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Is all that ammo necessary?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by BP Hunter, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    I have been CCWing for the nearly a year now. I initially started out with a Taurus Model 85 .38cal snubbie. I then thought that I was being undergunned, carrying the smallest acceptable sized caliber self defense ammo and carrying only 5 shots with one reload. Then I bought a Springfield XD9 fullsized pistol. Now I felt a little more comfortable carrying a larger caliber but now with 16 rounds and one in the pipe. Then I thought, I wanted a man stopper. So I bought a Taurus PT 145, now carrying the formidable 45 caliber 10 +1.

    Us CCW's holders have to admit that we feel that we have to carry enough ammo or the largest caliber ammo possible to win in a gun fight. But truly, as non LEO's, how many shots are actually exchanged/fired by civilians? How much ammo do you need to carry?

    Yes, I shoot/"train" regularly. I "train" by trying to put 2 or 3 placement shots to paper plates 7-10 yards away as fast as possible. So if ever I need to use my gun, I am confident is placing my shots.
     
  2. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    But truly, as non LEO's, how many shots are actually exchanged/fired by civilians? How much ammo do you need to carry?

    Well, that depends. With a lone attacker, maybe you'll need just one shot. Maybe even being accosted by a group of gang members, still just one shot. The others might simply run for their lives.

    What if it's an enraged pitpull defending it's turf? I wouldn't count on a single .45 round to stop a big dog! That's where you want as much firepower as you can muster.
     
  3. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

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    its easy to conceal 2 spare magazine's.. now if they hold 7 or 19 thats another story.

    Like the gun you carry, id rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

    JOe
     
  4. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

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    Whats necessary for a hypothetical situation?

    You wont know till you are in the real situation.

    You want the gun that holds the most rounds, is the most concealable, and has the highest stopping power possible.

    End of the story, you gotta find your balance of those factors.

    Assuming of course you can shoot straight.

    For me is a CZ P01 in a bladetech IWB holster with 15 rounds of 9mm.

    I swayed more towards the "small and light enough to carry everyday" end of the scale as opposed to the "stopping power" end of it.


    Whats important is that you have that gun with you 24/7. Every day. A 3lb 1911 in the safe has 0% stopping power.
     
  5. 481

    481 Member

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    There you go. :)

    Pray for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    It is that easy.
     
  6. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    I like to have atleast 16 rounds in two mags. I can have as much as 51 or 52 rounds.

    I might only have to use 2 or 3, or only 1 in a gunfight. But I'd rather have far more than I need than not enough.
     
  7. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Something you never hear after a gunfight - "Dang, I wish I hadn't brought all that ammo!"
     
  8. WoofersInc

    WoofersInc Member

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    I carry a 1911 as my main CCW. I always have 2 spare mags with me. You never know when Mr. Murphy will pop up. Having the ability to go to a second mag for whatever reason always helps.
     
  9. rswartsell

    rswartsell Member

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    MichaelK,

    Don't want to hijack the thread, but 1 .45 acp solid HIT will knock the starch right out of 'ol slobberjaws pit bull (trust me). So you need at least 1 more round than the number of misses you throw.
     
  10. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    It's a fair enough question.

    I have carried different setups, everything from a Glock 17 with three magazines for a total of 52 rounds to my current setup of a 1911 with 25 total rounds. I am currently considering dropping the third magazine for a flashlight.

    There are a couple of different ways to look at this. One half of your brain says; "I'm not a cop, I only use my gun to get out of trouble, and I don't need to prepare to fight a war."

    On the other hand, you don't know what will happen to you. This is why we carry in the first place. You don't know if you will be facing one attacker or multiple attackers. In February of 2007 a shooter went on a rampage in a place I visit frequently in Salt Lake City, Trolley Square. An off-duty cop is credited with stopping him, he had his 1911, and fired until he locked empty. If there had been MORE than ONE bad guy, he would have been in big trouble.

    A handgun is what you use to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down in the first place. It's NEVER good enough. There comes a point where you should have grabbed your long gun because you are trying to make your handgun do something it wasn't designed for. As a civilian, all you are trying to do is get away from trouble, a cop has to take on more responsibility than that.

    A .45 ACP 1911 is what I shoot best. I carry two reloads because I want to be able to clear a malfunction. If I encounter a problem I can't solve with one reload in my 1911, it is unlikely that more reloads is going to help me either. Handguns aren't meant for sustained firefights, they are meant to be emergency lifesaving tools. As I put that third magazine in, I won't be thinking; "I really wish I had three more magazines for my pistol." I will be thinking, "I really wish I had my rifle right now."
     
  11. christcorp

    christcorp Member

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    It all depends on how paranoid a person is. You didn't always have a concealed carry weapon. You probably didn't always have a carry weapon of any type. Yet, you were able to keep yourself safe. Usually with your brain. Where to walk, when to walk, how to walk, and many other mental tools. And that is the key to a firearm. It is simply a tool. If you realize that no gun ever saved a person; just like no gun ever killed a person; and that it's the person holding the gun that decides the outcome, then you will have your answer. The problem with guns is similar to welfare recipients. Instead of using it as a tool, to HELP YOU to help yourself, some people throw away their responsibilities and rely on the program. In this case, they rely on the gun. When you rely on yourself instead of the gun, you'll realize that a 5-6 shot revolver or a 7 round semi-auto is more than enough for any non-LEO/military usage. A 2nd magazine could be argued for in case there is a magazine/feeding malfunction. (Trading out the magazine is the simplest and quickest fix for most malfunctions). But the person who relies on themselves and not the gun, will be able to handle a threat if their firearm doesn't function, is not available, is taken away, etc...

    I guess my next question is: What if you are in your home during a break in, and your gun is on the other side of the house. How would you defend yourself? Why is it any different than if your gun didn't function properly? Of course, there are some that carry a weapon on them 24/7 and will argue such a point. Paranoid? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe they prefer relying on the gun more than themselves. Similar to people who argue for the "Cocked and Locked" method of carrying their pistol. They don't trust themselves to be safe carrying a double action pistol/revolver, but for some reason they trust a mechanical safety or internal spring to be flawless.
     
  12. dom1104

    dom1104 Member

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    Anyone else getting the urge to say "Look Eye! Always looka eye!"

    I feel the Mr. Miyagi vibe from this guy :)
     
  13. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

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    also, you can't think of a spare mag as simply more ammo.

    What if the gun jams? drop the mag, insert new one and keep going.

    JOe
     
  14. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    Thank you for the very informative comments. I get it. The spare ammo is misfires and all.

    This was very nicely put. It's funny that I realize that I have been doing this the whole time until I find out through the forum I was doing the right thing.
     
  15. MikePGS

    MikePGS Member

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    The answer is, whatever you feel comfortable with. There is absolutely no way you could know what will be sufficient. Just showing a naa derringer might cause one guy to run away, whereas a shot to the kneecaps from your H&K Mark 23 that you carry on you along with four magazines every single moment even in the shower might not do the trick. So unless you send out a survey to every potential thug in the area (and get honest answers) as to what will be effective for warding them off you can only rely on what makes you feel comfortable.
     
  16. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    Well, a 9mm isn't a "larger caliber" than a .38 Special, but I know what you meant.

    I also know what you're talking about when it comes to second-guessing your choice of defensive concealed handgun. Just as you, my first CCW was a Taurus 85 and soon after, I switched to a 9mm (Kahr K9). I then switched to a Officer model 1911 and then back to the K9.

    On occasion, I'll carry a Bersa UC9 (13 +1) but still consider the K9 as my primary CCW handgun. It's only a 7 +1, but I feel adequately armed with it as I am proficient with it. I'm on my 12th year of CCW and I honestly believe 8 rounds of 9mm +P (plus spare 7 round magazine) will handle the vast majority of possible threats. I don't consider my handgun as my only defensive weapon, especially when I'm in the driver's seat of a 2-ton vehicle.
     
  17. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    You need to carry at least one reload for every gun you carry. If you reload and its not over you need to use those rounds to get out of wherever you are.
     
  18. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

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    a stick beats nothing.
    If the stick jams its cool to have a stick reload.

    as long as you bring a brain
    and a stick as a backup i assume u will be fine
    in 99,5% of cases.

    i dont see people wearing parachutes on passenger flights ....:)

    (in a high risk surrounding that wis different if course.
    ....)
     
  19. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    So, MP-7, you are ok with bringing a stick to a gunfight?
     
  20. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2010
  21. Guy de Loimbard

    Guy de Loimbard Member

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    My most often carried pistol is a CZ 82. I carry two spare mags with it. That's 37 rounds if I need it. My biggest reason for carrying all that though is that the two magazines sit opposite the gun on my belt and help the whole rig balance a lot better. Plus, should I have a problem with a magazine (spring-related or otherwise) then I have two backups. It's like having an extra set of batteries for a digital camera. Of course you can take a lot more pictures with the extras. But if your main set goes down and you have no spares, you're sunk.
     
  22. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    deadly paper plates

    My reply sounds cynical, and I don't intend it to be.

    Confidence shooting paper targets is not close enough to shooting to save your life.
    Don't be overconfident.

    You may need some extra ammo and other things too.
     
  23. Iggy

    Iggy Member

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    I never heard of a feller who had just been in a gun fight say, " Darn, I had way too much ammo!":evil:
     
  24. isthatajoke?

    isthatajoke? Member

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    It could be necessary. You just never know. The perp could be drugged up and not be deterred at first by the hits.
     
  25. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Well if mucho ammo is your desire they sell bandoliers or a tac-vest with lots of pockets.

    For me it's one extra mag.
     
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