Major Changes in European Gun Laws

[IdahoSkies]

Having lived in Europe (Switzerland), and then seeing that the EU is going to require medical screening for gun purchases, I am incredibly grateful for the United State's 2nd Amendment.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/21/news/firearms-rules-europe/index.html

This story also makes me weep for our fellows across the pond and what they are going to have to put up with. It also is a reminder of what happens when one group makes laws for everyone. As the story indicate's Finland's concerns were not addressed, nor where the eastern European countries concerns. Instead France and Germany made law that overwhelmed the entire continent.

 

[AlexanderA]

They can legislate, but that won't change the reality on the ground. There's a thriving black market in illegal weapons, much more so than in the U.S. Consider that there are millions of weapons left over from WW2, and millions more from the breakup of the Soviet Bloc. A not-insignificant percentage of these are still floating around.

All that draconian, but unenforceable, laws do is undermine respect for the law in general. The EU, in particular, has a problem. The more it does these kinds of things (and guns are not the only example), the more it makes people want to abandon the whole "European project." We're going to be seeing more and more Brexit-type elections in Europe. People are fed up with these unelected elites running their lives.

 

[Speedo66]

Luxembourg wants even stricter laws, probably little or no hunting going on there. Sort of like NYC, which controls the state of NY, opposing guns while the rest of the state hunts the Catskills and the Adirondacks.

 

[doubleh]

I can't really get excited about Europe's problems, guns or otherwise. They have allowed it to happen and it's up to them to set their houses right. The USA has enough problems to keep my mind occupied although it's much more at ease since the election.

 

[RoscoeBryant]

What the story leaves out is that even though Finlands concerns were not adressed, Finland voted for the proposal.
What's also interesting is the reasoning behind the directive. At the beginning, the comission told everyone, that the directive is not pushed to fight terrorism (they were accused of using the paris attacks as pretense for their agenda) but was on the table anyways. As the public fear of terrorism grew, they shifted their stand on that - despite the fact, that not a single one of the terrorist attacks in the last few years was commited with legal firearms (the last one was Anders Breivik).

So while containers full of illegal AKs etc. arrive at Rotterdam each week (a lot of busts of that kind were made in the past), we are supposed to fight terrorism with banning 10+ round magazines...

 

[1stmarine]

Finland are pretty civilized people so they don't see it as a threat. Plus they are a very small country so some control is actually possible.

I travel a lot and some firearms are "easier" to own in many countries over there by a person who passes the background checks.
It is just more expensive and everything is registered so people own less firearms but for example, the "so called" assault weapons are proliferating among hunters.
Specially because what here some states have classified as their own version of assault weapons are not really assault weapons because they do not have selective
fire or might be in calibers like 22LR or 9mm or 300 whisper/blackout pistol calibers. the fact that have pistol grips and muzzle brakes and large magazines doesn't make
them assault weapons. Only current service rounds and some past service rounds might be limited.

In some states here they are not even possible anymore no matter what caliber. Anything with a grip is evil and gone. California and NY are good examples of the non sense.

I think a person who is not physically or physiologically fit to own a firearm might not be fit to pilot a passenger airliner, drive heavy/dangerous machinery or
complete critical processes in a nuclear plant neither. We all should feel good such controls might be there and be effective.
It is a matter of how fair and objective that evaluation is so people are not discriminated arbitrarily and we don't interfere with peoples liberty.

But I agree the right for self defense should go beyond any government and any constitution and seen as a natural right.
No government, agency, organization, institution should have the power to limit ones capability to preserve ones life and ones loved ones.
Pretty much like other human and civil rights. God given rights or Natural rights are not negotiable. Again certain level of control might be acceptable.

I think governments should be hold accountable for the deaths resulting from failed policies like people being hunted down in gun free zones that are nothing
but a liberal modern version of hunting fields for the insane.
The argument is very simple. There cannot be a gun free zone w/o a secured perimeter. Ask anyone in law enforcement or military and will give you the same answer.

If a gun free zone sign worked then we would use them in airports security, court rooms, etc.. and we could avoid scanners, metal detectors and other headaches. But we don't.
So fellow travelers have more privileges and protection than our kids in campuses all over the nation where these government goons have declared pretending gun
free zones. This absurd policy converts them in officially designated criminal safe-heaven areas.

IMO this legislation is immoral, irresponsible and will get more people killed and those who support it and vote for it should be held accountable in a court of law.
Want gun free zones? Put secure perimeters. Cannot put secure perimeters everywhere? People should be allowed to be able to effectively defend themselves.

simple logic right?

 

[wojownik]

Luxembourg wants even stricter laws, probably little or no hunting going on there. Sort of like NYC, which controls the state of NY, opposing guns while the rest of the state hunts the Catskills and the Adirondacks.

Comparing Luxembourg is to the EU as NYC is to NYS? Got a chuckle out of that one.

The European Commission has approved these measures, but issued a statement lamenting that the EC was not able to attain agreement on 10 round magazine limits and a ban on rifles like the AK/AR evil looking platform.

Remember that the EC measure is one of three European Union organs that need to approve this measure. And then national laws would need to be re-written to be in conformity - and my guess is that the smaller European nations are going to be squeezed and bullied into submission.

Czech politics on this are going to be interesting - the Ministry of Interior issued a statement in support of this EC measure (a turn around from his opposition). But I understand that Czech interior and justice ministers are not supportive of this. Finland was very opposed to this measure a year ago, and I want to hear why they changed positions to support it.

Makes one thankful for not only the 2A, but things like the whole concept of checks and balances in the US government, and the idea of the Senate and Electoral College play a role to help prevent the dominance of a few larger states over smaller states. The genius of the Founding Fathers ...

 

[22250Rem]

I'm not up to speed on European gun laws in general but I have relatives in Scotland, where my dad's parents were from. This past spring they began a national air gun registration program. This past May they started an amnesty program where you could surrender your air gun if you didn't want to register it. The article I printed out from www. heraldscotland.com this past June 26th, states that the law will change on Dec. 31st, 2016, meaning that every gun must be licensed. A new air weapons certificate application form will be available from July 1st. The cost of a license is yet to be decided by ministers but the British Association of Shooting and Conservation has said it expects it to be less than the L79.50 shotgun license. I find it frightening that even air guns are now subject to registrations and licenses in Scotland, but I don't know about the rest of the U.K. , even though they did withdraw from the E.U. with that BREXIT deal. One of my relatives over there has an old air rifle he's had for years. He said it's in rough shape, not worth much, and so he was gonna surrender it rather than go through the red tape and fees involved with getting it licensed. So there's the major change in European gun laws recently, as far as the Scottish are concerned.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I am not supersized. Scotland is a very Liberal country. Many people live on entitlements. I must say, I was engaged in many arguments while I was there. They see Americans as a violent gun society engaged in blood sports.

 

[Flechette]

The right to keep and bear arms is a litmus test for freedom in general. If you do not have the right to keep and bear arms then you don't really have any other rights.

Europe is a classic example. Right now the governments in the EU are pushing for more repressive gun laws. Simultaneously those citizens that can buy a gun are buying them as fast as they can. In Austria gun purchases have quadrupled in the last year.

So the government is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what its people want. Litmus test result: fail.

 

[Twiki357]

And when Russia, China, or whoever comes knocking on their doors their going to start crying: Hey you evil gun loving Americans, send us your guns so we can defend ourselves.

Sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Zoogster]

Well Europe is extremely politically correct and would never say so, but the fear of the Islamic radicals they are bringing into the country is a big part of this. They want to eliminate legal firearms as a source of Mumbai style organized attacks over there with all the Islamic neighborhoods full of foreigners that socialize and can find like minded individuals as radical as themselves.
(Though they seem to be doing well just running people over with semi-trucks right now.)
While ironically the citizens' fear of that segment of the population is also being a huge part of why so many citizens over there are buying firearms and pretending to be hunters if that is what it takes to get a gun.

Over a million Muslims from a part of the world where they have endured war and are fighting and killing each other over sectarian differences have come to Europe recently. If you come from a place where killing another Muslim because of different beliefs is commonplace, killing others for interfering with Islam in general is less of a jump.
If even .01% of those mass immigrants become radicalized Europe is facing some serious terrorism challenges.

So while the EU has been antigun in general for awhile they are stepping up the timeline of removing modern fighting rifles. They fear their population, and a big part of why they fear their population more than ever is they just added so many people from that part of the world to it.

They are going through a shock over there. With the public rapes and groping commonplace in parts of Europe, committed primarily by Islamic immigrants. It is so bad they are advising women to dress differently and stay in groups in some regions. So beyond the actual violent terrorism, there is rifts forming in Europe, and they fear vigilantes and segments of the population fighting with other segments.
This is a part of the world where hate speech or saying things bad about a religion can actually be a crime, and yet they are seeing huge surges in support of racist and prejudice groups because a growing part of the population is tired of losing their culture and safety to foreigners with different values and views.
So you can bet the government is fearful of NeoNazi type groups gaining public support too. While the individual citizen may become even more powerless in directly providing for the safety of themselves and their family when disarmed, the authorities become more powerful being the primary well armed part of society, and that is what they want to do in light of the social unrest taking place.
Gun control has always been about power.

 

[larryh1108]

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."
Winston Churchill

"Whoever wishes to foresee the future must consult the past; for human events ever resemble those of preceding times. This arises from the fact that they are produced by men who ever have been, and ever shall be, animated by the same passions, and thus they necessarily have the same results."
Machiavelli

If EU doesn't get it by now then they never will.

 

[1stmarine]

I am not supersized. Scotland is a very Liberal country. Many people live on entitlements. I must say, I was engaged in many arguments while I was there. They see Americans as a violent gun society engaged in blood sports.

They are as liberal as anyone can be. They don't like firearms for the most part.
As for the violence we have it big time mainly because we have two Americas.
One is the uncivilized land of the cartels, gangs and drug/crime related violence. Violence is a byproduct of that.
The other America is prosperous and one of the safest places on earth.
Drill down by certain metropolitan areas and filter them out and all the sudden violence drops to world record low.

The question is what are we going to do with the decay and drug/violence infested areas.
Lots of political talks about gun control but nobody has the balls to talk about the real problem
Nobody ever tells us how we are doing in the war with drugs.
Perhaps because nobody has a clue about what to do. The truth is too harsh, too uncomfortable
so they bring up gun control BS. Gun control is just an excuse to avoid the discussion about the real problems.

Huge monumental problems of the other America nobody wants to even approach.
Nobody wants to officially recognize that we have several Caracas (Venezuela) inside of our own country.

So we remain in denial.

"For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them"

..

 

[Dog Soldier]

The politicians in Great Britain are like the Liberals in America. There flippant answer to eradicating crime is always gun control. Great Britain is among the most dangerous Nations you can visit. They have extreme gun control laws.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

 

[1stmarine]

The politicians in Great Britain are like the Liberals in America. There flippant answer to eradicating crime is always gun control. Great Britain is among the most dangerous Nations you can visit. They have extreme gun control laws.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

They don't like guns until they are at war with some other country a the risk of being invaded (like Germany in the past). Then they like them again.

 

[Dog Soldier]

USMC, Yes, American shipped them hundreds of their privately owned firearms during WWII. The Brits were to return them after the war. After the War they dumped all of these firearms into the English Channel. They did not want American criminals to get them??

 

[Deanimator]

It's just another example in a long list of Europeans doing everything humanly possible to ensure that victims remain victims.

The examples of Mordechai Anilewicz and the Bielski brothers send shivers of terror and revulsion up their spines.

 

[Mk VII]

" After the War they dumped all of these firearms into the English Channel. They did not want American criminals to get them?? "

Not true, and I've seen the documentation in the Public Records Office to prove it.

 

[Dog Soldier]

That is a typical British response.Would you please send me the address for claiming a pristine 1886 Winchester my family donated? And we have over a hundred families in Wyoming that would shake your hand for their guns back. We are awaiting the address. We have tried for over 80 years and you are our salvation?

 

[Deaf Smith]

No doubt ISIS just loves those European gun laws. Just loves them!!!! Makes it just so easy.

Deaf

 

[Deanimator]

" After the War they dumped all of these firearms into the English Channel. They did not want American criminals to get them?? "

Not true, and I've seen the documentation in the Public Records Office to prove it.

No problem.

Where are they?

 

[Capybara]

I have several friends in Europe who are great people. I have visited many European countries in my travels, both for business and pleasure. The history, food, appreciation for art and culture is to be admired. That said, you couldn't pay me enough to live there, you are totally at the mercy of the government for everything, the amount of political correctness is nauseating and as far as the whole Muslim issue, they have made their beds, now they will have to lie in them. I have little sympathy when brainwashed Socialist countries let their citizens be slaughtered and then fall back on the most typical excuse, that firearms control is the answer to all of their problems. Gun control is universally the excuse for all failed politicians. When they cannot do their jobs and come up with policies and laws that actually help society, they ALWAYS fall back on gun control. I wish that the brainwashed of every country could see that gun control = loser, failed leaders.

 

[huntsman]

They are going through a shock over there. With the public rapes and groping commonplace in parts of Europe, committed primarily by Islamic immigrants. It is so bad they are advising women to dress differently and stay in groups in some regions. So beyond the actual violent terrorism, there is rifts forming in Europe, and they fear vigilantes and segments of the population fighting with other segments.

This, the ruling Elite need to create a CPZ for the people who are wearing out their welcome.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Capybara, Well stated. You have expressed my feeling. I did enjoy my time in the Republic of Ireland. But as stated gun laws are excuses even there. Thanks for your post.