Is all that ammo necessary?

Since I carry an autoloader I carry two spare mags. One in case I need it, another in case I drop the first one...Yes I practice mag exchanges but better safe than sorry....Total of 37 rounds of .40 cal, can't imagine needing that much but if I fumble a reload...

christcorp said:

You didn't always have a concealed carry weapon. You probably didn't always have a carry weapon of any type. Yet, you were able to keep yourself safe. Usually with your brain. Where to walk, when to walk, how to walk, and many other mental tools. And that is the key to a firearm. It is simply a tool. If you realize that no gun ever saved a person; just like no gun ever killed a person; and that it's the person holding the gun that decides the outcome, then you will have your answer. . . . . But the person who relies on themselves and not the gun, will be able to handle a threat if their firearm doesn't function, is not available, is taken away, etc...

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There's a lot of wisdom in that post. A whole lot . . .

Total of 37 rounds of .40 cal, can't imagine needing that much...

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Explain your logic to the 38th assailant.

Kidding!

If I'm carrying one 442 (like right now), there's two speedstrips in my pocket, total 17. If I'm carrying two revolvers (outside on the farm), four speedstrips, total 35 rounds. If I'm in business attire, I'm usually carrying two autos, one spare mag for each, for a total of 36 rounds.

Les

Back when I owned a mini mart I carried a 1911 w/spare mag strongside, S&W Mdl19 snubby in a shoulder holster w/2 speedloaders and a Taurus Mdl 85 in an ankle holster w/speed strip. This was back in the '80's when it was commonplace to work the graveyard shift solo. I was not going to lose for lack of trying. Oh, and a 12 Ga. in the office.

It all depends on the situation and what you're comfortable with. These days I rarely carry a BUG, but I always have spare ammo.

Now what do you think about a spare gun,,,,, ??

A BUG is going to be a personal choice. We live in a world where bad things happen. If one bad thing can happen, (you're fighting for your life,) another bad thing can happen, and if you have my luck, bad things happen all at once. Your gun can fail for a variety of reasons. If you have another, it's a redundant plan. Most people can draw a second gun faster than they can reload the first one. (That's why they call it a New York reload.)

Having said that, I don't carry one. Two guns means two sensitive items that must be tracked, two mechanical systems that can fail, and an extra layer to the plan which you will have to execute under fire.

RKRCPA said "I was not going to lose for lack of trying". I'm With him!!

If I try to carry too much ammo, my pants fall down!

Depends on the situation, for most, an empty, or even non-functional gun would suffice. The more ammo you have, the more situations you are prepared for.

It all depends on how paranoid a person is. You didn't always have a concealed carry weapon. You probably didn't always have a carry weapon of any type. Yet, you were able to keep yourself safe. Usually with your brain. Where to walk, when to walk, how to walk, and many other mental tools. And that is the key to a firearm. It is simply a tool. If you realize that no gun ever saved a person; just like no gun ever killed a person; and that it's the person holding the gun that decides the outcome, then you will have your answer. The problem with guns is similar to welfare recipients. Instead of using it as a tool, to HELP YOU to help yourself, some people throw away their responsibilities and rely on the program. In this case, they rely on the gun. When you rely on yourself instead of the gun, you'll realize that a 5-6 shot revolver or a 7 round semi-auto is more than enough for any non-LEO/military usage. A 2nd magazine could be argued for in case there is a magazine/feeding malfunction. (Trading out the magazine is the simplest and quickest fix for most malfunctions). But the person who relies on themselves and not the gun, will be able to handle a threat if their firearm doesn't function, is not available, is taken away, etc...

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Absolutely! I may collect guns and admire them as object of art at home, but when I carry one, it is nothing more than an insurance policy against (for most civilians) an exceedingly rare encounter.

How much insurance do you have on your car? Really?! That's it?!! Good heavens... what if your Toyota Tercel sideswipes a Lamborghini Murcielago? Or cause a bus full of school kids to swerve off a bridge? Or run 90mph into a substation and knock out power to half the city?

I doubt any of us carry a $500 million policy on our cars. Why? Because we are betting on us NOT needing it. PLUS we know we possess other means to avoid needing it. Like trying to drive safely... especially around school buses and Lamborghinis.

The firearm I carry is a "major medical" insurance policy of last resort. I carry enough to stop the most likely threat - an enccounter with a lone assailant. And I exercise every other means possible to avoid meeting Mr. Assailant and having to file a claim on him.

I ran a poll on this sort of thing about six months ago. It's at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473083

Short form: About one-third of respondents carried ~8 rounds (basically, the loaded gun without a reload). Another third carried ~15 rounds (a loaded wondernine without a reload, or a 1911/revolver and 1 reload). The rest were spread out.

The issue is, how much ammo are you willing to lug around? Especially for CCW? Wearing a gun and 3 15-round mags on your belt may sound macho, but it's a lot of weight and bulk. Hard to conceal.

I'm perfectly content to carry a 5-shot snubbie....and I don't even carry a reload.

But sometimes I find it a little more psychologically comforting to carry my Glock 27 with its 10 rounds.
Still no reload though.

It all depends on how paranoid a person is.

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I totally disagree. It depends on the individual. Work circumstances. Where one lives, etc. If you live or work in a crime-infested part of town with lots of gang activity you probably wish you had a Glock 17 instead of that 442 you had when you lived in a nicer part of town. The 442 may be perfect if you work from a home office. A pawn shop owner probably has a different need than an accountant. And so on.

And sometimes things are beyond our control. If a Reginald Denny had a hi-cap Glock in his cab or even a 1911 with a couple spare mags instead of just his truck-driving skills, he may have ended up making it out unscathed instead of having his brains scrambled.

I totally disagree. It depends on the individual. Work circumstances. Where one lives, etc. If you live or work in a crime-infested part of town with lots of gang activity you probably wish you had a Glock 17 instead of that 442 you had when you lived in a nicer part of town. The 442 may be perfect if you work from a home office. A pawn shop owner probably has a different need than an accountant. And so on.

And sometimes things are beyond our control. If a Reginald Denny had a hi-cap Glock in his cab or even a 1911 with a couple spare mags instead of just his truck-driving skills, he may have ended up making it out unscathed instead of having his brains scrambled.

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Even if Mr. Denny was well-armed, who's to say the gang bangers aren't? So he picks out a few of the attackers, then gets a rock thrown at him on the head. He might still end up lying on the street in the end.

The better approach for Mr. Denny would have been better situational awareness. Instead of packing a truck full of firepower, may be a little CB radio or police scanner would have been enough to keep him from ever having to find out how he would've faired against an angry mob - one way or another.

Yes I agree, it's individual risk management.

Most of us are far far more likely to get involved in a car wreck than an actual gun fight, yet... show of hands here... how many are packing 30+rds in their cars and minimum liability on your auto insurance?

Besides, do you really want to be spraying all them bullets in a gun fight? It is a well-documented fact - both in military and cilivian life - that one tends to spend more ammo if more is available. Every one of those bullets from your gun is going to hit something. Statistically - even for well-trained police personnel - that something is much more likely NOT to be the bad guy.

(Trading out the magazine is the simplest and quickest fix for most malfunctions).

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Once you are in a bad situation not really. It is the simplest and quickest fix for two very specific stoppages.

1) a double feed. You lock the slide, strip the mag, clear, reinsert a mag and chamber a round.

2) you fire to slide lock and your stoppage is cause by a lack of ammo.

Think about what the other types of malfunctions are. I'm not swapping mags for them.

I have to laugh at those that declare what is a sufficient amount of rounds for a non leo/military situation. As if there is some universal rule that applies to all situations. The fact is it depends. It depends on the situation. One person might go through their life and be fine never even having a round in the gun. Someone else might find themself in a situation in which everything goes wrong.

There is of course a difference between probable and plausible. I cannot tell you how many rounds you'll need. Nor can anyone else. There is no way to know. We might look at averages but what if your situation is not average? In sum you need to decide how many rounds you personally feel comfortable with.

I personally would carry at least one reload and them I would spend my time worrying about being able to run my gun well and be combat effective than whether I had the perfect number of rounds or trite caliber concerns.

MichaelK said:

But truly, as non LEO's, how many shots are actually exchanged/fired by civilians? How much ammo do you need to carry?

Well, that depends. With a lone attacker, maybe you'll need just one shot. Maybe even being accosted by a group of gang members, still just one shot. The others might simply run for their lives.

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... or rush you and hopefully you have combat sights on your gun!

As a handgun deer hunter/handgun competitor I've learned it isn't how many shots to take to get the job done . . . but that every shot matters, quickly.

Rare indeed is a second shot needed in the woods.

On the range? I won a special "steel challenge" match once at a tactical meet. The winner got the pot . . . and about 35 competitors chose to sign up for this "money match." The rules did NOT favor the revolver in this special match . . . so I decided to kick their tails with a revolver, just for fun AND for the challenge. After all, if I didn't pull it off, no one would be surprised. On the other hand, if I WON . . . I'd have plenty of good natured fun messing with the guys! Works either way!

The match:
1. Fastest time dropping EIGHTEEN steel plates and poppers, at distances of 10-40 yards, spread over a 90 degree arc wins the money.

2. Guns start UNLOADED, and in a pistol case.

3. ONE manditory reload, even if you choose to use a Glock 9mm with 33 round magazines designed for the Glock M18 machine pistols, to make it "fair."

4. ANY centerfire, iron-sighted handgun allowed.

You should have heard 'em howl when I came to the line with my chopped barrel, Model 25-2 revolver in .45ACP . . . along with a few loaded moon clips.

"How are you gonna win starting with an empty revolver, knowing you have to load THREE times IF you don't miss even once," someone asked.

"Well," I replied amused, "I'll have to take my time in a hurry!" I added that it would be embarrassing to get beat by a revolver! That made a lot of 'em lose (mentally) at that point. Under the stress they caved.

THE OTHER GUNS . . .

Everyone else except two people used trusty, competition-honed 1911 .45 Autos (with 10-round extended single stack magazines of course, or high cap. 1911 style autos and 13-14 round double stack mags . . . except for a couple of fellows who decided to pull out their Glock 17s and use the 33 round G18 magazines. One Glock shooter brought five magazines to the line . . . "just in case."

I waxed 'em all. I can reload my moon clipped Smith revolver as fast as I can my 1911s, and I've always done my best fast competition shooting with my S&W revolvers firing them double action.

Second place dropped his last plate over two seconds slower, using a single stack Colt 1911 and 10 round McCormack magazines.

DEAD LAST PLACE, with a DNF (Did Not Finish) was the guy with the five 33-round magazines. Under stress and trying to go too fast, he ejaculated over 150 rounds and still had a plate or two standing. Next to last place was the other Glock shooter. Both thought they could spray and pray their way to victory . . . and they learned otherwise.

In the field, in competition and on the streets, shot placement is everything when the chips are down.

WHAT DO I CARRY AS MY "ALWAYS" CCW GUN?

A five shot S&W Airweight J-frame revolver. Like I said, I do my very best shooting with my Smith revolvers. After so many years of practice, they point and shoot as an extension of my body. It is the blued one on bottom in this photo, with the big N-frame "snubbie" 25-2 I used that day on the field on top:

I'm in the same boat as S&Wfan, but less skilled .

This is an easy one for me: just carry a reliable weapon you shoot best and gives you the most confidence. Confidence is important; if you excude it with your body language, then there is at least a better chance that the thug(s) will simply wait for an oblivious / nervous one.

DA wheelgun and 1911s work best for me. As always, YMMV.

I carry a 9+1 Glock 27.

No extra mags.

Most shootings involve 1-3 shots, I figure 10 should be good enough.

BUT

I don't go through bad neighborhoods very often, never walk in town,etc. In the car I have the LCP as a BUG.

I don't know. The more you guys push the need for multiple magazines because of fear of autoloader jams, the more I think I should put my 1911 in the safe and stick with my revolver (only half joking).

If a Reginald Denny had a hi-cap Glock in his cab or even a 1911 with a couple spare mags instead of just his truck-driving skills, he may have ended up making it out unscathed instead of having his brains scrambled.

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Actually, if he had used his truck driving skills he would have been better off. The goons weren't capable of winning against a Mack truck.

On a different list the other day, an elderly handicapped woman was almost car jacked. She used her wits, started the car and floored it. Other than losing her purse, she came out shook up but otherwise unharmed.

Most of the time, a 9mm is no match for a 460 Hemi. ;-)

Having made it this far through life without having had to shoot anyone, I'm hoping I won't have to fire more than once, but if more shots are needed then whatever is in the gun should be enough. That's just for CCW, for HD, plenty o' ammo.

Even if Mr. Denny was well-armed, who's to say the gang bangers aren't?

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Your reasoning implies that it is pointless to carry a gun at all. After all, if you're being beaten to death and you produce a gun to fend off your attackers, they may end up shooting you. Why escalate the situation by producing a gun? Just take your beating like a man and don't risk being shot back at. Is it better to be killed by hammer blows to the head than risk being shot?

The better approach for Mr. Denny would have been better situational awareness.

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Situational awareness is important but sometimes events conspire against you beyond your control. Lady Luck can be a tramp sometimes. You don't know what's around the corner as you walk your date to the movie theater or you return to your car in the parking lot late at night. Or as in the early stages of the L.A. riots you drive into a traffic jam and moments later are pulled from your car. There was no warning..I doubt Mr. Denny in this example would have gotten warning on his CB and been able to turn his rig around ("Give me 40 acres....").

No one has total situational awareness...even if one is walking his/her date to the movies I doubt any of us here would have our date's hand in one hand and a police scanner in the other. Again, you seem to imply that a handgun for self defense is unnecessary if one can practice an almost telepathic state of situational awareness.

Post-Hurricane Andrew there was absolutely NO communications for us at ground zero. Society in that area was broken down. Thieves and other miscreants had their way and if you were not prepared you were a sheep waiting for slaughter.

Most of us are far far more likely to get involved in a car wreck than an actual gun fight, yet... show of hands here... how many are packing 30+rds in their cars and minimum liability on your auto insurance?

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While I kind of understand the point you are trying to make here it is an apples-to-oranges comparison. We carry guns and drive cars for totally different reasons. We have auto insurance in the event of an accident. Almost without exception people drive their cars to transport themselves from point A to point B, not to ram their vehicle with criminal intent into someone else's vehicle. We carry guns not to prevent accidents but protect ourselves from others who may try to do us intentional harm. If and when vehicular assault becomes epidemic and commonplace, I'm sure drivers would purchase additional insurance.

Besides, do you really want to be spraying all them bullets in a gun fight?

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Yes, if necessary. As mentioned by someone earlier, I've never heard anyone who used a gun in harm's way complain of having too much ammunition.

If you re-read my post earlier, my assertion is that every individual has unique circumstances that should dictate what type of handgun and how much ammo he/she should carry. Variables such as profession, living circumstances, routes to and from work, geography, etc. all factor in.

Actually, if he had used his truck driving skills he would have been better off. The goons weren't capable of winning against a Mack truck.

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While I agree with your general point, there was no place to floor it to. He was in the midst of traffic jam and the streets were not only filled with the criminals but also the general population as well. We don't know who was in Mr. Denny's path. There may have also been kids and curious onlookers. If so, he may have killed innocent people in an effort to escape.

I will always have 1 extra magazine at minimum even just 7 round mags for my 1911 is okay. Don't have to be 8 rounder. The extra magazine is insurance in case the you had malfunction with your other magazine. My standard carry is 2 extra magazine and a 200 lumens tactical light and tactical knife.