Fee and background check to exercise your religion

Your confusing infringed with inconvenienced. I pay no fee to purchase a shotgun or rifle.

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You may not be aware then that some states charge a fee for the NICS check. But as you say, YOU can afford it so it must not matter.

Poor planning on your part does not necessitate and emergency on my part.

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No no, wouldn't want you to be put out at all. I mean, some poor guys house might blow away in a tornado and the looters are everywhere. I mean, it's not like he might want to go buy a shotgun huh? HIS fault for not planning for the looters. Yes.... the moron.....how dare he want to exercise his rights immediately. That's just crazy talk I tell you......

I bet I can think of a couple of store owners that would have loved to buy a gun during the LA riots. But no, that whole waiting period and all. But hey, it's their fault for not predicting those riots.......

Or the wife who files for divorce and now the husband is threatening her. She gets a restraining order sure, but she can't buy a gun because everyone was OK with waiting periods.

What freedom have you lost? You are free to own a firearm as long as you do the required paperwork.

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Sure, and there are never any false hits in the NICS system of course. No mistakes, no errors. No, it's all just rumor. The system is 100% accurate and completely cost free.

The U.S. Constitution guaranties the right to bear arms, it does not say that they won't be taxed.

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No one is talking about taxes here. Not sure where you pulled that one from.




Seriously, where do some of you people come up with this stuff?

I'm really begining to wonder if there's not a fifth colum of closet- antis on THR

On the same note, 1A only applies to hand cranked printing presses, do you have your internet forums license.. LOL

2A does apply to "assault rifles", Lewis and Clark had a 20 shot semi-auto repeater...

fiddletown: There's a big difference between living with/dealing with a current situation and accepting a situation with a defeatest attitude. Your earlier posts sounded like the latter, while the others sound somewhere in between.

The thousands of men and women who died, did so for absolute freedom, not a compromise. As a result we were able to start over with a clean slate (A). We are now at a point (Z) where there are so many restrictions on guns, from purchasing to carrying/transporting, that you have to do an insane amount of jumping-through-hoops just to travel around the country with them. You have been arguing about how we got from G to H, while the OP was making the point of how we got from A to Z. If you completely ignore how we got from A to G, then you make a good point. Everything since A has been the attitude of "well, you can't have absolutes" and "well we'll just have to deal with some gun control". The fact is, that for every gun control law that passes, the blood of those who died for our freedoms becomes a little less meaningful to those who accept it.

If you have a plan to fix the RKBA, please share it with us.

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Fix it? From the looks of this thread most gun owners don't even think it's broken.

Read back through here and see how many people said basically "No skin off my back, who cares"

And you're missing the point. What's "pointless" about this whole thing is that it's just another bellyaching session -- more gnashing of teeth and rending of garments about what's wrong with the world. This is wrong and that is wrong and it shouldn't be this way, it should be that way. So what? We've heard it all, and it's old news. The real issue is exactly what does anyone propose to do about it? If things are wrong, let's hear a real life concrete plan for fixing this.

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I agree, to some extent. But isn't meeting with others and becoming educated about different perspectives so that you can speak to others actually "doing something"? I think so. It certainly isn't all there is, but the alternative is to speak out without any knowledge (similar to Brady and other anti's).

And we understood that our success would not come because it was right or because we deserved it. It would come only if we did the work to earn it.

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It actually is our right, and we as a country have done more than deserve it, we have earned it in every fathomable way. But since that point a prevailing attitude of "we'll have to live with some regulation" has taken over to become what is our situation today.


Even though I have been guilty of it myself, I really don't think that comparing gun rights to other rights is helpful since the issues surrounding them are so completely different. I will say that NONE of our rights should ever be compromised.

I am pretty sure they charge for background checks because it costs the store money, and the price of that firearm reflects that charge. So, if you fail the check, you made them lose that money. It is a business after all.

And you're missing the point. What's "pointless" about this whole thing is that it's just another bellyaching session -- more gnashing of teeth and rending of garments about what's wrong with the world. This is wrong and that is wrong and it shouldn't be this way, it should be that way. So what? We've heard it all, and it's old news.

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I respectfully disagree.

While I will never stand in the way of a good ol' fashioned call-to-action, I do believe that (judging by some posts in this thread as well as in a number of others) we have a bunch of new members who really don't 'get' this yet.

I am encouraging the discussion because I believe that we need to educate the new folks before they're willing to actively work to make it better.

If it's old hat to you - sit it out.

If you can add a concrete form of Activism - open a thread in Activism Planning and I'll link this to it.

But your being frustrated by this thread doesn't mean that it doesn't still have value.

Fix it? From the looks of this thread most gun owners don't even think it's broken.

Read back through here and see how many people said basically "No skin off my back, who cares"

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And that is the first thing that we need to change.

and this is related to firearms how?

Ask people in the UK how quickly restrictions become confiscations. This should sum it up, please do not take offense, it is not meant to be disrespectful.

First they outlawed the machine guns, and I didn't speak up because I have a Remington 700, and who needs a machine gun to hunt with?

Then they outlawed the "assault weapons," and I didn't speak up because I have a Remington 700 and who needs an "assault weapon"to hunt with?

Then they outlawed the .50 caliber rifles, and I didn't speak up because I have a Remington 700, and who wants to hunt with a .50caliber rifle anyway?

Then they outlawed the semiautomatic handguns, and I didn't speak up because I have a Remington 700

Then they outlawed the rest of the semiautomatic rifles, and I didn't speak up because I have a Remington 700, and anyone who needs more than one shot isn't a real hunter.

Then they outlawed the high-power sniper rifles; But there was no one left to speak up for me, and they took it away.

Source: (modified for emphasis) http://musingsofavastright-winger.blogspot.com/2009/03/first-they-came-for-machine-guns.html

The slow growing awareness of the police state has finally pushed more men into the mindset of self-protection. We should all follow the advice I was given by an army ranger, "Never leave home without your concealed firearm, a flashlight (you can't shoot what you can't see), and a knife." We have to get back to the mindset of self preservation and self protection to keep our freedom, it is the foundation our country was founded upon.

Feel free to apply fee's, background checks, and waiting periods to any of your other constitutional rights. I guess it seems reasonable, right?

Yes it seems reasonable since they do it already. Want to buy porn? Hey, that is protected under the 1st amend, but guess what?? You must be over 18 to buy it. Sounds like a "waiting period" to me. Want to build a religous house of worship in some town? Guess what, some religous organizations (google Church of Scientology on not paying their property taxes) have to pay taxes on their properties that they own. Sounds like your constitutional right to religion is being taxed with fees.

what else....you have the right to smoke cigarettes. Guess what? It get's taxed and you have to be of a certain age. Sounds like a "fee" and "waiting period" to me.

you want to demostrate downtown and hold a rally huh? guess what, a lot of cities and towns will make you apply for a permit. Whoops, sounds like the 1st amend is being infringed upon.

so in reality, yes, a lot of your constitutional rights do have associated "fees", "waiting periods", and "background checks".

I support background checks. I don't want any fool off the street just to walk in and be able to buy a gun. Just like I don't want any fool off the street to be able to get hired to be an elementary school teacher without going through a background check.

Yes it seems reasonable since they do it already.

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That makes no sense whatsoever.

I support background checks. I don't want any fool off the street just to walk in and be able to buy a gun. Just like I don't want any fool off the street to be able to get hired to be an elementary school teacher without going through a background check.

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The feelings that created your statement have blocked all logical thought. You want to restrict free men from a right that government has no authority to encumber. Your position is contrary (anti) to the 2nd Amendment of our Bill of Rights. And the analogy of employment in teaching doesn't fly. Being an elementary teacher isn't anywhere near an inalienable right.

What a silly comparision.

If I'm standing in front of a man, and I point my bible at him and speak a verse, he's not going to drop dead.

Likewise, if I talk in his direction or sign a petition 'at' him, he's also likely to not die.

I don't mind analogies, but they should at least be relevant.

Personally, I support keeping guns away from convicted felons. If you can tell me how to do that without a background check, let's have it.

Personally, I support keeping guns away from convicted felons. If you can tell me how to do that without a background check, let's have it.

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Again, it makes no sense what you "feel" things should be.

Before 1993 there were no background checks. The crime rate was not higher.

Criminals still get guns, as they did before 1993.

So what exactly do you suppose these background checks do?

FBI admits they do very little, they don't even go after those that violate the Brady Law.

It's very clear that background checks do NOT keep convicted felons from getting guns so let's have YOUR idea.

This one didn't work and why gun owners continue to think that it actually does is completely beyond me.

Guns play no role in crime stats...

instead of saying the current system sucks, come up with something that works.

I don't support stripping free men of their rights.

I can't tell you how we should go about doing something that we absolutely should not go about doing.

If you can give me any concrete evidence how your beliefs could possibly affect violence, I'd be surprised. I know it feels good, but all evidence to the contrary.

Guns play no role in crime stats...

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Isn't that sort of the point? Crime stats are what they are regardless of the availability or limitation of guns.

instead of saying the current system sucks, come up with something that works.

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It didn't work any WORSE before 1968 so I'd prefer to go back to the way it was then.

Frankly it didn't work any WORSE before 1934.

No gun law in history has ever had a measurable impact on crime rates, so why argue about which gun law is best, or what gun law would be acceptable?

Some people are going to commit crimes regardless of the law, that's sort of the definition of "criminal".

Laws don't stop criminals so why should we sit here and try to think up "better" laws?

You're asking for an alternate proposal. The alternate proposal is to have no gun laws whatsoever.

It's historically proven that things won't be WORSE. As a constitutionally protected right we don't have to find laws that make it "better", just make sure we don't make it "worse" and having no gun laws at all do not make it worse.

This isn't complicated, but it requires people to leave behind their "feelings", which seems to be almost impossible.

The thought of almost unrestricted access to firearms scares the living daylights out of some of you, even though before 1968 that's exactly how it was in this country and gun use in crime is about the same as it was before then. Why do you "feel" better now even though nothing has really changed?

so the guy that shot brady( and reagen) should be allowed to walk into any gun store and buy a gun? He has been relased from his mental hospital for short periods of time to the care of his family.

so the guy that shot brady( and reagen) should be allowed to walk into any gun store and buy a gun? He has been relased from his mental hospital for short periods of time to the care of his family.

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You're telling me he WOULDN'T be able to buy a gun otherwise?

You gotta be kidding.....


Cho bought a gun, passed all the background checks, shot up Virginia Tech. So you have one example, I have one. We're even. That is my point.

Having no guns laws doesn't make it "worse" so what purpose to they serve other than to make you "feel" better?

So the almost exponential growth in violent street gangs would have no effect on crime rates if gun laws were repealed tomorrow?

In case you haven't noticed, gangs are moving into places like Boerne and Kerrville - they had a gang shooting two weeks ago, for god's sake. You're telling me easy access to guns wouldn't have any effect?

Christ, they're joining the miliary to learn tactics; and you want them to have all the guns they want.