School shooting in Finland

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shung

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
1,682
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
I am affraid that for the 2n time in one year, this will affect the finish laws about firearms... Which are with Switzerland laws, the better in europe at the moment..
 
There are videos on YouTube of a 22year old in the same town (Kauhajoki) shooting a Walther P22 target at a range. The commenters there have identified him as the shooter. You find it by searching 'Kauhajoki gun' on YouTube

As for the Finnish gun laws, I googled them, and they seem to be about the same as in the rest of Scandinavia? Doesn't seem at all as Switzerlands laws, but I might have read it wrong.
The reason so many people in Finland have guns is because so many of them hunt, and own hunting rifles.

UPDATE:
The videos have now been removed from YouTube. Basically all they showed was a guy walking up in front of a camera and shooting his pistol, nothing more than that, no "gangsta style" or crazy talk. I did take a screen cap of his profile, as well as a screen cap of what was claimed to be his gf/cameraman, who seems to have a fettish for serial killers.

UPDATE 2:
Just found another video that wasn't in the guys profile when I first looked. This shows the guy looking down into the camera and saying "you will die next!" before he starts firing towards/under the camera. YouTube is removing them as they are uploaded by users, but I saved a screenshot.
 
Last edited:
They are still good compared to here. In Finland, "Hobby shooting" (I take this to mean "plinking") is a valid reason to get a license. Not so here. Also, no silly restrictions on how a bloody hunting rifle/shotgun can look like. If you want to buy an FAL to hunt with, or a Saiga 12, that's just fine. Fairly good laws compared to many other places in Europe as well, like the UK for example.
 
From Yahoo...

"34 minutes ago

Finland's interior minister says a man who killed nine people in a school shooting was questioned by police a day before the massacre but released.

Anne Holmlund says the gunman was detained for questioning on Monday about YouTube postings in which he is seen firing a handgun. She says police released him because they had no legal reason to keep him detained.

She says the man used a 22-millimeter caliber handgun in Tuesday's attack in Kauhajoki, 180 miles (300 kilometers) northwest of Helsinki. Holmlund says he got the license for the gun in August."


22 millimeters equals .86+ inches. Call it .87. :)
 
22 mm handgun--WOW! (Perhaps .22 LR...)

My condolences to the victims, their families, to Finlanders, and to all gun owners.

It seems that when someone drives drunk and kills someone, it doesn't "spash-over" and get read as a mark against all car owners. But we know that (either by itself or driven by media with an agenda) this latest school shooting affects us all, and will be mentioned someday even in the US Congress.

Prayers.
 
Pretty restricitive laws regarding weapons

One of the national symbols of finland is their Puukko.
Most populated areas forbid them to be carried on the belt unless you can prove some kind of neccessity for your work. Despite the fact that Puukko is nothing more than a knife used for utility purposes.
Can't speak as to how their gun laws are set up.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/sep/23/finland.school.shooting.causes
The suspect in the fatal shooting at a vocational school in Kauhajoki, Finland is pictured in this frame grab made from footage posted on the YouTube website. Photograph: Reuters

As Finland reacted in horror to the shooting by a student at a vocational college in Kauhajoki, now known to have claimed eleven lives, teachers and officials were asking what more could have been done, despite a flurry of initiatives following a shooting less than a year before at Jokela High School which killed eight.

Officials had described Finland's first major school shooting at Jokela high school last November as an isolated incident.

Nonetheless, the government reacted swiftly, putting special student welfare teams into schools and colleges, including at Kauhajoki's college for home and institutional economics - the location of the latest shooting.

"We already had the experience (of Jokela) and this time the help was available immediately," said Anita Lehikoinen, director of higher education at the Finnish ministry of education. "There were major efforts made to support schools and the school community and to help young people to feel safe in schools. We also sent a letter to all the rectors of polytechnics and colleges to update their safety regulations and to pay special attention to student welfare."

She insisted the college where the shooting took place was not to blame.

"The institution had taken all the action. They had a multi-professional team of psychologists, social workers in the community, and also a pastor. But still we saw this kind of tragedy take place," Lehikoinen said.

The government today announced extra financial help for the region, to help train youth workers, community workers and even parish priests to reach out to young people.

Although Matti Saari, 22, a student at the college, was a young adult, Lehikoinen said even in higher education there was a close relationship between students and staff, "particularly at this institution, which is a very small one".

"There is always the question of whether there enough [welfare] services are available. But at this institution we think this was not a problem.

"With multi-professional teams in place we think the help could have been there," Lehikoinen said.

However, as a vocational student, about a third of Saari's time was spent in the workplace. A recent European Union study said workplace bullying was more common in Finland than in any other EU country with Finns twice as likely to report harassment than workers in other European countries.

Bullying was also an issue in the case of Pekka-Eric Auvinen, who carried out the Jokela shooting.

Meanwhile interior minister Anne Holmlund said the perpetrator was questioned by police the day before the shooting, regarding videos posted in recent weeks on YouTube showing him firing a pistol, but no further steps were thought to be necessary.

Holmlund said she would step up efforts to draft amendments in the country's firearms law. "It goes without saying that one must analyse carefully what has happened and what sorts of changes may serve to prevent these kinds of situations from happening," Holmlund said.

Teachers and officials were searching for clues of a systemic problem in society as education minister Sari Sarkomaa, interior minister Holmlund, and minister of health and social services Paula Risikko met in emergency session to discuss the Kauhajoki shooting.

Lehikoinen said the government would be looking at wider issues in society such as greater individualism, and would look to fostering a spirit of community in schools and colleges.

"There is now a major emphasis in community-building in schools," she said.

After the Jokela incident, cuts in funding for psychological services and social support in recent years were criticised. The shooting had been a wake-up call, and local level collaboration between support services had already increased since then, teachers in Finland said.

"Jokela made teachers more sensitive to student problems. In a very general way it made teachers more alert," said Jarkko Hautamäki, professor of special education at the University of Helsinki.

At first glance, the two incidents do not seem similar. "The present shooter is a young adult, and so we cannot say the teachers are responsible," Hautamäki said.

"These are random encounters that cannot be prevented by any specific policy. They are difficult to anticipate and to be able to monitor in any way."

But media reports have stressed the rising use of the internet among young people and its pernicious influence. Jorma Lempinen, of the Finnish Association of School Principals, said: "There is a great deal of discussion. Parents say our children are not out on the streets, they are not doing drugs or alcohol, they are at home and we believed they were secure. It is now the opposite, and young people are now unsafe even at home because of the internet?"

Few answers were immediately evident as Finland was digesting the enormity of the latest shooting.

"Both the incident in Jokela and the present incident are very surprising to us. It is very difficult to understand why young people should feel so miserable as to do such desperate acts," Hautamäki said.

"We have precise and very good plans of what to do in an emergency since the Jokela incident. But these only tackle what is happening afterwards. Teachers are discussing and wondering how do we tackle the problems before they occur," Lempinen said.

They've come to the conclusion that all school shootings can't be prevented by psychological means. :rolleyes:
 
Ten people died, not including the coward who decided not to take the responsibility after all, as he kicked the bucket too. And now their prime minister wants to review the issue of having handguns in civilian hands. :barf: it starts to look very much like a long-term anti-gun campaign.

Anyway, the killer also used Molotov cocktails, so by the newspaper some of the bodies are hard to identify as they are burned too extensively (not sure whether he lit up living people or corpses). Why not ban glass bottles and gasoline?

Where are the car buying licenses? :rolleyes:

It is interesting, though, that within a relatively short time span two Finns have flipped the lid, as they are very phlegmatic people (no offense :) )
 
Last edited:
Continuing the thought from Halo: yeah, when there's a will then there's a way.

Criminals will do whatever the laws forbid them doing and I'm pretty sure that they don't care a bit. Banning guns won't make the streets safe, so why not go an extra mile and ban living at all?
 
There will always be an idiot who will come unhinged for some unknown reason, and commit an atrocity upon some population (be they students, postal workers, etc.) with the weapon that is available. If there are no guns, then a knife. No knife, then a bomb, and so forth. The only way to prohibit these crimes is to isolate each person from all contact with others, and as the human race is social in nature, this is ludicrous. If anyone (and I know I'm preaching to the choir) can present data to reinforce the notion that banning any type of weapon can make us safer, then please present them!
 
One thing to remember is that this guy was 22 years old, and no criminal record. He joined a gun club, practised and trained there, waited and got his license for a .22, and bought the gun legally, to have for plinking and competing.

The people that might argue that the Finnish gunlaws are too lax should know that even the Swedish gunlaws, that are really strict, would not have stopped this guy from getting the gun the exact same way.

And even if the had, he could just as easy, and just a legal, have gotten a hunters licens and bought a shotgun or a rifle instead.

And if he couldn't have gotten a gun, he could have done what another Finn did a few years ago, build a bomb and use it to blow up people in a mall.
 
Last edited:
Once again, the media "reinforces" this kind of behavior by giving out this guy's name, talking about his opinions, and showing his pictures/videos. The media needs to STOP doing this!! All it does is assure the next wacko who is thinking about doing this that he, too, will be famous (although in death and only for a very short time).

The media should make it a point to not show photos of these types of criminals and not mention their name. Talk about the incident?? Sure. But don't publicize these guys and give them the "immortality" (fame) they were hoping for.
 
Shung said:
I am affraid that for the 2n time in one year, this will affect the finish laws about firearms... Which are with Switzerland laws, the better in europe at the moment..

Please explain, or at least write so I can understand the sentences, thanks.
 
Please explain, or write so I can understand the sentences, thanks.

hes saying that this event will impact Finnish gun laws, which are at the time rather pro gun like Switzerland
 
Shame

I read that it took police ten minutes to get to the school, of course that is 9 minutes and 58 seconds too late. I am assuming it is impossible or near impossible for someone to legally carry a handgun in Finland, like most of Europe.

I don't think it's easy to own a gun when I have to pay a chunk of change to join a gun club and prove my worthiness to the police. Seems like Finland has fairly strict gun laws, which are what all the bed wetters here in the USA want. Obvious that even those strict laws did not stop this guy, they only kept people from defending themselves. I'm sure it is also illegal to make homemade bombs in Finland, I guess the nut forgot about that law.
 
And that's just the thing, focusing on the implement rather than actor will only guarantee that law-abiding people pay the price and the criminals continue to be, well, criminals. As we all know, the motivation of a deranged person is not restrained by law nor a lack of one particular tool. Strapping two glass bottles together, one with chlorine bleach and the other with ammonia would yield a crude gas bomb. Just wait till some nut uses something like that, then you'll have to show ID every time you clean your laundry.

I think what I hate most, other than the fact that a nutjob wasn't satisfied with taking only his own life, is how the media reliably whip the public into a frenzy demanding that the government "do something!" Has any abridgment of liberty in history not been preceded by such?
 
Finland's prime minister has called for gun laws to be tightened after a school shooting that left 11 people dead.

Matti Vanhanen said he believed handguns should no longer be used outside shooting ranges.

Of course the BBC has jumped all over this. They mention the legal age to purchase a firearm in Finland is 15.
Yemen is listed #2 in gun ownership behind the US.

NCsmitty
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top