Getting ready to pick up a side-folding semiauto

My personal advice is to walk away from the AMD-65. These receivers have been modified so they will only accept this one particular stock; and most people report they're fairly uncomfortable, and if you decide you don't like it, you're out of luck. You want an AK with a standard receiver, as these can accept pretty much all AK furniture.

The Golani, well, I've heard good and bad things about it. Most people say they're good, though. Century seems to mainly have problems with their first production runs of a particular product, but their later ones get better. Of course, the naysayers are almost always talking about the early models.

The Saiga is honestly going to give you the best gun when all is said and done. They're made to much higher standards than other AK's. You really can't beat it. Yes, you will have to either convert it yourself or pay a premium for one, but it's worth it.

For the Saiga .223, probably. The 7.62's are always a bit more.

By the way, PM sent. Found you some deals.

In my personal opinion, the .223 is probably a better choice even though ammo is more expensive. The "cheap" 7.62x39 ammo is corrosive, which means you're going to burn through a ton of cleaning supplies trying to get your gun clean. It also requires you clean the gun immediately when you get home, and spend a good 30 minutes or so cleaning it to ensure you get all that crap out of the gun. It turns your typically low-maintenance AK into a headache. The commercial .223 ammo is cheaper than the commercial 7.62x39, and it's ALL non-corrosive.

The "cheap" 7.62x39 ammo is corrosive

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Not true. Wolf, Baurnal, Golden Tiger, etc. are not corrosive and are cheaper than the corrosive Yugo surplus I've run across lately. Some of the old Norinco was corrosive, but you are not likely to run across any of it.

The corrosive surplus is pretty easy to find it stock, but I've no problems waiting for backordered Wolf to arrive -- two cases ordered in Nov, arrived last week.

There is nothing to be afraid of about corrosive ammo, the only downside is you *have* to clean your gun when you get home. The only "extra" cleaning supplies you need are hot soapy water. Admittedly, one of the virtues of the AK is that you can be lax about cleaning, corrosive ammo does negate this. But if you are the type that cleans after every outing, you are missing out by not using corrosive ammo when it actually is cheaper.

--wally.

Not true. Wolf, Baurnal, Golden Tiger, etc. are not corrosive and are cheaper than the corrosive Yugo surplus I've run across lately. Some of the old Norinco was corrosive, but you are not likely to run across any of it.

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And yet the Wolf .223 is still cheaper than the Wolf 7.62x39, so you might as well get the .223 if you're trying to avoid the corrosive crap.

How hard is it to convert to accept standard Kalashnikov stocks? Would this save me money on a folder?

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There's no modification necessary to change the stock. You simply pry the old stock out and drop any standard AK stock in. But to install the pistol grip that you really need with a standard stock, you do need to perform the trigger group conversion. I did mine in 5 hours in my garage with an assortment of tools, some of which were downright ancient. The punches I used were old Millers Falls punches I pulled out of my late grandfather's toolbox, and the drill was an ancient Black & Decker corded drill (the kind with the old keyed chuck for locking in the bits).

By the way, that first gun I linked you was the .223. I linked it as a price comparison. In my opinion, you should go .223.

AK-100 side folder.

Locks up solid.
Doesn't adversely effect shootability.

Down side is they are expensive. BSW

Could give the AR-180 a try.

Find yourself a SAR-1 and a Romanian side folder.

Nautilus makes a good point; with a Romanian folding stock you can easily convert back and forth from a standard AKM stock to a folder (two screws!). These stocks were going for about forty bucks a year ago, I've seen them going for 80 to 100 recently.

Correct. The Romanian folder does it the smart way, with a mounting block that goes in the receiver and uses the standard tang and screw mounts. The Polish folder works the same way. Makes me kind of wish I'd bought one when I saw Polish Tantal takeoffs for $10. Now they're 7 or 8 times that in price. Note: some of these stock mounting blocks, notably the Polish ones, require you remove the pistol grip lug in order to install or remove them. The pistol grip lug acts as an additional anchor and needs to be installed after the stock is in place.

Arbor said:

Galil "Golani" Sidefolder



Pros
-Accurate
-Comes with a good stock

Cons
-Receivers are made by Century and apparently are out of spec
-Chambered in .223 (not a big deal)
-Pricey

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If by "out of spec", you mean "probably defective", you're very close to the mark.

Mike the Wolf said:

My personal advice is to walk away from the AMD-65. These receivers have been modified so they will only accept this one particular stock

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The receivers are as they were designed. Unless you're gonna go down the road of "the AKS-74U receivers have been modified" or "the AKSU receivers have been modified" and list every Kalashnikov variant made that doesn't match a Type 1 AK-47, that is.

The Hungarians designed the AMD-65 that way.

Arbor said:

So if i understand correctly, i could just get a saiga and put the romanian folder on once i convert right? Because it's compatible with normal AK receivers (not AMD).

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The Romanian, East German and Polish Tantal side folders are expressly designed to interchange with standard fixed stocks.

They are wire stocks, and become flimsy with use. They also have a crappy cheek weld (which may affect the accuracy potential).

The ACE side folder and the AK-100 series stocks do not loosen with use.

I'd recommend a Saiga and an ACE side folder.

Try a few folders before you buy one, some can be very uncomfortable when fired.

Since you didn't list an actual budget I'll be "that guy" and say "mini-14".

They seem to go for $600ish with those ugly tapco side folder stocks and rails everywhere.

Price: maybe. Reliability: yes. Accuracy: the new models seem decent.

a triangle or solid folding stock will be far more ergonomically than the wire folding stocks

At the risk of being the guy who answers "none of the above", let me highly recommend the CZ VZ-58. It is an absolutely superb rifle: light (despite the milled reciever), compact, accurate, and reliable. The side folding stock is a simple design and can be replaced with the full stock by removing one screw. Unlike the AKs, the CZ also has a bolt-hold open.

You can order one from Czechpoint for $850 delivered to your dealer, or only a bit more than what it would cost you to roll the dice on the Century Golani. Not only that, but CZ magazines (which, unfortunately are not AK-compatible) can still be had for much less than the cost of those Galil Orlites, and they don't need to be modified to work.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/

Shear stress said:

Not only that, but CZ magazines (which, unfortunately are not AK-compatible)

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I am unsure why this keeps needing be said.

The Vz58's only relation to the Kalashnikov is the cartridge both share.

Do you expect your Ishapore 2A magazine to work in a FAL? Why not? They're both .308.


I second the motion to take a look at the Vz58. It is head and shoulders above the Kalashnikov.

I am unsure why this keeps needing be said.

The Vz58's only relation to the Kalashnikov is the cartridge both share.

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Exactly. But the vz's at-a-glance resemblance to the AK makes it important to point out that the two guns are as related as dolphins and sharks. At the last three-gun I event I attended, other shooters--who were probably more gun saavy than the average person--kept asking what kind of AK I had. By the way, the vz. 58 was quite competitive in an AR-dominated field.

I second the motion to take a look at the Vz58. It is head and shoulders above the Kalashnikov.

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Absolutely.

I guess some could mistaken the 58 for an AK at a distance.

i'm wary to drop $600 for a mini when there are so many proven designs already out there in this niche

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Well, I tossed it out there mainly for the sense of "all options considered" it might provide. That said, the 10/22 and mini are not even close to the same league reliability wise. I haven't personally seen a mini-14 reliability issue that couldn't be attributed to cheap aftermarket mags. Left stock they tend to go and go and go.

I'd say they fit this list:
-Absolute reliability (all)
-Good accuracy (new, or old with some work)
-Light weight (all, though the folding stock adds weight)
-decent ergonomics (all, especially things like the safety, though opinions vary)

OTOH there's something about having a truly fugly rifle just for the giggles. Sagias/AKs beat the minis when it comes to fugly seven days a week.

What am I getting for 800-900 dollars? How accurate would it typically be? I like the VZ, but at that point I could just buy an AR15, or two unmolested Saigas.

Once again, I need:

-Absolute reliability
-Good accuracy
-Light weight
-Decent ergonomics

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From last to first, my subjective impressions of the vz. 58:

Ergonomics: better safety than the AK--can easily be actuated with thumb. Charging handle is at an angle and easier to reach for us wrong-handed folks. Comfortable stock and well contoured pistol grip. Forget about cheek-weld with the folder, but it still is reasonably comfortable. For reasons that escape me, the vz seems to have better recoil management than my AK-style guns.

Light weight: the vz. 58, despite it's milled receiver, weighs the same (and sometimes less) than many stamped AK-variants.

Accuracy: this will vary from person to person, but I find the vz. to be a well-pointing rifle that groups better than my AKs from both the bench and the shouler. Could be the short stroke piston, recoil management, or my imagination.

Reliability: I've put just about a thousand rounds so far through mine without a single problem.

These were just my opinions and your experience may differ. I've had a lot of variations of AK-style rifles (milled and stamped from five different countries) and I prefer the vz. 58 to all of them.