I expect to be stoned-AR/AK

[Shear_stress]

Let's see. Colt was selling AR-15s to civilians starting in the mid-60s at least. They continued to sell them throughout the 70s and 80s. They sold so well that new companies started to produce them, such as DPMS and Bushmaster. ARs sales were strong both during and after the AWB in '94-2004. Today, more and companies make them every year it seems including mainstream "hunting rifle" firms like Ruger and Remington.

Yea, ARs are a fad just like the Internet and cell phones.

Here's my Colt SP1 from 1968. Thank goodness that whole AR thing went the way of the Nehru jacket and the Johnson Administration.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

This might be a good question for this thread: Does anyone know of a gun vs. gun torture test between the AK and the AR? That would be one really good reason for owning one over the other. Or a even a "clean rifle, rounds before stoppage" test, leaving out the harsh envoronments, sand, mud, water, ice, etc. I have chosen the AK platform for "go to" emergency guns, but my choice was just based on secondhand info that the AK is more reliable.

 

[Maverick223]

Does anyone know of a gun vs. gun torture test between the AK and the AR?

Vietnam? A more recent one was performed with upgraded models in Iraq, but it included sand and other debris.

 

[TheFallGuy]

I like my AR15 because it is rugged, reliable, accurate, capable of taking lots of game, fun, light and easy to carry. They are also highly adaptable to various calibers and objectives.

Just remember that a lot of hunting rifle actions come from old military rifles. Heck, less then a hundred years ago bolt actions were considered military assault weapons. They weren't considered very sporting but now they are the norm for all game pretty much every where in the world.

 

[BMF500]

There is a clip on youtube of a guy shooting an SKS until the fore stock catches on fire and the weapon is too hot to hold. But the gun was still ready.....

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

So Maverick223, which rifle won out? That's one of the reasons I opted for the AK. Several of my gun associates who served in the Nam came to PREFER the AK over any AR (and some had the XM-177 as LRRP's).

 

[Maverick223]

I hate to say it but I am not a fan of the AK, it simply has reliability from the poor tolerances built into it; furthermore, it has a poor fit and finish. Not to say that it is a bad gun, IMO it is a poor choice due to it's exorbitant price (in todays market). I will say that the AR is not my favorite "black gun" either. Both have advantages (a friend of mine often uses a AK for it's ability to blend in while in Afghanistan), whilst the AR has become the grown man's Lego set (I like the large caliber availability and quick conversions the platform offers). Personally I prefer the SA-80 family or possibly the Tavor...both have the features that I like in a semi-auto medium caliber rifle.

 

[hso]

Why can't I just use the bolt actions I always have?

No one here has disparaged your choice even though you started out doing that for the AR and AK shooters. Trying to play the victim when no on has tried to victimize you is not going to work very well here.

 

[GRIZ22]

A military gun whose very existence is because it can be mass produced cheaply

AK is designed to be cheap. AR is innovative (for its time) use of materials.

Military rifles have always been desired by civilian shooters. Trap Door Springfield, 1903, M1, etc.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

[

QUOTEyou r][ wonder what are you going to cook with that electric oven...fish? i'm ok with fish but but it's good to have 30 rounds of rock-n-roll to go birds/hog/deer/lions/panthers/tigers/bear/mule/horse/cow/sheep/rabbits... hunting(i'll eat anything that moves). because if SHTF happen i dont think the food in the near supermarkets will last long (1-2 days max) then you have to start hunting on your own for you and/or family, untill you run out of ammo, then you start to reload until un out of primers/powder

/QUOTE]

I an REALLY getting tired of that bolt action remark being taken out of context. THIS is what I was replying to.

 

[SuperNaut]

I have lost IQ points reading this thread.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'm still a fan of the AK, from an engineering standpoint--KISS.

Of course it has its bad points, like the sights, and it's 'meh' points, like the magazine latch. And you won't hear me insult an AR any more than an AK.

But, IMHO, the AR may be too good to be a battle rifle. They're great guns, but in mud and dirt and sand and grime you need loose tolerances and open spaces inside for come whatever may.

My biggest gripe with the AR is the direct impingement system, though. I'm a fan of gas-piston rifles, which is why I'm a fan of the AK. An AR gets all the gook that comes from military ammo everywhere, and however much an AK does, you pretty much have only one failure point for the cocking system there--you'd have to 100% plug the gas vent.

Really, spend as much to build an AK (maybe not in the current gouging prices) as your average AR costs to build, and you'd have a gun that would outshoot most stuff in a monte carlo stock.

But for SHTF, I'd prefer either over a grill (I can track down a barrel and some wood, after all) and think an AR would do you just fine in your general Katrina situation even if an AK might be better. For fighting zombies alone, when you're not sure if you could stop and run a brush through it, I'll bring along Ivan.

 

[okespe04]

Someone, (not just the last poster), needs to get a life... what kind of degradation of society are you mall ninjas dreaming about...? WAY too much TV watching... guys!

The U.S. is going to let its lands be invaded...not! We Do have the baddest, kick ass military in the world... they're gonna need mall ninja civie help...right!

Oh, I know... we are going to get into a brawl with our own military... that's a good one... even if we did, do you think for one nano second that YOU are going to be able to do anything about it...?

The first shot that rings out would probably be met with some kind of mountain leveling munitions from an air assault. Pretty boy mall ninja and his souped up super sniper or the black clad AK/AR toting killem'all guy will more than likely be a nice neat pile of smoldering ashes beside the warped and chard remains of his $2000 super assaulter.

How's that...?

I'm going to start a storm here but for some time now one of the more powerful military forces has proven to be a bunch of ill equipped people with ak-47s, improvised explosives and crafty booby traps. I bet a bunch of ill equipped armed American citizens could be a pretty serious force too.

 

[sarduy]

I an REALLY getting tired of that bolt action remark being taken out of context. THIS is what I was replying to.

jim in Anchorage, the bolt remark as you call it, is no more than my opinion, dont get me wrong, the bolt action is a fine weapon system, in fact i own 3 bolt action rifles and love them all, even looking at another bolt action.

when i said "but it's good to have 30 rounds of rock-n-roll to go" i didn't meant to trash the bolt action in any way and i didn't make any reference for AR or AK i said 30 rounds... how many guns hold 30 rounds? way too many! even some pistols hold 30 rounds from the factory and others with aftermarket magazine.

"again this is my opinion"

if a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI happen i will carry!

1. Bolt action rifle
2. 30 rounds Rifle attached to myself by a cord
3. 32 round Pistol attached to myself by a cord / 8 round pistol
4. a machete

 

[Hammerhead6814]

I to am confused why so many people like the AK and AR. Chiefly because I finally shot a FAL awhile back and now I think AR and AK owners must be crazy to shoot anything else .

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Thanks for all the responses good and negative.I just got a Chance to read them all,and this is like geting a $100 book for free.

 

[Art Eatman]

Five pages is enough for the umpteenth iteration of this discussion.