Student Vigilante Group Armed With Guns Searching For Bad Guys Near UW Campus

^^
agreed.

They are - legally speaking - not going to look good no matter how dire and justified they act in a bad situation, given what they said. He outright said that he was looking for trouble. Does that mean he was instigating or trying to coerce such trouble? No. But, the fact that he was out "fishing" for it will damage any positive reputation he could use in his favor.

Looking for a gunfight is like going to a hospital looking for Swine Flu: just a bad idea, regardless of whether you do or don't find it.

Being attacked and then deciding to get a CCW or some self defense or martial arts training or whatever to help prevent that being done again is good.

Being attacked and deciding to arm yourself and go looking for trouble, that is everything CCW is not. Not only did they do something not bright but they gave anti-2A groups everywhere a great story to quote.

They could have done something really good for their community and their university. They could have armed themselves, then worked to make others aware of how they can make the college a safer place, but nope.

Heck, even Batman is wanted by the police!

I think these guys are retarded. I respect the reason for their actions, but the implementation of their "plan" leaves something to be desired. I see no problem with forming a "neighborhood watch" or even with it being armed. Doing so without taking the time to learn the laws regarding use of force, and get appropriate defensive/firearms training at the very least is just stupid.

I also don't think the guardian angels are a good comparison for this group though. Here is an excerpt from wikipedia about the guardian angels. "Safety Patrol members are prohibited from carrying weapons and are physically searched before patrolling. They are trained in basic first aid, CPR, law, conflict resolution, communication, and basic martial arts. Members are paired up and follow the directions of a Patrol Leader. Members, however, are allowed to do whatever they feel is lawful and necessary in case their lives, or the lives of other citizens, are endangered or fear serious personal injury." I would almost bet money that these college students did not have *any* training appropriate to the activiy they had chosen to undertake.

I'm a UW student, and I think this is stupid. I support them getting their CCWs because this area has gone to **** with all the crime and whatnot, but they should have left it at that. The whole patrol and fishing thing? I don't care too much if they do that or not, but they should have kept that off camera.

parading around for the TV camera's ruined any credibility they had. Citizens Arrest? right. CC is a defensive mechanism, not a justified reason to assemble an armed mob. I really hope they never get a chance to draw a weapon on someone.

I appreciate the passion they have to making their area safe, but one needs to switch from using their heart to using their brains once they start to implement a course of action.

What they are doing could very well result in no charges to the bad guys, and get them into legal hot water. Never bait the bad guys when carrying...there's a whole lot of things wrong with that.

:banghead:

Kids ....

I get their need for a vigilance commitee. I get that they want to defend themselves.

But they're getting "too" ready.

They are far too ready -- "baiting" as some prior posters have correctly observed, IMHO.

Won't be good if something does happen. Even if it's a justified shooting their eagerness will be held against them.

In addition to which, they may not be as prepared as they think. If they encounter truly ruthless, experienced thugs ... their inexperience will rebound against them ... and then what?

Fine line between baiting and deterring. If they're baiting, then I disagree with their actions.


If they are patrolling while armed, with the intent to deter criminals, I'm all for it. Though I think openly carried sidearms or even long guns would be better for that, for two reasons: 1) Your average crim isn't going to approach a guy carrying a rifle (instant deterrent). 2) in the event someone else is unnerved by the guys carrying guns up and down the street, they'll call the cops, and when the cops show up, the good Samaritans can explain to them that they're patrolling because the cops won't. This might present an epiphany to the local law enforcement of the area that "hey, maybe we should be paying more attention to this neighborhood, if the residents are taking up arms and patrolling the streets.."

These kids need to step back and rethink what they are doing. I would think if they were acting in an observe and report manner than they would be safer both physically and criminally.
There has been a horrendous change for the worse in the University district over the past 5 or 6 years with drug dealing/harassment and physical violence against students running unchecked. I know, my oldest who graduated in 06 was nearly killed in the parking lot of his fraternity by a gang of young men of color who left quite a mark on a few young men that fateful night.
Nothing ever came of it, but I guess assault and attempted murder doesn't qualify for people of a certain persuasion. I DETEST the seattle pd!!!!!!

I cant help but wonder if this isnt a sham. I can remember back before the 94 ban some of the accusations that the antis were hiring people to be redneck and say stupid stuff on camera, just to give them fuel for the fire. I wouldnt put anything past the other side.

Do I think they have good intentions? Yes.
Some of their statements were taken out of context: Yes
Going about it the right way? Not really.

I agree with most of everyone: CC is about defense and determent. I would say that even open carrying while just walking around might not be the best idea. You shouldn't advertise that you are armed unless you are with all your friends with guns.



Unfortunately this isn't what CC is all about. To bad UW doesn't allow CC on their campus seems on how I will be going there next Fall. (I'm 24 and licensed).

Kitchen_Duty said:

Unfortunately this isn't what CC is all about. To bad UW doesn't allow CC on their campus seems on how I will be going there next Fall. (I'm 24 and licensed).

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Actually I don't think it was the UW that banned CC on campus. I am pretty sure it is a state law unfortunately, and i believe it covers all college campuses not just the UW.

Is what they are doing any different from a speed trap? Looking for trouble.
Same goes for police women dressing up as hookers and looking for customers.

The speed trap thing gets my blood boiling. Nothing worse than being singled out because you have a red car and they need to give tickets to help budget during a recession.
I have no experience with the hooker thing but I'm sure those caught feel it was entrapment also

I say let them reel in some suckers(criminals) and see what happens. They are adults so they can deal with the consequences if things get hairy.

Who hear thinks Batman is the bad guy? Sometimes you need to use unorthodox methods.

Is what they are doing any different from a speed trap? Looking for trouble.
Same goes for police women dressing up as hookers and looking for customers.

The speed trap thing gets my blood boiling. Nothing worse than being singled out because you have a red car and they need to give tickets to help budget during a recession.
I have no experience with the hooker thing but I'm sure those caught feel it was entrapment also

I say let them reel in some suckers(criminals) and see what happens. They are adults so they can deal with the consequences if things get hairy.

Who hear thinks Batman is the bad guy? Sometimes you need to use unorthodox methods.

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What they are doing is definately different than a speed trap, because they are not sworn officers of the law. If they want to play cop, they should become cops. Same goes for the prostitute thing. As far as red cars, you wouldnt be singled out if you werent speeding. They cant pull you over and give you a ticket for driving a red car.

The problem with these guys are that, if this is true, they are screwing us all over by doing it. it makes us all look like bloodthirsty vigilantes and gives that hag pelosi and her bunch some ammo. "we have to end CCW for the childreeeennnnnnnnnn"

I gotta get me one of them "concealed license permits"

I can understand why they're upset, but this was really done the wrong way.

Washington state and Oregon, specifically Portland, have a lot of people that could be classified as "hippies". Because these folks are all about "peace and love" there simply isn't any reason for CCW.

And then the rest of us live in the real world.

Putting on t-shirts with "Neighborhood Watch" on them, walking in small groups of 4 to 6 people, would have been a better choice since they were college students.

Unfortunately it seems this is what happens when crime goes up, there is a percieved lack of police presence to fix it (regardless whether this is accurate or not), and people get fed up.



Kris

Imma laugh my ass off when they run into some of them East African Posse kats or something and get shot at.

chuckusaret said:

I agree with you. The school should be forced to increase their security.

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Firearms arent allowed on campus (as usual), and the crimes they are referring to are occuring on the commercial streets and in the neighborhoods. And that looked like where they were 'patrolling.'

rickomatic said:

I gotta get me one of them "concealed license permits"

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If you dont have a felony record, it will only take you $55, a set of fingerprints, and about a week. ;-)


*WAC member

I'm a UW student (five weeks to graduation!) and I'm really not surprised. Note that there *is* a service where you can call a security person to walk you to your vehicle or give you a lift to your bus stop at night. Students are encouraged to use it. We also get state-mandated timely notifications of crime events in the UW area, as supplied by the UWPD. In addition, the UWPD will send us notices when suspects are arrested. This means we get an awful lot of notices in our email boxes, making the crime situation seem much worse.

As a sociology student, I'd love to apply the broken windows theory here. That is, that the appearance of social disorder engenders greater social disorder. But the offenders, by and large, are not students themselves. They're just preying on a high value and unarmed target. There was a well-publicized incident early this year (last year?) in which a pair of serial muggers were soldiers from Ft Lewis and were commuting in to perform armed robberies. Depending on traffic that may have been an hour and a half commute!

Most of the robberies happen at night, and they're split roughly between the housing areas (frat row) and the main University shopping drag. One recent notable event happened at 8:30am on the main shopping drag, which is bizarre to me. Why didn't the victim just yell thief! Must have been fifty people within a two block radius.

A similar spree of criminal activity happened a couple years ago on frat row. Sorority girls were being mugged and accosted heading home. Soon, patrols of baseball-bat-wielding frat boys were walking up and down the streets at 2am. They actually cornered a home invader and called the cops, as I recall. A victory was declared and they stopped their patrols.

I work at Harborview Medical Center, in downtown Seattle. HMC is a county level I trauma center. And it is managed by the University of Washington.

We constantly get email updates on assaults and robberies that are occuring on campus and around neighborhoods near by.

You'd think it was the wild west, with all the press these assaults and muggings are getting. Not to mention, all the trauma cases rolling into our ER at night.

Last year a young foriegn student was beat unconcious on the sidewalk at night as street traffic sped by. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/347015_uwassault12.html

Earlier this year, active duty soldiers were arrested in connection with a string of muggings that occured near the UW campus. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/fort_lewis_soldiers_arrested_i.html

The campus police and Seattle police are both spread so thin, they just can't possibly be everywhere at once. The problem is that Seattle's U-district is easy pickings. There's lots of narrow dimmly lit streets, and lots of affluent young students who are often intoxicated and careless.

The last thing we need is some gun-toting young man, who's feeling immasculated because he was mugged, waving a gun around.

Actually I don't think it was the UW that banned CC on campus. I am pretty sure it is a state law unfortunately, and i believe it covers all college campuses not just the UW.

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There is NO WA State Law against carrying in a university, or college. There are administrative rules for students, in some though.

wilkersk said:

The last thing we need is some gun-toting young man, who's feeling immasculated ......

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UW had one of those last yr too..the stalker boyfriend, who had a restraining order against him, who walked into a campus building and shot his ex-girlfriend and then himself. That woman knew she was in danger....she should have been carrying.....(but again, not allowed on campus)

The applicable rule is here. The state RCW makes firearms illegal on primary and secondary school grounds.