US Postal Service enforces gun ban in public parking lots

[Landpimp]

mosty PO are on leased land, they seldome buy the dirt. Also like its been mentioned most are among other stores, not possible to enforce and really think they would have a hard time prosocuting. In my case, the PO is next to ACE and a Grocery store, land is owned by the Grocery store.

So the way they are talking, heck if I cant leave it my car....might as well take in the PO with me? ***?

 

[Claude Clay]

help me here....

i can not remember a single instance where a gun fired in or on postal property was done so by anybody other than postal employees.

is it not more so that we who use the service need protection from those who work there? yet we who have not 'gone postal' are denied that ability.

--------------
who said "gun laws are like trying to stop drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to buy cars"?

 

[HarleyFixer]

If I go to the Post Office, I just park across the street, leave the gun in the car and wander on in. Easy Peesy, Lemon Squeesy

Easy for you. My post office is in an area with no other place to park for 2 blocks.

 

[zoom6zoom]

If I could buy Postal Money orders online, I'd never have to set foot in a PO again.

 

[NMGonzo]

USPS won't even ship ammo.

UPS does.

Guess who is getting my money.

 

[middy]

i can not remember a single instance where a gun fired in or on postal property was done so by anybody other than postal employees.

Point!

 

[BADUNAME37]

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-G...rvice-enforces-gun-ban-in-public-parking-lots

SNIP

USPS spokesperson Joanne Vito told the Examiner.com that 39 CFR 232.1(l)


“applies to anyone coming into a Post Office or a Postal facility. The regulation prohibiting the possession of firearms or other weapons applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service. . . . Both open and concealed possession are prohibited, so storage of a weapon on a car parked in a lot that is under the charge and control of the Postal Service would be prohibited.”

. . .

Philip Van Cleave, President of the Virginia Citizens Defense League . . . said that the Postal Service is just “setting a trap” for the many gun owners who now carry their guns on a daily basis and may not even know about this parking lot gun ban. “Even the National Park gun ban allowed folks to store their guns in their cars,” said Van Cleave . . .

Now just how AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE POSTAL SERVICE OWNS, RENTS, LEASES, OR OTHERWISE IS IN CONTROL OF WHAT PROPERTIES?

The Federal Government and/or the USPS may be on the books for a parking lot that is not even near a Post Office, in which case, anyone having any weapon whasoever in that parking lot is committing a FELONY.

I'm fine with the law, but now they should really POST ALL OF THEIR PROPERTIES, so we are not inadvertantly committing a FELONY just by parking in a needed location!

If they DO NOT post any and all of their properties, then how are we, as ordinary citizens, supposed to know that we are BREAKING THE LAW in the first place? Are we supposed to go to the town offices and make a database of just what property is FEDERALLY and/or USPS OWNED? Of course, that is what it would need would be a database in order to keep track of all of this property that is FEDERALLY and/or USPS OWNED!

Is the intent really to make felons out of all of us?

 

[Superlite27]

How does Heller vs. DC fit in to this?

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that people have an individual right to own a firearm (we know this) and all the anti's are now trying to argue that this only applies to DC and not the Satetes because it is federally controlled?

......just like Post Office property.

How can it be argued that Heller vs. DC is only applicable to federal property, and then .......NOT have it apply to federal property?

I'm fuzzy on this.

 

[Mags]

What about states such as New Mexico that consider your vehicle an extension of your home and you have all the rights associated with sitting in your living room?

 

[ants]

I can not remember a single instance where a gun fired in or on postal property was done so by anybody other than postal employees.

See? Gun bans work. Sara Brady told you so. Now it's proven.

(Ya didn't see that one coming, did ya?)

 

[texas bulldog]

Is the intent really to make felons out of all of us?

perhaps. the good news (sort of) is that post offices are dropping like flies. as email and commercial carriers continue to eat into their market share, and the postal service's budget gets tighter and tighter, POs have been closing in most cities. i know they announced a few months back that they were going to close 30% of them in my city.

so i guess you can look at that as the total amount of off-limits space being reduced...

 

[texas bulldog]

What about states such as New Mexico that consider your vehicle an extension of your home and you have all the rights associated with sitting in your living room?

easy. state law has no jurisdiction over federal property. that's a pretty well-established legal precedent.

 

[jon_in_wv]

How can it be argued that Heller vs. DC is only applicable to federal property, and then .......NOT have it apply to federal property?

People LIVE in DC. You don't LIVE at the Post Office. Its just a place of business and
hardly the same thing. By the logic your using then people would have a right to carry a firearm into a Federal Prison too. Heller did not take away the Governments right to regulate.

Also, speaking of Federal Prison. There are plenty of guys in there that were guilty of robbing the mail or violate attacks AT the Post Office. Its not just Postal Employees its just not the "hot topic" anymore. Just like carjackings haven't stopped just because you don't hear about them in the news anymore.

help me here....
i can not remember a single instance where a gun fired in or on postal property was done so by anybody other than postal employees.

You don't "remember" one because its probably not something you pay attention to.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/876233.html

It took me about 20 seconds to find that one I'm sure I could find many more.

Here is another one shot right outside a post office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQGgm9fkNg

Post Offices get robbed just like any other businesses. EXPECIALLY since the robbers figure they won't have to worry about any armed citizens being in the store.

 

[BushyGuy]

wow i never knew that, thanks for the info i will park a block away from my post office and store my gun in the center console of my SUV. I dont want to risk losing my CCW permit.

 

[nathan]

Wow, USPS is getting pissy with gunowners. I bet they will leave a lot of gunowners pissed. I hope they will lose more business bec of this stupidity .

 

[Claude Clay]

its probably not something you pay attention to

i do pay attention as i read and follow the news as it is presented to me.

the road rage incident could have in front of McDonald's if that happened to be where they had stopped. that shooting had nothing besides proximity to do with a post office.
the first incident happed after costumer hours and was perpetrated by a criminal on postal property [ the loading area] where non-postal employees are not permitted.

yes these events happened on or near postal property. but except for location, they are not truly relevant to the direction of this discussion.

Post Offices get robbed just like any other businesses. EXPECIALLY since the robbers figure they won't have to worry about any armed citizens being in the store.

can you cite examples please of robberies during working hours inside a post office

 

[jon_in_wv]

Are you kidding me? Fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDasdtRNYs&feature=related

http://savannahnow.com/effingham-now/2009-10-14/update-reward-offered-effingham-post-office-robbery

http://www2.nbc13.com/vtm/news/loca...n_armed_robbery_of_mccalla_post_office/32866/

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/33198/

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/43430482.html

How many would you like? I'm sure I could find many more but I didn't want to spend more than about 2 minutes on it. If my comments are relevant to the topic of discussion. I'm merely attempting to correct an incorrect assertion that Post Offices only fall victim to their own employees which is on its face FALSE. If we are to apply it to the discussion NONE of the issues discussed would deter either problem but it doesn't excuse spreading false info.

 

[One-Time]

Ill follow the law up until it endangers me and my own!

In Florida we can carry in our car and store as well, but not sure how it applied to Federal Property

 

[Claude Clay]

cite examples

and jon-in-wv sure has. for all that i read- WSJ, NYT and the local CT paper; and the news i hear on the radio all day, i am honestly amazed that i have not heard anything about these [and probably other] events. why these news sources are not using these events to further their cause of making all guns evil is not understood by me.

I've heard it said that you learn something new every day--
thank you for the enlightenment jon

spreading false info

i read as a mite strong. i was working off of information i was aware of. it is/was incomplete and thus my statement was inaccurate.
i am not trying to weasel out of this, just that i feel there is a marked difference between making an inaccurate [because of incomplete facts] statement and making a false one. and i was clear in saying "as it is presented to me"

this type of discussion is another thing i like about thr: there are many of us here and we all know and contribute creating a rather large and diverse pool of knowledge

 

[Acera]

That is so funny. Today I just picked up a new pistol from my FFL.

It was shipped from Kansas to Texas by USPS. Yeah, the regular post office guys, and it was known to them as a pistol. LOL, I even tracked it's entire progress.

 

[jon_in_wv]

i read as a mite strong. i was working off of information i was aware of. it is/was incomplete and thus my statement was inaccurate.
i am not trying to weasel out of this, just that i feel there is a marked difference between making an inaccurate [because of incomplete facts] statement and making a false one. and i was clear in saying "as it is presented to me"

Fair enough! You sir are a class act in my book.

I am of the opinion that a person can watch the news or the AP Wire as intently as they like but they will still find themselves ill informed. The news is at best ratings driven and at worst social engineering. Sadly, reporting the TRUTH has become a lost art. Look at the recent "balloon boy" reporting. Its been constant news for days now yet I'm sure its is NOT the most important thing going on in the world right now. Its the responsibility of gun owners like us to keep each other informed. The media certainly won't do it.

Back on topic, I've been trying to find a source about something else I read a while back. It was my understanding at the time that even a private strip mall, if it contains a Federal office like a Post Office, Recruiting office, or a Social Security office in the same building, was also considered under Federal jurisdiction and CCW would be prohibited there also. I could be way off on this one and I can't find a my source for that. Maybe someone can help me out with that as it pertains to our current subject.

 

[Zoogster]

Guys.

You're forgetting Rule #1 of CCW:

"Concealed means concealed"

How often do you get a vehicle search when you go to the post office???

Well the problem is people who take off thier guns to not bring them into the post office are in fact even more likely to be noticed with a gun than those who simply continue to wear them.

So if you are planning to break the law by having it in the vehicle, why would you increase the chances of getting caught during removal and not break the exact same law carrying on your person inside?

All it takes is a person or monitored camera to see you pulling out your gun to leave it in the vehicle. A call of "man with a gun" and you can bet there will be a vehicle search.
Post office parking lots are busy places where people only go in for a couple minutes and are then coming back out. So there is tons of parking lot activity and plenty of people to walk by your window at the wrong time.
Transferring the concealed firearm from person to vehicle is the most likely time to be seen.

Some of us don't have mailboxes in front of our houses, and have to go to the post office in order to pick up and send our mail.

Those who rely on using a PO box would certainly be effected the most.
The person going to and from work will be unable to to easily check thier mail if they keep a firearm on them or in thier vehicle.
Many small business owners use PO boxes for thier mail, and often travel with decent sums of cash to deposit in the bank during the same regular trip.
They will be unable to legally carry a firearm while regularly transporting large sums of cash and checking the mail.


I wonder how many felonies the average permit holder commits, even unknowingly on a regular basis. Based on the number here unaware leaving a gun in thier car while going into the post office was a felony, I would say at least a few.




I do not see the reason for the restriction.
A person intent on committing a criminal act is just going to bring a firearm inside anyways. I guess the next time someone "goes postal" they want to insure the person shooting everyone is the only armed person in the post office.

First off, wouldn't they be required to post signs stating that you can't bring a gun onto the property?

The federal government is not required to inform you of any of its laws by posting them on a sign. You are required to know all of the laws, regulations, and codes.
The fact that full time lawyers who study law for a living do not even know how many federal laws there is total, nevermind what they say does not change that.
Ignorance of the hundreds of thousands of laws is no excuse.
You are also required to know when they change, and become more or less restrictive and obey them.

For example:
'Revisiting the Explosive Growth of Federal Crimes'
http://www.heritage.org/Research/LegalIssues/lm26.cfm

So large is the present body of federal criminal law that there is no conveniently accessible, complete list of federal crimes.

More than 40% of the federal provisions enacted since the Civil War have been enacted since 1970

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse", as the saying goes. You are not ignorant of this law anymore anyways.

 

[jcwit]

Other than business reasons, name WHY you'd need to send a letter hand carried from San Diego to Vermont.

Actually there is a whole group of people here in the U.S.A. using the postal service to communiate. They are called the Amish, and they are scattered throughout the the U.S.

 

[matrem]

Name another organization in the world that can take a letter for .42

Dang it! I'm gettin ripped off again..I had to pay .44!

 

[NavyLCDR]

The federal government is not required to inform you of any of its laws by posting them on a sign. You are required to know all of the laws, regulations, and codes.

Zoogster, That statement is not true.

39 CFR 232.1(a):

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property. This section shall not apply to—

and, 18 USC 930(h), which does NOT apply to the post office, but to other Federal facilities:

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.