I expect to be stoned-AR/AK

I trained in the Army one the M16A1. Then they "improved" on it with the A2, but I never did like the weight of the A2.....it just wasn't as handy as the A1, and the little CAR was better. Then I leaned toward the .308 when seeing how much my 55gr bullets were blown off target at 200 on a slightly windy day. The .223 just kept getting less and less desireable as I quit shooting groundhogs. It just seemed bigger cartridges did everything better. I owned an M1A, HK-91, and even fooled with an FAL for awhile. Started liking a quasi-scout rifle (Remington 700/.30-06). It does everything, except fire lesser rounds real fast. When the current mood of society and economic changes caught my attention, I went to my gunsmith brother, and stocked up on some lesser expensive semi-auto carbines, in the form of a U. S. M1 carbine, Ak-74, and AK-47. I have a fair amount of ammo for each, and a fair amount extra for the AK-74 in case I am overwhelmed to go out and blast. They are not first rate battle rifles, but I have a CMP Garand for that. But the little guns can fend off about anything, and I can even arm my daughter and son-in-law if times get tough. For me, the AR-15 has been displaced. There are fine examples fo AR-15 out there, and to those that own and use them, I think you are well armed. For what I needed, and what I had to spend, I think I ended up with maximum return for the buck. How lucky any adversary will be coming up against me will depend on skill, and which gun I have in my hand at the time. Isn't that the way it is, ALL the time?

If you are that worried about SHTF,buy a generator and 300 gal diesel.

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Ask the people who were in New Orleans after Katrina when the police abandoned the city.
No food in the stores, no way to get out, no help coming (for a while).
I'll take an AR over a generator any day.

How Old?

wow, 189 bux!!!!!

how old is that ad?

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I believe the guy from whom I stole that image told me it was from a sporting magazine published in 1965.

heres my reason.

Are you following the news with the couple who had 7 or 8 masked armed men storm their home, kill them and leave them dead with their children there and take their safe.

An AK-47 might have been the hero in this situation.

Reginald Denny should have had an ak47 in the cabin of his truck during the LA riots.

You can look at the news any given night and find a situation that calls for an AK-47

FWIW, $189.00 ca. 1965 is about $1276.86 at the end of 2008.

See this link.

That knowledge makes me all the more upset I didn't get in on that S&W deal last year--you know, their basic AR-15 model for $700.00.

Jim H.

What's to dislike about them?

They work well, many can be exceptionally accurate, and they are chambered in common calibers that are easy to find.

Every red blooded American should own a rifle or two for the defense of himself, his family, his home, his liberty, his freedom.

Wow...what's next? Might as well start a "Garands are junk" thread...it should be recieved about as well.

BTW what is the record for posts per hour...before getting closed...this has got to be in the top 10.

buy a generator and 300 gal diesel.

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Hmm, maybe I'm missing something here....how you gonna shoot hording food maruaders with a generator? Maybe I've been using mine all wrong.

By the way,for the record I own a mini 14.

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I do too. It's okay, I guess: serviceable. I haven't fired it in years ... not much point to a .223, really.

one good thing about black rifles is that any good brand is a great investment. You buy a 1200-dollar gun, use it to death, and if it still looks new or in great shape, you can still turn around and sell it for 950-1000 bucks easily. Their value holds very well.

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That may be true now, but I wonder how long it will remain so after the Obama hysteria dies off. All fads eventually end.

Many people think that 'Beanie Babies' are an excellent "investment"!

And then of course there is the fact that there is a hot argument over whether or not people should be able to own them, which just makes us want them even more.

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That in a nutshell is the entire attraction for many (most?) purchasers.

You can take out deer, crazy people, varmints, or just go to the range and enjoy the cheap ammo and shoot all day.

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Just like a .22lr.

Justin, I'm no 'He-Man' (sure don't equate masculinity with firearms), but not being a varmint hunter I have no real use for an FNC or any other .223. "FN" to me means the old 7.62 version ... that's what we always called them in the military, anyway.

AR/AK... what is the charm of these guns?

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The AR is the ultimate Lego set and the AK has a well earned reputation as the energizer bunny of fire arms.

Everyone should own one or the other or both.

Good analogies! Boys and their toys ...

Yes, I am sticking a branch in the hornets nest,but what is the charm of these guns? A military gun whose very existence is because it can be mass produced cheaply,yet people are willing to pay $2000 for them. If you are that worried about SHTF,buy a generator and 300 gal diesel.

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a $2000 ar is not your run of the mill, "mass produced" or "cheaply" made.

as a matter of fact there are more makers than not of the ar series that are good to go, and they can be had for way less than $2000, as a matter of fact a built gun is way way less, and you can have it any way you want it.

as far as ak's the best on the market are Jim Fullers from Rifle dynamics, and they are no where near $2000. i wouldn't even own an ak variant that was that much, unless of course it was an SBR Krink. I have always wanted one of those.

Many people think that 'Beanie Babies' are an excellent "investment"!

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They're not? There goes my retirement plan.

2 reasons--

1) You cannot expect the police or other government agencies to protect you 100% of the time.

2) They are fun.

Just trying to keep it interesting. By the way,for the record I own a mini 14.

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Why in the world would anyone in a free state buy a Mini-14? They cost nearly as much as a good mid-tier AR now, use expensive magazines, are nowhere near as accurate as an AR out of the box, and fire the same cartridge. The Mini-14 is now more expensive than an AK, has no better accuracy, isn't as rugged, the magazine argument is the same, and the Mini-14 fires a smaller & more expensive cartridge.


(I know there are reasons some prefer the Mini-14 to an AR or AK, but I'm using your logic. )

my ideal SHTF gun is a break-action single shot 12 gauge.
durable, about 8 moving parts, and versatiltiy and popularity of ammo make it the best choice in my mind.

Why bother with a .223 when I have a .223 WSSM?

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Why bother shooting something that isn't a whole lot better and costs a ton more to shoot?

Here's my thoughts on the matter.

If you believe that "I am Legend" or Steven Kings "The Stand" will occur in our lifetime, then an AK is what you are looking for. If you believe in a collapse in society but certain infrastructure to remain intact, then an AR is what you are looking for.

If you believe in neither, then get the type that fits you best. I'l completely tear down my AR each and every time, clean it thoroughly and put it away. My SKS (I chose the AR over the AK) gets shot then goes back in the safe. I prefer the ergonomics of the AR and the unquestionable reliability of the east bloc gas piston.

If you believe that "I am Legend" or Steven Kings "The Stand" will occur in our lifetime, then an AK is what you are looking for. If you believe in a collapse in society but certain infrastructure to remain intact, then an AR is what you are looking for.

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Phew. I'm glad I chose my ARs.

Whats the charm, an AR is very very accurate, very well designed, easy to shoot, easy to maintain, easy to get parts for, and just feels right when you are shooting them. They have a draw for many reasons for many people.
They can fill multiple functions and in many states you can hunt with them. Maybe if more people had them in our country there would be a whole lot less home invasions, robberies, and other violent crimes.
AKs, well I dont have one, and dont want one, but have shot a number of them. Im sure there are many similar reasons in their owners minds, minus the accuracy, and many other features ARs are known for.
My AR cost me $539 almost new, and the gas piston upper cost me $1130, so between them and all of the accessories on both Ive paid less than $2000.
A family member has a Russian AK in semiauto that was new in the crate covered in cosmoline that cost less than $150 at the time.

As far as cost,I take it you don't reload.

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Just getting started...no .223/5.56.

if you don't consider 600 FPS more with a 55 grain a improvement

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Not good enough to justify the additional cost [when buying factory loads], and you have to remember the .223 is rather limited in usage do to the bullets available making the additional velocity is of little use. I will add that the larger caliber WSSMs would have been great if the had caught on (no factory gun chambers any WSSM anymore IIRC)