Are there any reliable one shot stop statistics ?

dont know much about all these professionals being talked about here,and by no means do i mean to be disrespectful ,hopefully this doesent sound that way,but i was told by my father,who was an ex-navy seal,that did 3 tours in vietnam,dont stop pulling the trigger till they fall, as far as size of the calaber,they use 9 mm.,works well for them

Click to expand...

Your father was a wise man. Elmer Keith said to keep shooting till they stop moving. According to Martin Fackler, any caliber that completely penetrates the body from any angle should work well. Welcome to THR.

Hmmm, one shot stops.
I have seen a tank stop a van with one shot.
Thats the only one that comes to mind for me right now.

S&Wfan wrote

CONCLUSIONS . . .

1. SHOT PLACEMENT IS KING!

2. GREAT BULLETS, PUT IN THE WRONG PLACE, GIVE LESS THAN SATISFACTORY RESULTS

3. SOMETIMES YOU GET LUCKY . . . SOMETIMES YOU DON'T


HOW THIS RELATES TO HANDGUNS . . .

If a powerful rifle bullet lacks 100% effectiveness, how can you truly rate handgun bullets?

Also,

Don't be surprised if a human target keeps fighting you, even with great shot placement, a serious caliber hit, and a great bullet design.


Finally, ya need to practice, have a great caliber choice, and a great bullet design to increase your chances of survival in a handgun fight . . . plus a little luck too!

Click to expand...

You hit the nail right on head. There are better bullets (I use Winchester Randger LE and Speer GoldDot LE) but no such thing as a magic bullet. Shot placement is king. Also I don't worry about once shot stops. If I ever have to defend my myself I double tap center mass and if the bad guy is still standing my third shot goes to the groin.

I've seen an NVA take a MaDuce round to the upper thigh and still able to fight. My home gun is an M&P 357 sig FS and concealed carry is M&P 357 Sig Compact and the KelTec 380 all equipped with Crimson Trace Laser sights. If I have a home intrusion the M&P is grabbed until I get to the closet to get the Colt SP1 or the 870. Handguns are convenient and concealable but as my signature states "If know you're going to a gun fight take a rifle"

Turk

I don't believe in one shot stops. Like my sig says, if it's worth shooting once it's worth shooting twice. It doesn't matter if you have the the most uber advanced JHP .45 round, I'm not gonna fire just once. That's why I carry 9mm as well. More rounds=good. I'll take being able to fire 2 rounds 8 times with a 9mm than 4 times with a 1911 any day.

The ultimate in one shot stops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher Clean up may be a problem.

"Shot placement is king."

Click to expand...

"1. Ammunition Failure - Dove made perfect shot, gun worked perfectly, bullet failed to do what was necessary.

2. Had bullet met currently established FBI standards, Platt's heart would have been penetrated and he could have lasted 30 seconds or so - not the four minutes plus after which he killed Grogan and Dove....

…as our experience in Miami amply illustrates, shot placement is only the first part of the equation. Jerry Dove placed his shot perfectly. Bullet performance is critical to translate shot placement into an effective, incapacitating wound."

Urey Patrick III, 10mm Notes
#2 man (now retired) at the FBI Firearms Training Unit; Quantico, Virginia

http://www.thegunzone.com/11april86b.html

Posted by Newton:

Word on the street has it that Evan Marshall is just a plain old liar and his OSS figures are bunkum.

Click to expand...

I've not known Evan to be a liar. He may be wrong, but I doubt it. The "One Shot Stop" statistics are just that, statistics. To my knowledge it was always intended to be an imprecise unit of measurement for a very imprecise subject.

For what it's worth, "word on the street" has been wrong before, and will be again.

Posted by mete:

" the one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a statement of tactical philosophy " Evan Marshall 8/19/05. He has stated many times that you should shoot and continue to shoot until the BG is no longer a threat....Obviously there are many who do not read carefully and don't understand what Marshall or gunfighting are all about.!!!

Click to expand...

You stated this much nicer than I could've or would've.

BikerRN

Defensory - Dove made one perfect shot and 27 perfect misses.

Sorry, that so-called perfect hit was a fluke fired by a man who lost his corrective lenses in a car crash and was firing BLINDLY.

But sure - continue to jam misinformation down the throats of people and get them killed.

You are getting your Agents confused. SA Grogan was the one that lost his glasses.

Sorry. Then why did Dove miss 27 times if he wasn't without glasses?

Posted by DougDubya:
Defensory - Dove made one perfect shot and 27 perfect misses.

Sorry, that so-called perfect hit was a fluke fired by a man who lost his corrective lenses in a car crash and was firing BLINDLY.

But sure - continue to jam misinformation down the throats of people and get them killed.

Click to expand...

A clear case of the pot DougDubya calling the kettle black.

Sorry Doug, but you're the only one spreading misinformation.

First, you weren't even cognizant of the fact that it wasn't Dove who lost his glasses. In fact, Dove didn't even wear glasses at all.

Second, Agent Dove fired only 20 shots TOTAL before he was killed. Your figure of 27 is blatant misinformation.

Third, Agent Dove scored three hits on perpetrator Platt, as Platt was crawling out the passenger side window of the stolen Chevy Monte Carlo. Your figure of only one hit is blatant misinformation.

Agent Dove did quite well under the circumstances, considering that perpetrator Platt was firing on him and the other agents with a Ruger Mini-14 and two .357 Magnums.

Is that so?

-If you will allow me to "select" the instances for data to use.
Example: The one "perfect" shot agent Dove made.
-Then I can provide you with "reliable" statistics.

But that is not what you meant, is it?

If you permit me to massage the definitions of the argument to suit the requirement of reliable, I can provide what you want.

The two examples I'm stating would be "statictically" reliable to what ever degree of "certainty;" that is statistical -abstract, mathematical certainty within the data and defintions that have been chosen.

But you meant reliable as to real world actual applied shooting didn't you?

So...be ware of statistics.

Make your marksmanship, your reflexes, your weapon and your ammunition as reliable as you are able to.

All of this is why the 12 gauge shotgun is the king of the Home Defense Weapons instead of the 1911. A full charge at 21 feet of OO buck in the COM is bound to do something drastic to a human body! It may or may not be a sure one stopper but it is going to be discouraging as h***!