US Postal Service enforces gun ban in public parking lots

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goatboy66 said:
Yup.

That's why all of the guys saying that they won't use the PO, or that they think the service there is cruddy, are hilarious.

The FedEx trucks roll up next to the UPS trucks at our facility, drop their loads, we ship 'em across the country, they pick them up and deliver 'em.

Oh.
And, by the way-
Do you think they want to send a truck all the way out to BFE for a single package?
When the PO already has a vehicle that goes out there every day?

That's another time that the commercial carriers hand it over to us and ask us nicely if we'd consider carrying it for them.

What you guys who dislike the PO have to remember-
UPS can go bankrupt.
*If they do, what happens to the portion of the economy that depends on their service?
FedEx can go bankrupt.
*If they do, what happens to the portion of the economy that depends on their service?

USPS can't go bankrupt.
As in, it can never be allowed to.
The USPS, barring destruction of the entire nation, is one of the few federal agencies that actually does productive work and, believe it or not, makes a profit.
Yes, that's right.
Until the major downturn in the economy, we not only made a profit, but we contributed to the general fund.

If the post office goes under, you can guarantee that the entire world economy has failed.

We carry 30% of the mail, IN THE WORLD.

Those of you who don't like the PO, or claim to have had bad experiences, or think that it's unnecessary, well, you just don't know what you're talking about.
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No, UPS and FedEx cannot go bankrupt because our president would step in where I don't think he should, and "fix it" for them.
 
goatboy66 said:
Yup.

That's why all of the guys saying that they won't use the PO, or that they think the service there is cruddy, are hilarious.

The FedEx trucks roll up next to the UPS trucks at our facility, drop their loads, we ship 'em across the country, they pick them up and deliver 'em.
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Then what are all the big FedEx/UPS trucks for, do those only do short hauls?

Personally, I prefer the USPS anyway, it's cheaper.
 
As more and more people become accustomed to e-commerce, fewer will even need the post office. It'll be defunct in a few years.

Modern newspapers are an appropriate analogy.


Edited to add: I am making it a point to use them less and less. I'll even pay more, if I have to, to ship via other carriers any packages I have.



.
 
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Perhaps it's time for the NRA to sue the Post office for infringement of the right to BEAR arms. Publicly funded entities should not be setting the rules for the people who PAY them. They should be able to set rules for the people THEY pay, i.e. employees, but not regulate the citizenry. That is best left to the citizens.
 
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Wow.... Just Wow...

I have no idea what statute covers this.... Does not matter in the slightest. I know that if I were to carry into a PO, I would be arrested, and charged... Then I WOULD know the statute..

But, here's the rub. I don't want to be a test case. If you want to tilt at the windmill of the .gov, go for it. Let me know how prison chow is.

So, no, I have no idea what statute or law or small rubber ducky is the one that does not allow me to carry at the post office or their property, but I shant be taking the chance.

I would however, love to see someone else do it. Any volunteers?
 
I once hat the bright idea to have a thousand or so people in CARS that mysteriously "stall" descend on our state capital and lock up traffic at intersections during rush hour, as a last ditch protest before our state finally recognized and provided for concealed carry. The Columbus, Ohio police could not have towed the cars fast enough to accomplish any real response to such an act. I think a thousand post office driveways across the country obstructed simultaneously with "stalled cars" at the same time would get their attention. ATTN: THR moderators, last time I looked, advocating non-violent protests, like sit-ins (or "car"-ins), were perfectly within the law, and thus should not violate THR rules. Please correct me if I am wrong........
 
Not worried.

USC provides exemption for firearms possessed lawfully.

John

ETA: And I leave it in the car about 90% of the time anyway in the open, public lot. Some people worry unnecessarily.
 
Quote:
Except that 18 USC 930(a) does not apply to the post office.

Go look closer at the sign, it won't be 18 USC 930.
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Yes it does and yes it is. I don't know what is spurring you to spread misinformation but here...................

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos158.pdf#search='possession of firearms'

Here is where you can print out the EXACT sign that hangs in the local Post Offices in my area. If is from the USPS website. It seems the Post Office doesn't
agree with you.


Also, I really don't think the "other lawful purposes" is going to save you. Generally, that term refers to purposes that are expressly delineated by the law, not just a catch all for anything your are doing that happens to not break any other laws. I would personally advise anyone to observe the law and NOT carry in the Post Office. If you don't like that that find another way to conduct your business. If you are caught and they decide to press the issue you may spend your life savings trying to defend yourself in court. Its just no worth that. I just leave my weapon in the car and park off the grounds when I have to go in for something. It sucks and you shouldn't have to do that but it is what it is.
 
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Templar223 said:
USC provides exemption for firearms possessed lawfully.
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It is not only a USC that applies to the post office. It is also a CFR. The CFR does NOT contain an exemption for firearms possessed lawfully, it contains an exemption for "official purposes".

Templar223 said:
And I leave it in the car about 90% of the time anyway in the open, public lot. Some people worry unnecessarily.
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If you aren't worried about, then just take it into the post office with you, it is no more legal left in your car on postal property than it is carried into the post office.

Dravur,
I think you might have your volunteer.
 
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That is very interesting, jon_in_wv, thank you for providing that! I am mistaken and have been duly corrected. I suppose that according to 39 USC 410 that 18 USC 930 would apply because of the federal employee wording in it.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/39/usc_sec_39_00000410----000-.html

(a) Except as provided by subsection (b) of this section, and except as otherwise provided in this title or insofar as such laws remain in force as rules or regulations of the Postal Service, no Federal law dealing with public or Federal contracts, property, works, officers, employees, budgets, or funds, including the provisions of chapters 5 and 7 of title 5, shall apply to the exercise of the powers of the Postal Service.

(b) The following provisions shall apply to the Postal Service:

(1) section 552 (public information), section 552a (records about individuals), section 552b (open meetings), section 3102 (employment of personal assistants for blind, deaf, or otherwise handicapped employees), section 3110 (restrictions on employment of relatives), section 3333 and chapters 72 (antidiscrimination; right to petition Congress) and 73 (suitability, security, and conduct of employees), section 5520 (withholding city income or employment taxes), and section 5532 [1] (dual pay) of title 5, except that no regulation issued under such chapters or section shall apply to the Postal Service unless expressly made applicable;

(2) all provisions of title 18 dealing with the Postal Service, the mails, and officers or employees of the Government of the United States;
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Thanks again!
 
How is this equal to "enforcement"? Stating a policy and enforcing it are two vastly different things. The USPS does absolutely nothing to actually ensure that no guns get into their facilities.

I will appreciate their efforts when/if they actually take some initiative... posting a sign does not equate initiative.
 
Given a choice between USPS and UPS I'll take the Post Office. UPS practices total deniability no matter what. I'd use FEDEX if I could get the bank loan:eek:.
 
As more and more people become accustomed to e-commerce, fewer will even need the post office
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Harmonic,
I guess that you can email packages now! Yea I know about Fedx and UPS, but did you not read what Steve stated about the Fedx and UPS packages. For the last 10 years or so the UPS truck backed up to our dock(USPS) about 12 noon each day with a truck load of packages for the USPS to deliver the next day! Just as the UPS truck pulled out the parking lot, the Fedx truck pulled in and unloaded a truck load. Sometimes the packages would be no more than a block away from the P.O. but we the PO delivered them not the FDx or UPS truck.
I carried a pistol in my truck(personal) to work with me for more than 20 years out of the 35 I worked there(USPS), but I always parked off the USPS property. Georgia just passed a law that states that you can carry in your vehical in any parking lot open to the public, not sure how this would apply to the PO public parking lot.

Jimmy K
 
That is my exact point. I'd love to see them arrest a cop in a PO. Won't happen. Law versus justice, selective enforcement and interpretation. They fully know that the officer is under a lawful purpose (not explicitly stated). The only difference between you and I is a lot of taxpayers who can finanace a lot of city lawyers.

And of course the concept that:
1) any crime in a PO would mean no response.
2) any letter carrier on the street is at serious risk of getting a "slow" response

A cop has a lawful purpose. In PA one reason for a CC license is "self-defense". The thought that the state is has given you a license for an unlawful purpose is absurd.

I don't have a beef with post office employees, most are just trying to do their job. I think the leadership is a bunch of less than stellar individuals.

I also know that USPS handles a lot of "last mile" of deliveries. But at least I can cut down on what they get to profit from.

As for tilting at windmills it can be a hobby. Just because someone feeds you a line there's some benefit in showing you see the truth. You don't have to break the law, just excercise you right to free speech. We need to get the message across that laws limit our rights not provide them and should be used sparingly. It's a mindset we need to change.
 
Everyone has read the law, right? Or are some of you elected officials? ;) Concealed means concealed? Note (a). Defend yourself at a postal facility resulting in the death of the attacker? Note (c). A state or local LEO? Note (d)(1). A fed LEO? Note (d)(2). Mailing a firearm? Note (d)(3). Most any other scenario? Note federal prison is not pleasant by design and per reality.

18 USC § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
 
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did you not read what Steve stated
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I don't care what Steve said. He's an anonymous name on an anonymous forum. The fact is that the internet is killing the post office and its demise is long overdue. It's a fat, bloated, governmental monopoly that is noted for inefficiency. Like so many archaic institutions created by the govt, they've outlived their usefulness.

Let private industry do it. They'll do it cheaper and better. That's the nature of capitalism, viz. to weed out the inefficient operators.

From here:

http://www.newsday.com/post-office-looks-at-changing-hundreds-of-offices-1.1345749

with people turning increasingly to the Internet to send messages and pay bills, financial losses are forcing the Postal Service to consider consolidating or closing hundreds of local facilities.
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Here:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/03/national/w122815D71.DTL

The post office is facing a $7 billion loss this year despite a 2-cent rate increase. The agency has shed 150,000 workers since 2000, removed hundreds of mail collection boxes and taken other steps to save money.

Now the agency has sent a list of nearly 700 potential candidates for closing or consolidation to the independent Postal Regulatory Commission for review, and officials say more may be added.
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I'm not sure where all the hate for the post office is coming from.

USPS delivering for other delivery services aside, they tend to be able to get a package to a destination faster and for less money than FedEx, UPS and DHL. They aren't perfect, but they will never be defunct or useless.
 
Me either Chaoss. The USPS still handles BILLIONS of letters and packages yearly. Without that service a lot of people would be out of luck. In fact 99% of the internet shopping I do is delivered via the USPS. I have no faith that FedEx of UPS is going to take over those duties and somehow do it better. Its the same argument that people use with the Federal Prisons, that private industry can do it better and cheaper. In that case it really not true. There are some things the private sector can to better, I don't think the Post Office is one of them.

That is very interesting, jon_in_wv, thank you for providing that! I am mistaken and have been duly corrected. I suppose that according to 39 USC 410 that 18 USC 930 would apply because of the federal employee wording in it.
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I have no idea what you are saying. Title 18 Section 930(a)(b) isn't referring to Federal Employees. Its seems to me it stands on its own and is pretty straight forward.
 
FTW:endthread/

UPS-Store_dt.jpg
 
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The last time I used the USPS to deliver a certified letter with a guaranteed delivery (which I paid extra for) the letter did not arrive as promised on the day it was promised.

You know what the USPS said? "Oops, sorry, better luck next time."

What kind of guarantee is that? No refund either.

My business goes with UPS, DHL, and FedEx.
 
...Posting required by the law to enforce the penalty...

"...h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be. "
__________________

...if it's not posted...there can be no conviction under (a) or (e)...read the law, don't make an issue where there is none...I've only seen the posting at one main post office...never at any branch...choose your battles...
 
certified letter with a guaranteed delivery
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Unless it is a new service(within the last 8 months), there is no such thing as a guaranteed delivery on certified mail, only an attempt delivery on the day it arrives at the delivery unit, an attempt five days later, a notice on the 10th day and the return of your letter after the 15 day. If you mail something Express mail with a guaranteed delivery date, then you should be given a full refund. If the person is not home to sign for the certified then it will not be delivered. If you are due a refund get it.
Harm,

I am not anonymous and I have witnessed the UPS and Fedx truck almost everyday, Mon. thru Fri. for the last 10 years. The biggest killer of the P.O. is the fact that every podunk town of 15 people or more has a post office and the fact that the congressman that has voters in that town would not let such offices be closed. Do you see a Fedx or UPS office in those same town?
Another thing is the nonprofit mail that gets first class treatment instead of the service that they the non profits pay for. Those include churches, scouts and lots of other NP that are not NP like ACORN and the likes. Your first class letter pays for that NP stuff that has been a $$ maker for the PO in the past. As that group of mailers have almost quit mailing the PO has had to layoff workers and it will be closing that podunk office near you soon. I would be the first to admit that there is lots of waste in the PO, the problem is we have too many chiefs and not enough indians. I predict that the PO will be contracting out units just like the UPS and Fedx places like you see in the strip malls, which are private owned stores. Damm the PO if you like but I bet you will miss it when it is gone and that UPS or Fedx type service charges you $10 to deliver a letter! It will be just like the health care is headed!

Jimmy K
The Mailman for 35 years
 
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