most reliable 308 battle rifle

I'm thinking that we should hear from some ex-Jarheads (Marines) who actually used these MBRs in combat in Viet Nam, pre M-16 days.

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You are aware the Army was there early-on too?

I went through basic & AIT with an M-14 in 1964.
I never touched or fired an M-16 until 1967 or so.

rcmodel

FAL. Just saw the Ol' Dirty thread. It just ain't right.

How about the Springfield SOCOMII? Looks like a badass .308 rifle to me.

It's just an M-14 with about 6 pounds of unnecessary extra junk hung on it.

rcmodel

Oh dear. I read with interest these discussions of mortar attacks and grenade blasts and such, and am so happy it doesn't happen at my shooting range. Shovelsful of dirt on your action? Thousands of rounds without cleaning?

Where I go to shoot, it is peaceful, well run, with a range officer, and people smiling. You shoot a few rounds, maybe even a hundred or so before you call it a day.

Go home to a cold beer or other beverage of your choice, and meticulously clean your rifle.

I guess from a purely academic perspective these inquiries are relevant to ME, but it sure seems far fetched as viewed from my comfortable leather easy chair.

I'd choose a FAL. In fact, I did.

You guys are really making me want an FAL. I've shot all three of the top contenders and my limited and amateur experience is as follows.

FAL: Slick, easy, HEAVY
G3: lighter, Sexy, accurate
M1A: Very sexy, not to heavy, not to light, very accurate.

I don't know which is THE most dependable, but I do know the M14 served me well in combat conditions.

XD-40 Shooter How about the Springfield SOCOMII? Looks like a badass .308 rifle to me.

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rcmodel It's just an M-14 with about 6 pounds of unnecessary extra junk hung on it.

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what junk adds up to about 6 extra pounds?

I got into the army in 1967 and basic training was with M14s.

Did it at Ft. Ord, Monterey, CA. Rifle ranges on the beach. Saw many M-14s dropped in the sand, never saw one fail to fire.

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A few grains of Fort Ord sand I couldn't even see thoroughly jammed my M1 with a live cartridge 3/4 chambered. It had to go to an armorer. No one on the range could get it open.

i like the socom 2 but 16inch 308 seems kinna a defeat of the point to not getting the 223

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You don't really lose that much velocity going to the shorter barrel.

From an 18" to 16" barrel you only give up about 40fps per inch with a 150gr bullet and a typical powder load.

Another vote for the FAL. A very ergonomic and reliable rifle. One other thing, its got an adjustable gas system unlike some of the other platforms. Some consider it a hassle, others like me like that extra level of control. Kind of like driving on manual transmission.

This topic again?

Ok, I'll bite - FAL.

If you've ever seen a movie like Talvisota, where there's no wussy air-mortars and it's REAL sand-and-gravel getting kicked up by the effects guys, and watch that crap landing on the actors, it changes perception of dirtproof.

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Uh, no disrespect intended, but watching movies probably isn't the best way to get your knowledge about firearms in combat. (Hint: If you're close enough to an HE round going off to get "a shovel full of dirt" in your action, you're probably close enough to catch a full load of shrapnel and blast overpressure. Dirt in your action will be the least of your worries. Not to mention that modern artillery has been using VT fuses for air bursts since about, oh, WWII.)

I say it's really dependent on what you're after. If you want accuracy and stone cold reliability, the Ishy is hard to beat. I've been wanting to add one in .308 to my collection of .308 semi-autos. I lust for the sniper model, but they're probably waaaaay out of my reach in terms of price and the dreaded W.I.F.E. check that's required.

I chose the M1A's for my main got to rifles after researching and shooting the others. For me, I like the ergo's much more than the others including the FAL.
That said, all three are great rifles at the end of the day.

All of the points have been covered on the pro's and cons's of each.

I think the bottom line is that if you are on a budget, get the FAL. They are cheaper to start out with, very reliable, parts and mags are dirt cheap, and they have a large following here in the states.

If you are not on a budget, get the M1A. Parts and accesories are much more expensive. Aftermarket mags suck and very few work. Good mags such as GI ones are expensive. But you get the versatility of a semi auto high cap rifle with the accuracy of a bolt action rifle. Plus you get the legend.

For those on a minimal budget, the Saiga in .308 is the best deal out there. $350-$400 at our gun shows. Mags are expensive though but hopefully the after market will cure that.

If you are not on a budget, get the M1A. Parts and accesories are much more expensive. Aftermarket mags suck and very few work. Good mags such as GI ones are expensive.

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Is the Springfield a close approximation of an M14 or even close to milspec nowdays? Basically, is there a M14 pattern rifle that's available to civillians today that's as reliable as the M14's that served the mil. I've always wanted one, but from all accounts that I've seen, the SA isn't quite up to the same standard as .mil issued M14. While not the only game in town, the other M1A makers are incredibly expensive and backordered (if still in business - it's been a while since I checked.). That said, the FAL and others are closer approximations to the real thing in my opinion which probably lend to some of their robustness.

Its a brick

Iv been carrying the AG3 for years in the norwegian army. Thats the same rifle as the G3, only full auto. Its more or less as rugged as an AK. More moving parts for sure, but I have never seen one failing even if it had been dragged through the mud and snow. It rapes the brass, so reloading is out of the question. The brass looks almost like a V when u pick them up. Accuracy is remarkable good. Bit heavy, but for its purpose, its very good....

rino451
Basically, is there a M14 pattern rifle that's available to civilians today that's as reliable as the M14's that served the mil.

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Sure, no problem!

Have Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc. build one for you on an LRB or Chinese receiver.

Ron built this ultra reliable MK14 SEI for me on a Norinco receiver - I put it in the SAGE EBR stock.

SIG SG510

it is so ugly that it scares the dirty away and so heavy that mud goes in to a stable Orbit around it and does not get to the rifle at all.

G3 / HK-91

I've never seen one have problems at the range, mine or anyone else's. I have seen FAL's have issues.

I vote for Ishapore Enfield, too, if you are not allowed to clean the rifle. But what sort of army would not let you clean your weapon?

FAL: the rifle for armies that don't fight.

News media images coming back from Pakistan show the Pakistan Army carrying G3’s/HK91’s.

I don’t know if they got these rifles at a bargain price, but at least someone is still killing evil doers with a 308 battle rifle.

From the finish wear I can see, some of these rifles show a lot of use.

After owning a PTR91, I think the G3 basic design is excellent: easy to make, easy to maintain. As long as the chamber flutes are clean, the sucker is going to eject the round. The carrier mechanism is very heavy, which means there is a lot of momentum to close the bolt, even if dirty.

Great design.

Over the years i have owned 3 , an older springfield m1a ( m-14 ), HK 91, and STG variant of the fal . I will say that imho the m1a was by far the most accurate tho it took more care to keep running day in and day out . The hk ran fine , but was hell on brass , both denting the neck and leaving the " hk kiss " with the striations of the chamber . The fal runs fine also ( assuming you either pretty much stick with a single load , or understand the adjustable gas system ) and imho has the best ergonomics of the 3 , as well as the least desirable sights . Of the 3 i still own the FAL and have no intent to get rid of it , tho i may add an ar-10 at some point ( if not outlawed ) as i have shot a couple and like the precision and ease of scoping them ( also i keep hearing rumors that someone is going to introduce one that takes either m14 or fal mags ) .