Lucky
Member
They're 'based' on AK's, but how loosely? And could someone modify an SKS or CZ858 to fire shells?
How modified are Saiga receivers?
- Thread starter Lucky
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SimpleIsGood229
Member
I assume you're referring to the Saiga 12. It's just an AK with a few design changes to accomodate firing 12 gauge shotshells. Since I don't own one, I cannot tell you what all the exact differences are.
The 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 Saigas are very, very similar to their AK-100 series counterparts. For all intents and purposes, they are AK-100 varients.
As for an SKS, nope; you're not gonna wedge a 12 gauge shell into it (if I'm deciphering your question correctly).
The 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 Saigas are very, very similar to their AK-100 series counterparts. For all intents and purposes, they are AK-100 varients.
As for an SKS, nope; you're not gonna wedge a 12 gauge shell into it (if I'm deciphering your question correctly).
Lucky
Member
Yea in my country anything 'derived' from AKs is banned, so I was wondering if there are other similar guns that could be converted to shotguns, even if it's a factory modification.
SimpleIsGood229
Member
The Saiga-12 is a factory-modified AK, so it may be legal.
Is it that specifically AK-rifles are illegal?
Is it that specifically AK-rifles are illegal?
Highland Ranger
Member
Its technically not an AK because it takes different mags and has a few other changes. It can be converted but it has to use a certain number of US parts - check out the saiga forum for more info
nalioth
Member
Yep, some folks never even glance at the "Location:" field underneath the posters user name before they answer . . .lipadj46 said:
This is why it's important to at least have your country (if not a smaller geopolitical identifier) in your information.
stiletto raggio
Member
Okay. My answer is technical, not legal. The external receiver dimensions on all Saigas are identical to an AKM. The mods made to make the shotguns inlcude lengthening and enlarging the ejection port, changing the bolt, changing the gas system, enlarging the magazine well and, on US-imported models, moving the trigger group and buttstock into a sporter configuration. AK grips and stocks fit the Saiga; the forend is different.
Lucky
Member
So something like and SKS could hypothetically be converted by removing metal from the receiver?
Gord
Member
Hypothetically, you could probably convert pretty much anything into a shotgun by removing metal and/or modifying or replacing various bits and bobs, including an SKS, a meat grinder or a '58 Chevy Bel-Air.
The question is, why in the world would you want to take the (vast) time and expense to do so as opposed to just choosing from amongst the multitude of semi-auto shotguns already available?
The question is, why in the world would you want to take the (vast) time and expense to do so as opposed to just choosing from amongst the multitude of semi-auto shotguns already available?
stiletto raggio
Member
The thing that makes the AK easy(ish) to convert is that it has a large, stamped receiver with lots of empty space to fool around. Sort of like how a Toyota Supra is really good for customizing because it has plenty of empty space under the hood. Very few other designs are made this way, and I can think of none that would lend themselves to conversion. Bottom line: if you want a Saiga, there is no reasonable substitute.
Bufford t. Justice
Member
Agian, why would you want to? You can still purchase sporting arms in Canada can't you? A straight stock Saiga should be considered a sporting arm and not an AK even if it's action is a Kalishnikov base.
Lucky
Member
Just liked the look of Saigas, especially the old ones Tromix doesn't show on their page nymore. There are mag-fed pump-actions, but no detachable mag semi's I'm aware of.
Guess Mossy 930's are to do.
Guess Mossy 930's are to do.
Bufford t. Justice
Member
THE SAIGA 12 SMOOTHBORE AUTOLOADING SHOTGUN is designed for professional and sport hunting and small and medium-sized game under various climactic conditions.
Not pump. Auto
Not pump. Auto
stiletto raggio
Member
I guess I am not sure who Bufford is correcting...
If the issue is that a Saiga shotgun could theoretically be convereted to a rifle, I don't think this is the case. It would be easier to make a new receiver than to plug up all the holes and install a rifle trunion. MUCH easier.
At any rate, Calgary is a wonderful place. I attended a conference at the Center for Military and Strategic Studies at UC. Your officers sure know how to throw a party. I've never had so much Port in my life, and the beer was great. Beaver or some such?
If the issue is that a Saiga shotgun could theoretically be convereted to a rifle, I don't think this is the case. It would be easier to make a new receiver than to plug up all the holes and install a rifle trunion. MUCH easier.
At any rate, Calgary is a wonderful place. I attended a conference at the Center for Military and Strategic Studies at UC. Your officers sure know how to throw a party. I've never had so much Port in my life, and the beer was great. Beaver or some such?
Bufford t. Justice
Member
I misread Lucky's last post. I thought he was saying the Saiga was a pump. Must've been too early in the AM. Sorry Lucky.
Gord
Member
You might call around and see if the Saiga-12 is indeed verboten; it's based on an AK receiver, yes, but it's in sporting configuration from the factory and (obviously) in 12-gauge. Converting it back to look like an AK involves grinding off some rivets among other things; that's how they're legally imported into the US, as non-sporting weapons from Russia are banned from import here.
As for converting an SKS or somesuch, it'd take a ton of time and money - you'd need to find an SKS-M, and then swap out the barrel, the bolt and hog out the magwell for Saiga-12 mags at the very least. All of this would be custom-made stuff. You'd then have to fudge with the gas system, enlarge the ejection port, etc. I highly doubt it'd even be possible to make a functional repeater - you might be able to craft a single-shot out of one, but again, why bother?
As for converting an SKS or somesuch, it'd take a ton of time and money - you'd need to find an SKS-M, and then swap out the barrel, the bolt and hog out the magwell for Saiga-12 mags at the very least. All of this would be custom-made stuff. You'd then have to fudge with the gas system, enlarge the ejection port, etc. I highly doubt it'd even be possible to make a functional repeater - you might be able to craft a single-shot out of one, but again, why bother?
Lucky
Member
AK's and any 'derivative' is banned in Canada, they wrote down a list of AK variants and derivatives, and then also said anything similar they didn't think of at the time is also banned. It's so vague they banned Dragunovs as variants or derivatives. Saigas are not allowed at all.
Tactical ninja thanks that's what I was looking for. With modern tech and places like emachineshop that can make any part you want, it's not impossible. SKS might be a poor example though.
The holy grail would actually be to make 2 guns, first you make a pump-action or bolt-action shotgun, then you can have unlimited magazine size. Second you come out with a semi-auto shotgun that the same magazines fit into, so you don't have to follow a 5-round limit.
People are always working on ways to live within our laws, and there are custom gunshops that do fantastic work and would get on-board with a realistic project.
These guys made a pump-action AR15, unfortunately they came out with it after Stoner, so the feds said 'no' to 30-round magazines.
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3069.htm
Tactical ninja thanks that's what I was looking for. With modern tech and places like emachineshop that can make any part you want, it's not impossible. SKS might be a poor example though.
The holy grail would actually be to make 2 guns, first you make a pump-action or bolt-action shotgun, then you can have unlimited magazine size. Second you come out with a semi-auto shotgun that the same magazines fit into, so you don't have to follow a 5-round limit.
People are always working on ways to live within our laws, and there are custom gunshops that do fantastic work and would get on-board with a realistic project.
These guys made a pump-action AR15, unfortunately they came out with it after Stoner, so the feds said 'no' to 30-round magazines.
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3069.htm
Gord
Member
Looks like the pump-action AK-47s developed for the California market. I definitely know what you mean with regards to working around laws!
Are you allowed to build an AK up from a parts kit? If so, you could maybe source an 80% receiver and somehow find a Saiga-12 sans receiver to import, then have a shop throw it together for you...?
Alternately, you might be able to convert a factory autoloader to take Saiga-12 mags. It'd be expensive as sin, of course, but if you're dead-stuck on having a mag-fed auto...
I definitely know what you mean with regards to working around laws!Are you allowed to build an AK up from a parts kit? If so, you could maybe source an 80% receiver and somehow find a Saiga-12 sans receiver to import, then have a shop throw it together for you...?
Alternately, you might be able to convert a factory autoloader to take Saiga-12 mags. It'd be expensive as sin, of course, but if you're dead-stuck on having a mag-fed auto...
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