US Postal Service enforces gun ban in public parking lots

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makes no difference if usps owns or leases the facility..... “applies to anyone coming into a Post Office or a Postal facility. The regulation prohibiting the possession of firearms or other weapons applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service. .

Being a small towner, it sure would raise a lot of rukkus if they tried to enforce that in our 3 parking space post office lot during hunting season...lol

I can't believe this has 4 pages of replies in two days.

oops.....now its 5
 
you will miss it when it is gone
Click to expand...

Even though I resent the govt monopoly and restriction of free trade, as well as the subsequent gross inefficiency of the postal system, it will never be "gone." They are downsizing and closing offices, but they'll always have a postal system. Not everyone is using e-commerce. They still have to deliver mail to rural areas.

But as far as $10 a letter, that will never happen. If they were to privatize the industry, competition would keep the price low.
 
It makes my head hurt to think how many times in the last 40 or so years that I have been engaged in an illegal act on a daily basis.:banghead: You never know what to do.:what:Its a good thing this is not vigorously enforced as we would have to close 1/3 the US for a prison area to contain all those convicted.:evil: I agree we should start a dialogue to bring about change of this odd law to something in line with today's needs.:scrutiny:
 
some of you are way off

daniel1113

"Lysander Spooner was able to deliver mail better than the post office in the 1840s. I have no doubt that FedEx and UPS could also do it if there weren't federal laws against it."

This is not 1840 (get with the times) UPS and Fed-EX don't want to deliver the mail. They only want the cream of the crop and the most profitable items to deliver.


"Publicly funded entities should not be setting the rules for the people who PAY them. "

DUH, we are not publicly funded. Have not been since 1970 (another one that needs to get with the times, and more educated at that):banghead:


steve
 
I’m not sure why we are debating the acute problems the USPS is suffering. Personally I believe that since the USPS owns or leases the property that the building/facilities are located on they should be able to set the rules and regulations inside the property line. I’ve never worried about being gunned down at my local post office, so I don’t see it as an infringement of my rights to have to be disarmed when I cross thier property line. I have worked for two different federal agencies and they had similar rules when on their property. To each his own.
 
another duh

harmonic


It's a fat, bloated, governmental monopoly that is noted for inefficiency. Like so many archaic institutions created by the govt, they've outlived their usefulness.

Let private industry do it. They'll do it cheaper and better. That's the nature of capitalism, viz. to weed out the inefficient operators.


There is no outside industry right now that could do the job USPS does. Where do you get inefficiency. Have you ever been in a mail processing plant or even in the back of the Post Office where the mail is sorted. It very efficient. The Post Office has been getting more efficient since the early 80's. We have Letter sorting machines that sort over 38,000 letters a hour. Flat sorting machines. Anybody else that would try to do it would cost you over 80 cents a letter. You would have no universal service. A letter would cost you 40 cents to mail in town and maybe a $1 to go from SF to NY. The post office gains about 9 million new addresses each year. We have also cut how many employees at the Post Office year after year.


with people turning increasingly to the Internet to send messages and pay bills, financial losses are forcing the Postal Service to consider consolidating or closing hundreds of local facilities.
The post office is facing a $7 billion loss this year despite a 2-cent rate increase. The agency has shed 150,000 workers since 2000, removed hundreds of mail collection boxes and taken other steps to save money.

Not true. The real killer is because the Federal Govt is making us pay 5.6 billion dollars to prefund retired health care. No other Federal Agency has to do that. You know why because they would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. (other agency's are funded by tax dollars).

Now the agency has sent a list of nearly 700 potential candidates for closing or consolidation to the independent Postal Regulatory Commission for review, and officials say more may be added.

All of this is caused by the Imploding economy and the past recession caused by greedy CEO's and Businesses. We would have broke even at the end of the year. The 7 billion in the hole is because of the 5.6 billion we gave back to the Govt and the recession.


steve
 
DammitBoy

The last time I used the USPS to deliver a certified letter with a guaranteed delivery (which I paid extra for) the letter did not arrive as promised on the day it was promised.

You know what the USPS said? "Oops, sorry, better luck next time."

What kind of guarantee is that? No refund either.

Unless you paid for Express mail next day delivery you do not get a guarantied delivery. If they do not deliver it on time, you can ask for your money back They must refund it. You probally sent it Certified with Priority Mail. That only gets you around 3 to 4 days (no guaranty)

steve the mailman for over 30 years
 
I sent in a bid to the state DOT seven (7) days ahead and the town is only thirty miles away. It arrived on the eighth day-one day after the bid opening and I was the high bidder. Will never use the PO for important mail. , wc
 
Erik said:
Everyone has read the law, right? Or are some of you elected officials? ;) Concealed means concealed? Note (a). Defend yourself at a postal facility resulting in the death of the attacker? Note (c). A state or local LEO? Note (d)(1). A fed LEO? Note (d)(2). Mailing a firearm? Note (d)(3). Most any other scenario? Note federal prison is not pleasant by design and per reality.

18 USC § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
Click to expand...
That's a very interesting law, and one that people should be aware of.

However, you, like the majority of people in this thread obviously never even read the first paragraph of the link at the beginning of the first posting in this thread.

What the guy was convicted of was not breaking any Federal law. He was convicted of breaching a post office regulation. It was not in a public parking lot, it was in a closed and gated employee only parking lot.

The conviction is not a felony, it has a maximum of $50 fine and/or 30 days in prison.

Now, this does apply to anyone, not just employees, and its wrong, but its not the end of the world.
 
Penalty

According to my reading, this postal 232.1 reg violation penalty is a $50 fine. I'm not going to sweat that in life. Even if it cost me $500, i'm not going to worry about it. It is not like you are going to go to prison over a postal reg deal and get a felony conviction. This is basically a fine and be done with it deal like a speeding ticket....similar to getting caught in a national park with a gun. The guy tried to get caught and go to court to set legal precedent....that was the whole purpose. I've never been to a post office that has metal detectors and pats people down when coming in. I conceal a handgun quite well and don't care to leave mine in my car and will not walk down the sidewalk. To each his own. I have better things to worry about. I've paid more money than that for traffic violations and still got plenty of sleep. My gun stays with me and is of no use a block away from me. This is nothing but a stupid rule to make the bed wetters feel better...nothing more. They can have their stupid rule and I'll carry my gun.
 
"What the guy was convicted of was not breaking any Federal law. He was convicted of breaching a post office regulation."

He was convicted of the administrative violation (39 CFR 232.1) associated with the criminal violation (18 USC 930) committed. To understand the one, one must understand the other. Basically, the legislative process produces the criminal law which leads to the creation of the codes by the federal agencies tasked with implementing the law. In the case of the USPS, 39 CFR 232.1 serves as the further regulate 18 USC 930; and to serve as a lesser charge to be used in most instances. But, don't assume the government will always choose to enforce the lesser charge. Federal prison has its fair share of tenants who weighed the risks of violating the CFR only to feel the weight of a USC conviction.

To understand more concerning CFRs, search the web. Seriously. Most folks don't understand them and given their impact in our lives, that is a shame.

As previously noted, the section of 39 CFR 232.1 violated:

(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.

And the section's penalty:

(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or
imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in
these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other
Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations
applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

That last sentence... That's the 18 USC 930 shoe to be dropped at the government's discretion.
 
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Every time I hear about the Post Office gun bans I think about all of the guns I had to handle while I worked at the Post Office. I worked the loading and sorting docks in Anniston, Alabama. All of the guns that were sent to the Anniston Army Depot for destruction passed through our facility. Most were poorly packed, since nobody really cared what happened to these condemned weapons. It was common to have M-60 barrels poking through the sides of the boxes or .22 training rifles sliding out of the ends. We often had to shovel up the loose parts and pour them back in the boxes.

So, no guns on Post Office property? Really?
 
This is not 1840 (get with the times) UPS and Fed-EX don't want to deliver the mail. They only want the cream of the crop and the most profitable items to deliver.
Click to expand...

Oh, excuse me. I wasn't aware that you were privy to the operational strategies of both UPS and FedEx. When you get back from the next board meeting, I'd be interested in hearing an update (it helps me plan my investments).
 
daniel1113 said:
Oh, excuse me. I wasn't aware that you were privy to the operational strategies of both UPS and FedEx. When you get back from the next board meeting, I'd be interested in hearing an update (it helps me plan my investments).
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I don't think that it takes someone with an MBA or a Degree in Marketing to be able to obesrve that the 2 largest worldwide parcel companies might not be so interested in buying out a government run system that has been dying a slow death for decades.

To keep it gun related I know that my local UPS hub has no problem with a private citizen CC'ing a weapon on thier property. I have never witnessed a sign that said otherwise on the property. If it is against thier corporate policy then they are lacking in notifying the public about it in my town.
 
This thread is still going on? How did we go from firearms to discussing the merits of UPS, FedEx, and the USPS?
 
I don't think that it takes someone with an MBA or a Degree in Marketing to be able to obesrve that the 2 largest worldwide parcel companies might not be so interested in buying out a government run system that has been dying a slow death for decades.
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Who said anything about buying out USPS?
 
I read every single post on a thread before I post my own response. I have read many, many posts all the way through, including all 119+ posts in this particular thread.

After reading all of your responses, I think that this website should change it's name from "The High Road" to "The High Horse", because that is what the vast majority of the members of this forum are on. There is very little patriotism evident on this website. I would say that a good 90 to 95% of the posts here reflect a completely legalistic viewpoint; that the rules set for us by the government are the absolute law of the land and that we must abide by whatever rediculous regulations the politicians decree no matter how detrimental they are to our wellbeing.

You legalists and meatheads contribute a large amount of momentum to the crumbling of the United States. You are dedicated to complying with all of the government's un-Constitutional statutes, and you tear apart anybody who stands up for the preservation and practice of individual liberty. Many of you are on a power trip - especially you who work in "law" enforcement and other positions of authority. You actually believe that you are outstanding upright citizens because you follow all the rules, and because you attempt to force others to do what some buerocrats impose upon us as being "proper" through their controlled media. You all need to get off your high horses and accumulate some real understanding of the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, and what it means to live in a free society. Freedom is fading fast. If you don't change your ways, you will seal your fates as the citizenry (or slavery) of a new 1930's-Germany nightmare.
 
Daniel1113

Oh, excuse me. I wasn't aware that you were privy to the operational strategies of both UPS and FedEx. When you get back from the next board meeting, I'd be interested in hearing an update (it helps me plan my investments).
__________________

I have many a friend and relatives that work for UPS and FED-EX. They all say that their companies do not want to deliver the mail...... They only want what is the cream of the crop and leave the rest. Most of these guys have worked for UPS and Fed-EX as long as I have been for USPS... They don't want my job and I don't want theirs.

Second get off your high horse and arrogant and derisive tone. The Few of us that have been trying to give you some insights to the working of the Post Office are kind of tired of listening to the dribble that a few on here have been spouting.

You don't walk up on a Carpenter or a fireman and tell them how to do their job or even imply that you know what is going on in the inner workings of their craft or business when they have been doing the job for over 30 years and you haven't even been an apprentice at any of their jobs.


Steve the mailman
 
M60 I Agree

We need more people like you around. I am not about to let some bed wetter 'rule' from keep me from keeping myself safe. A lot of folks are like me...I just keep my mouth shut when I go to the post office...J frame snub 38 in my pocket...or say a little 380...not hurting anyone...and those fed employees can post all the little 50 dollar fines all they want on the walls...GOOD FOR THEM! That's about like getting a parking meter ticket and sure cheaper than speeding tickets...and you know what...those never ruined my days either....but no one has ever known about my 38 in my pocket and never will....it stays hidden until I need it. Only me and God know. I try to stay legal...but there comes a time when a silly misdemeanor 'rule'/fine keeps me from protecting myself...well I'll keep my mouth shut and go about my business and protect myself...that's the way I've always been and the way I'll always be. Signs don't mean a lot to me....until the day comes that people start getting frisked to go into every building, mall, church, restaurant, movie theater, pro baseball game....their sign, policy, or feelings doesn't mean squat to me becauuse it's my responsibility to take care of me and my family...and mine alone..not anyone else's...that's the American way.
 
Thanks Razorback2003! Absolutely, if everybody concerns themselves with following the government's rules rather than practicing their God-given rights as declared in the U.S. Constitution, then it's only a matter of time before we are total slaves to their oligarchy.

-In the minds of the oligarchs, the United States is already conquered. They now own it and are implementing a plan for total control over every aspect of our lives.
-In the minds of the legalists, this is still a free country and you are at liberty to do as you please as long as it doesn't conflict with any of the oligarchs' 9,000 to 12,000 laws (which means that this is not really a free country anymore at all, but just pretend that it is - in order to avoid any uncomfortable feelings - at all cost).
-In the minds of true American patriots, this is a free country where the government must have minimal power over our lives, where we citizens possess inherent God-given rights, including the right to forcefully defend our liberty from all foreign and domestic enemies, and where freedom will prevail until every last one of us is captured or killed.

I believe that, one day soon, these differing viewpoints are going to be the cause of some serious chaos like this nation has not seen in a long time. Hopefully, some of the legalists will wake up before it's too late. Don't play the oligarchs' game; forget about their "rules" and live by our founding documents - the true law of the land.

"Thou shalt, in thy Warrior's Mind and Soul, always remember My ultimate and final Commandment: There Are No Rules - Thou Shalt Win at All Cost." ~Richard Marcinko
 
We need more people like you around. I am not about to let some bed wetter 'rule' from keep me from keeping myself safe. A lot of folks are like me...I just keep my mouth shut when I go to the post office...J frame snub 38 in my pocket...or say a little 380...not hurting anyone...and those fed employees can post all the little 50 dollar fines all they want on the walls...GOOD FOR THEM! That's about like getting a parking meter ticket and sure cheaper than speeding tickets...and you know what...those never ruined my days either....but no one has ever known about my 38 in my pocket and never will....it stays hidden until I need it. Only me and God know. I try to stay legal...but there comes a time when a silly misdemeanor 'rule'/fine keeps me from protecting myself...well I'll keep my mouth shut and go about my business and protect myself...that's the way I've always been and the way I'll always be. Signs don't mean a lot to me....until the day comes that people start getting frisked to go into every building, mall, church, restaurant, movie theater, pro baseball game....their sign, policy, or feelings doesn't mean squat to me becauuse it's my responsibility to take care of me and my family...and mine alone..not anyone else's...that's the American way.
Click to expand...

You're just a genius, aren't you? You don't follow the rules because you'll never get caught, but let's just go ahead and post about it on a public internet forum.:rolleyes:
 
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