottleneck 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20 had a thin mouth so it would expand in the chamber and prevent "blowby" into the action, making it possible for rifles of the day to shoot many rounds before cleaning was needed. This is true today with Cowboy Action shooting (CAS); real afficianados shoot 44-40 and 38-40.

The straight wall 45Colt was only used in the 73 Colt revolver which was easier to strip and clean. The relatively "sloppy" tolerance of old Colts allowed them to function when very dirty. Contemporary M&Hs and S&Ws were better but their tighter tolerances meant they would foul quickly in action.

45 Colt (what we call Long Colt) will "blowby" in lighter rounds needed for CAS, except when "warthog" BP loads are used. BP must fill the case and be compressed by the bullet to avoid overpressure.

My Marlin 94 Cowboy will "spit" (blowby) into my eyes if the loads are too light. But the again it will handle the hottest 45LC load.

streakr
 
QOUTE "Kleanbore:My question is, why not then, if now? Does it have to do with the .45 head design of the old days? Or was it simply the choice of the rifle makers?

It was the balloon head cases, folded brass with a seam making a very narrow rim. The rim was to small and weak to catch the extractor. Since the demise of ballon head cases with solid head brass cases, that is no longer a problem. Solid head cases can hold pressure upwards of 15,000 PSI on their own.
On the black powder, don't underestimate the old producers of black powder. It was state of the art and there was high grade stuff as well as cheaper economy grades.
 
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Thanks to everyone. I had forgotten that the original Remington SA revolvers were not offered in .45 Colt, and it does make sense that the Winchester '73 and '92 rifles and carbines would be limited to WCF rounds, but the fact that the Colt Lightning rifles were not offered in .45 Colt would indicates to me that the reasons for "not then" probably extended beyond the proprietary nature of the round.

Based on the replies, the head and rim design of .45 at the time seems to be a compelling reason. Also, the bottleneck case design of the WCF rounds...

What brought the question up in my mind was seeing the Marlin Cowboy 1894 and the Lightning replicas advertised in .45. Seemed strange to me, particularly since that chambering was not traditional for either arm.

Regarding "why now," the change to a different rim for the .45 Colt answers the question of why it is now possible to chamber those rifles in .45, and maybe the overwhelming popularity for the .45 in revolvers as compared to the WCF rounds today makes the .45 a more marketable choice for those wanting a single caliber for both revolver and carbine. That doesn't make the marking on the barrel look right to me, however.

Thanks again for your replies.
 
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