Bring on the Universal Background Checks

[Ryanxia]

I wonder if the lawmakers know what they're really pushing for with this "universal background check"? I still intend to exercise my legal Rights if that is put into effect. Of course now myself (and God willing many thousands of other law abiding gun owners) will be in a situation where I'll be filling out 40-100 4473 forms a week. You see I like to borrow guns from friends to have fun with at the range, sometimes the same gun 3-4 times a week, maybe for lunch or after work, it is within my Rights and I still intend to do that.

So if thousands (or more) of us are filling out 4473 forms in excess of 50 a week (sometimes maybe the same guns over and over again) how will the NICS keep up? Granted many shops will charge but I bet plenty of freedom loving shops like my local one will do free transfer in this peaceful resistance (but not really resistance since it would actually just be following the law).

Another question is what happens when the local ATF agent has 35 doors to knock on for 'purchasing' 10-15 handguns a week? (reported multiple handgun sales). Oh those? Yes, I borrowed this one for a range trip at lunch on Tuesday, borrowed this handgun to take home and see if some parts fit on one of mine, borrowed this Jennings 5 times because I like shooting it, filled out forms on these 3 so I could take my grandfather's .22's home to clean them for him... etc... See where I'm going with this?

I'm hoping there will be enough shops (again all assuming the UBC passed) that will waive transfer fees for their regulars to send a message that we will continue on with our law abiding activities and not be intimidated. Maybe some folks won't agree with this but I intend to have fun exercising my Rights.
And in all honesty I do intend to follow the law so if the UBC were to go into effect this is what I would do regardless because I like to borrow guns or clean them for friends who don't like taking them apart, etc.

 

[gc70]

That is an interesting concept - aggressive compliance with the law to break the system.

 

[medalguy]

An interesting theory but the results are questionable. No shop is going to handle 30 transfers a week for a single customer for free, let alone a hundred customers. They will need several employees just to handle the phones, with the attendant salaries, healthcare costs, unemployment taxes, workers comp insurance, et al ad nauseum.

 

[Ryanxia]

It's a 2 minute phone call for my LGS, I think he'll do a decent amount for awhile in the name of freedom. Also if you get multiple shops to agree to do even 5 free transfers a week (you could put multiple guns on each form) that could add up with 5-10 shops in the area. Even if I have to pay I will do some, it's worth it to me.

Especially if 30 gun owners in each shop agreed to pay the transfer fee and lend each other multiple handguns for separate range trips. Make it a national event and that would be very interesting.

 

[barnbwt]

DDOS, all the way. Make them allow some delayed transfers go through without a check after the allotted days. Everyone just buy your guns on the first of the month, as an intermittent show of solidarity.

TCB

 

[Ryanxia]

You can bet IF this passes, I'll start a thread for a two week coordinated 'lending your buddy your collection' event. Two weeks at a few dozen extra transfers each should do nicely.

 

[tiamat]

Just like most DDoS's, you'd be hurting the wrong people. You think your Congressman is sitting there approving the transfers?

 

[GrumpyFNX]

Been thinking about getting my FFL. Maybe I could specialize in "Lunch Transfers"

 

[BBQJOE]

Maybe they could make private transfers a "do it yourself" online kinda thing, then we could bury the hell out of them without bothering the FFL's.

On another note, if you do a transfer between friends at an FFL's place, will he have to witness the physical transfer of the firearm(s)?

Can you imagine if we swapped collections with friends every week, how many people would be driving around with an arsenal in their car on the way to the LGS?

What's DDO?

 

[docsleepy]

Great idea. I would donate to fund the employees time at my fav gun shop

 

[Claude Clay]

make private transfers a "do it yourself"

my read is that the Proposed New Law will allow private transfers...just call the state police at the number on the bottom of the DPS form.

before it passes we had to call for handguns. but most called for all types anyways--keep ownership records against what may happen after it is sold.

haven't seen a list of what is being banned and that is troubling me.

 

[JRH6856]

At least one version of the UBC proposal that I have seen allows the AG to set the fee that FFLs will (not may charge) for NICS checks. My guess is the current AG would not set a low or even reasonable fee. Buying or borrowing, $1000 transfer fees can add up.

 

[22-rimfire]

One problem... NICs is not available for private citizens yet, only FFL dealers and dealers charge up to $50 per transfer. My sister told me that a dealer in her state was charging $100.

 

[Fishslayer]

Unfortunately none of the powers that be will give a rodent's derrier. They get paid regardless of whether the system works or not. Backlog? So what? To them it means fewer "evil" guns "on the street." (FWIW I store my guns in a safe, they have never been "on the street.")

We've had background checks in California for years. The people I deal with comply with the laws. The zombies down in the 'hood do not. They are not bothered by silly technicalities like carry permits and locked containers either.

Kind of wondering if UBC federally would result in people giving up completely or just trigger massive non compliance.

Clever strategy. All the talk of confiscation, 5 round mag limits etc etc etc and now people seem comfortable with UBC.

Something about a frog and a pot of water...

 

[hso]

Your understanding of the law is off.

You don't have to carry out a background check if you're at the range or hunting or on the same property or...

Also, for states that run their own program instead of NICS what do you propose? Punishing them?

How will you organize this form of civil obedience so that it has a real impact?

 

[SilentStalker]

Oh, if this ridiculous law was ever put into place they would find out very quickly how complicated it would be to implement. Its a laughable idea. Think about all of the manpower, paper and resources it would take to do this. I would suppose they would somehow put a limit on how many you could do a month and thereby infringe on your rights even more.

 

[AlexanderA]

One problem with this "aggressive compliance" idea is that the proposed bill, as currently written, would give the Attorney General the power, through regulations, to set the fees that FFL's would charge for running the background checks. All he would have to do is make the fees mandatory.

 

[22-rimfire]

From a politican point of view, they don't care if it "works". They can just tout how they have probably saved thousands of lives. They don't particularly care what it costs individuals either. Massive non-compliance? There would be some, but most would comply.

 

[Fishslayer]

I would suppose they would somehow put a limit on how many you could do a month and thereby infringe on your rights even more.

Here in the People's Republik we are allowed to DROS one new handgun every 30 days. We can "purchase" as many as we want but can only start transfer paperwork on one in thirty.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

In Colorado they already passed a Bill which sets a fee for the individual for the background check, not the store. Still, the Cloward-Piven strategy has worked to break this country through the excessive use of public services and welfare programs.....

 

[SilentStalker]

Here in the People's Republik we are allowed to DROS one new handgun every 30 days. We can "purchase" as many as we want but can only start transfer paperwork on one in thirty.

And you sir just proved my point. Where does it end? Trust me they could get a handle on mass aggressive compliance moves. Again, this is where people will have to make a decision. To comply or not to comply. Again, individually we are weak but together we are strong. As far as fees go, "who makes money off of all of them fees?" Yep, the same people that already take too much from you and use it inappropriately. Where will it end? Next they will start making up fees for all kinds of things and forcing you to pay those to. Wait, they already have its just up to the people to determine how long they want to comply. I am just trying to figure out what they are going to do once they tack on so many fees and taxes that people can no longer pay them. I already give up almost 50% of my check as it is. I can't give up much more. At some point those that pay for all of this mess will say enough is enough. I just wonder how long it will take?

 

[tiamat]

What's DDO?

DDoS - Destributed Denial of Service

 

[22-rimfire]

The Federal government's cut on my earnings is close to 50% now. That does not include state sales tax, property taxes, and so forth. I feel like giving up and just go on welfare, get a disability check every month, food stamps, energy subsidies, subsidized housing... every trick I can turn. Then I'll work part time for cash on the side.... win win.

 

[Ryanxia]

Your understanding of the law is off.

You don't have to carry out a background check if you're at the range or hunting or on the same property or...

Also, for states that run their own program instead of NICS what do you propose? Punishing them?

How will you organize this form of civil obedience so that it has a real impact?

I'm referring to someone who wants to go to the range without the owner of the firearm which is how I read the Bill originally, if that has changed than I am in error. As far as a plan of action I would say in the first two weeks of this law being in affect, fill out multiple forms a week at multiple dealers to overload the system. Also 'lending' multiple handguns to a friend and then taking them back the next day (new forms) to overwhelm the multiple handgun sale follow ups would be a good way of protesting (and coincidentally following the law to the letter). I know around here there are limited local ATF agents to check up on that.

In response to the 'they don't care if it's back logged, less evil guns on the streets' NICS has 5 days and then you're allowed to take possession of the firearm.

 

[skimbell]

That is an interesting concept - aggressive compliance with the law to break the system.

I was just thinking about this this morning after reading about the circus in Connecticut.
They're looking at registering magazines as well as guns. Postage would probably break you, but can you imagine everytime you "misplace" a mag or gun. To be in compliance you have to report those losses to the state immediately. I 'spose if you'd happen to "refind' the mag or gun, after you notify Big Brother you'd be required to notify them again and hope that you don't lose that one mag or gun, or another one (again requireing state notification) while your notifications were crossing in the mail. Then...well, you get the idea.