US Postal Service enforces gun ban in public parking lots
- Thread starter majstoll
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NavyLCDR
member
Now that IS a true statement!
here's how I look at it.
The post office need not OWN the post office building, it may in fact rent.
If they are renting in a strip mall, they may have a few designated spots. If they are marked 'post office only' then its the same as if the postoffice building was all by itself on post office owned land with a post office owned parkinglot.
The post office need not OWN the post office building, it may in fact rent.
If they are renting in a strip mall, they may have a few designated spots. If they are marked 'post office only' then its the same as if the postoffice building was all by itself on post office owned land with a post office owned parkinglot.
NavyLT
Lets not get into this again. The court has already convicted someone for carrying a gun on postal property.
What you think you know or read is a moot point. This happened only last year.
It has already been decided on by the court system.
steve
Lets not get into this again. The court has already convicted someone for carrying a gun on postal property.
What you think you know or read is a moot point. This happened only last year.
It has already been decided on by the court system.
steve
Not to beat this to death but something that no one has ever articulated to me.
This section refers to another with an exception of hunting and all other legal purposes.
If you were a federal LEO and saw me on the street off of the postal property with a CC or OC firearm please quote to me the section I would be charged with before a magistrate. If you can't wouldn't that indicate that I was in a "lawful" state or purpose?
IF I was pursuing a lawful purpose off site what would my presence on a USPS site bear on on the lawfulness of my actions?
I'm not being argumentative or debating case law. I just think the decisions are BS to scare more people away as CC rates go up. I don't advocate breaking the law. I don't advocate testing the law. I do advocate avoiding the post office or using the web if you have to use USPS and schedule a pick-up. I also complain to my representatives that the USPS is a service to all and should be available to all.
This section refers to another with an exception of hunting and all other legal purposes.
If you were a federal LEO and saw me on the street off of the postal property with a CC or OC firearm please quote to me the section I would be charged with before a magistrate. If you can't wouldn't that indicate that I was in a "lawful" state or purpose?
IF I was pursuing a lawful purpose off site what would my presence on a USPS site bear on on the lawfulness of my actions?
I'm not being argumentative or debating case law. I just think the decisions are BS to scare more people away as CC rates go up. I don't advocate breaking the law. I don't advocate testing the law. I do advocate avoiding the post office or using the web if you have to use USPS and schedule a pick-up. I also complain to my representatives that the USPS is a service to all and should be available to all.
other lawful purposes
If you are mailing your gun through USPS. (that is other lawful purpose).
CCW's is not. Having your gun in the car in the fenced in area of the post office parking lot is not.
As long as it is not an enclosed parking lot you are ok.
The Judge ruled that he was in violation or Postal regs for having the gun in the car in the enclosed area parking lot for employees.
steve the mailman
If you are mailing your gun through USPS. (that is other lawful purpose).
CCW's is not. Having your gun in the car in the fenced in area of the post office parking lot is not.
As long as it is not an enclosed parking lot you are ok.
The Judge ruled that he was in violation or Postal regs for having the gun in the car in the enclosed area parking lot for employees.
steve the mailman
Iron Sight
Member
I predict the USPS as we know it will soon be gone.
They are not competing with other available shipping services.
They are not competing with other available shipping services.
Thanks Stolivar, understand what you're saying.
I just find it interesting that no one has ever been able to answer my question of what CFR I'd be charged with on the street.
That's because it's not illegal under local, state (PA), and US CFR. Also the fact that the exception says purposes not purpose, and in fact is extended to all facilities.
I'm not calling BS on anyone posting or de-valuing what is being said. Unless of course you're the judge in the case you mention or in charge of the USPS
. I understand the difference between justice and the law. My view is that we have a law applied with no sense or justice.
I just think we need to call out these things to get people to think. Once they've thought about it we can work to change it. I believe if it's not illegal it is legal, other people want to see it as we need permission. I just hope one day freedom sees a better day.
I just find it interesting that no one has ever been able to answer my question of what CFR I'd be charged with on the street.
That's because it's not illegal under local, state (PA), and US CFR. Also the fact that the exception says purposes not purpose, and in fact is extended to all facilities.
I'm not calling BS on anyone posting or de-valuing what is being said. Unless of course you're the judge in the case you mention or in charge of the USPS
. I understand the difference between justice and the law. My view is that we have a law applied with no sense or justice.I just think we need to call out these things to get people to think. Once they've thought about it we can work to change it. I believe if it's not illegal it is legal, other people want to see it as we need permission. I just hope one day freedom sees a better day.
Iron site you are delusional 
80% of the packages I deliver everyday come from UPS, FED-EX or DHL.
They drop ship at the Post Office everyday. This is all over america.
You pay them the big bucks and then they have us deliver a whole lot of their packages.
If you don't believe me ask a UPS driver.... Or even a FED-EX one. They hate it.
steve the mailman
80% of the packages I deliver everyday come from UPS, FED-EX or DHL.
They drop ship at the Post Office everyday. This is all over america.
You pay them the big bucks and then they have us deliver a whole lot of their packages.
If you don't believe me ask a UPS driver.... Or even a FED-EX one. They hate it.
steve the mailman
NavyLCDR
member
I don't understand what your problem is, Steve. Zoogster said the Fed. government was not required to post signs. I simply showed, ummm, yes they are, and not only in the case of the post office, but in other areas as well. Zoogster said, well I'll be darn, they are. Why did you feel the need to even comment on that?
I think this one has been beaten to death, but I would like to give a shout-out to the USPS employees. I use postal services all of the time, as well as UPS and FedEx. We live in a free country (at least for now) and have the free will to choose what delivery service we want. There are some services that only the USPS can deliver and I have found the employees in our area Post Offices to be very professional and friendly.
Until the laws are changed, I would never advocate carrying open or concealed where prohibited. Jail is a lonely, terrible place.
Until the laws are changed, I would never advocate carrying open or concealed where prohibited. Jail is a lonely, terrible place.
winston smith
Member
Funny. Last week I went into a hole-in-the-wall PO and the guy in front of me was carrying a revolver with the holster and end of the barrel quite obvious.
I guess that there at least, no one cares.
I guess that there at least, no one cares.
NavyLCDR
member
You mean my alter ego? He only comes out Tuesdays that fall on odd numbered days and this is a Tuesday that is an even numbered day. Honest mistake!
NightStalkerTX
Member
While the statute requires the government to post the property, there is no penalty if they do not, and the statute does not offer the failure to properly post as a defense to prosecution for the accused. So, unfortunately, if the government fails to post, the citizen still must follow the rest of the law.
I'm not sure what you mean by "one the street" but if you mean that you were caught with a firearm it would be Title 18 Section 930(a)
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.
Its on the sign at the Post Office. I don't believe people are charged under "CFR". The Code of Federal Regulations is more of a procedural code for Federal Agencies and the Executive branch not criminal law. USC Title 18 covers most of Federal Criminal Law.
Also, since the Post Office is a Federal Building PA law has NOTHING to do with it unless the statute defers to the state law and this one does not.
Although PO carry is one of the oldest and most overdone topics in Gunboard history it seems that somehow many folks still don't realize the fact that a gun on PO Property is a felony. I park on the other side of the street when carrying. I own the building I park in front of so it makes it a bit easier.
You would THINK it was a pretty simple concept. Except the fact that Federal Crimes aren't really codified as felony or misdemeanor the way the states do. Generally any crime that is punishable of up to a year or more is considered a felony. Remember I said GENERALLY. There are common exceptions to that too.
NavyLCDR
member
Except that 18 USC 930(a) does not apply to the post office.
Go look closer at the sign, it won't be 18 USC 930.
Yup.
That's why all of the guys saying that they won't use the PO, or that they think the service there is cruddy, are hilarious.
The FedEx trucks roll up next to the UPS trucks at our facility, drop their loads, we ship 'em across the country, they pick them up and deliver 'em.
Oh.
And, by the way-
Do you think they want to send a truck all the way out to BFE for a single package?
When the PO already has a vehicle that goes out there every day?
That's another time that the commercial carriers hand it over to us and ask us nicely if we'd consider carrying it for them.
What you guys who dislike the PO have to remember-
UPS can go bankrupt.
*If they do, what happens to the portion of the economy that depends on their service?
FedEx can go bankrupt.
*If they do, what happens to the portion of the economy that depends on their service?
USPS can't go bankrupt.
As in, it can never be allowed to.
The USPS, barring destruction of the entire nation, is one of the few federal agencies that actually does productive work and, believe it or not, makes a profit.
Yes, that's right.
Until the major downturn in the economy, we not only made a profit, but we contributed to the general fund.
If the post office goes under, you can guarantee that the entire world economy has failed.
We carry 30% of the mail, IN THE WORLD.
Those of you who don't like the PO, or claim to have had bad experiences, or think that it's unnecessary, well, you just don't know what you're talking about.
NotSoFast
Member
While UPS does not deliver letters, there are post office drop centers I can go to if I need to drop a letter. Everything else I ship goes FedEX.
makarovnik
Member
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I see cops in my P.O. all the time clearly carrying pistols.
What's up? Is it legal to carry a gun on USPS property or not or is it only legal if you're an officer?
What's up? Is it legal to carry a gun on USPS property or not or is it only legal if you're an officer?
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